For some reason, I seem to find myself quoted for @Nick Tamen's words. I was initially also puzzled by what LFF might stand for. All I could find was London Film Festival, but presumably it's Lesser Feasts and Fasts.
What though does "General C invention approval" mean? To those of us not in the know, that's gobbledygook.
If somebody only gets a commemoration, and especially if it's only a lesser commemoration, does that mean that the faithful are encouraged to remember them, but that if we seek the commemoratee's intercessions, we do so at our own risk? 😜 👺
For some reason, I seem to find myself quoted for @Nick Tamen's words. I was initially also puzzled by what LFF might stand for. All I could find was London Film Festival, but presumably it's Lesser Feasts and Fasts.
What though does "General C invention approval" mean? To those of us not in the know, that's gobbledygook.
Sorry! I didn’t catch that strange auto-correct. It should have been General Convention (of the Episcopal Church)—which some might say is still gobbledygook.
And yes, LFF is Lesser Feasts and Fasts, the full name of which was in the nested quote (misattributed to you) and in my earlier post.
Listening to Choral Evensong yesterday (from the BBC) and following along during the Psalms in my black Morocco-bound BCP, 1662 ... I noticed the absence of "Philip, Duke of Edinburgh" in the prayers for the royal family ... I cannot bring myself to deface my lovely little book by crossing the name out ...
Listening to Choral Evensong yesterday (from the BBC) and following along during the Psalms in my black Morocco-bound BCP, 1662 ... I noticed the absence of "Philip, Duke of Edinburgh" in the prayers for the royal family ... I cannot bring myself to deface my lovely little book by crossing the name out ...
I wouldn't, in my dark red Morocco-bound one. I imagine there are precentors or officiants who use an old BCP from the early 20th c. and know what to say there for the Royal Family, on the fly. On a related note, I've always appreciated that BCPs state the current names forthrightly and don't put a blank with "Insert monarch's name here." Long(er) live Queen Elizabeth.
I wouldn't, in my dark red Morocco-bound one. I imagine there are precentors or officiants who use an old BCP from the early 20th c. and know what to say there for the Royal Family, on the fly. On a related note, I've always appreciated that BCPs state the current names forthrightly and don't put a blank with "Insert monarch's name here." Long(er) live Queen Elizabeth.
I recall the anecdote of a young ordinand who had (perhaps inherited?) an old BCP and was heard to sing "God save the Kiwi" when taking his turn at leading morning prayer.
I daresay that any new edition of the BCP will duly omit HRH's name, but I guess the books in use at most churches which still have them will last for quite a while yet.
I expect one or two clergy will make a slip of the tongue, and continue to name the late Duke, but I doubt if God will mind.
I wouldn't, in my dark red Morocco-bound one. I imagine there are precentors or officiants who use an old BCP from the early 20th c. and know what to say there for the Royal Family, on the fly. On a related note, I've always appreciated that BCPs state the current names forthrightly and don't put a blank with "Insert monarch's name here." Long(er) live Queen Elizabeth.
I recall the anecdote of a young ordinand who had (perhaps inherited?) an old BCP and was heard to sing "God save the Kiwi" when taking his turn at leading morning prayer.
The quote you insert was not from me!!!!!! The only time we hear prayers for the royal family is if we go to choral evensongs, and they're in abeyance for the pandemic.
I wouldn't, in my dark red Morocco-bound one. I imagine there are precentors or officiants who use an old BCP from the early 20th c. and know what to say there for the Royal Family, on the fly. On a related note, I've always appreciated that BCPs state the current names forthrightly and don't put a blank with "Insert monarch's name here." Long(er) live Queen Elizabeth.
I recall the anecdote of a young ordinand who had (perhaps inherited?) an old BCP and was heard to sing "God save the Kiwi" when taking his turn at leading morning prayer.
The quote you insert was not from me!!!!!! The only time we hear prayers for the royal family is if we go to choral evensongs, and they're in abeyance for the pandemic.
Now that Christmas is drawing near, FatherInCharge is busy sending out newsletters etc. about forthcoming services and activities.
He has a habit of always referring to something he calls *Christmass* (that's not a typo), which I find intensely annoying, though it's hard to say exactly why. It does seem rather like an affectation, but YMMV.
Has anyone else come across this? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else in print.
Now that Christmas is drawing near, FatherInCharge is busy sending out newsletters etc. about forthcoming services and activities.
He has a habit of always referring to something he calls *Christmass* (that's not a typo), which I find intensely annoying, though it's hard to say exactly why. It does seem rather like an affectation, but YMMV.
Has anyone else come across this? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else in print.
It's very common in older liturgical books. The spelling seems to have fallen into disuse among the general population but it still pops up now and then in church circles.
@Cyprian
Indeed, as it has in the case of Our Place!
I'll check my 1828 edition of the Book of Common Prayer, but perhaps you mean rather older Bokes?
I'm not sure exactly which. Perhaps things like The English Missal, The English Ritual, The Monastic Diurnal, and things like the books of propers from Wantage and elsewhere, &c.
I'm on my way to Vespers so don't have access to my books at the moment but they would be some of the suspects, among others.
@Cyprian
Indeed, as it has in the case of Our Place!
I'll check my 1828 edition of the Book of Common Prayer, but perhaps you mean rather older Bokes?
I'm not sure exactly which. Perhaps things like The English Missal, The English Ritual, The Monastic Diurnal, and things like the books of propers from Wantage and elsewhere, &c.
I'm on my way to Vespers so don't have access to my books at the moment but they would be some of the suspects, among others.
Yes, I suspect the older High Church books would be likely. The 1828 edition of the BCP is not exactly High Church
Warren's Sarum Missal (1911) has The Nativity of Our Lord. Hours of Prayer ed. Trenholme (3rd ed. 1928) and Breviary Offices: Night Hours (1877) St Margaret's Coummunity, East Grinstead (founded by JM Neale) both have Christmas Day.
But Hours of Prayer has The Nativity of Christ as a sub-heading, and both it and Breviary Offices: Night Hours refer to the Octave of the Nativity.
[Apologies for double post. I missed the edit window.]
My question is about "Keeping Santa Claus in Christmas". When should He appear with the other persons at the cattle shed/birthing room, kneeling in worship by the manger full of (scratchy) hay?
Some have St. Santa Claus with Baby Jesus in the manger, Mary, Joseph, an angel or two, and some scruffy shepherds. Others think it more appropriate to add the plastic blow-up of St. S.C. when the Three Kings and camels arrive at the scene, with their gifts. If your church puts up a manger scene, indoors, near the altar, or outside the main entrance, which Liturgical Time would be best? Santa can't very well be on the long journey to Bethlehem, following the star, even with Rudolph pulling him (slowly) with the camel caravan. And after christmas Day he'd be exhausted!
So should it be Christmas Day , or Epiphany? A fund-raising project might raise a good bit of $$- A bumper sticker of course saying KEEP SANTA CLAUS IN CHRISTMAS
Simples. Feast day of St Nicholas is 6th December. Clearly Santa went to venerate the Christ child pre-birth, in Nazareth. So what you need is a heavily pregnant BVM figure, ready to depart for Bethlehem, visited by the chap in the red suit, possibly gifting calf's liver or whatever Our Lady was craving.
If your church puts up a manger scene, indoors, near the altar, or outside the main entrance, which Liturgical Time would be best?
I’m afraid my answer would be never. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Santa in a church nativity scene, and I can’t really think of a good reason for putting him there.
Well, of course there is no good reason for including Santa, but given the generally mixed-up idea people have of what Christmas is actually about, I see the point of @Pearl B4 Swine's rather whimsical question.
Some churches do, however, make something of the Feast of St Nicholas on 6th December, and try to show that there was an original Santa - AIUI, this is more common in Europe than in the UK.
My apologies if I was not sufficiently caffeinated to recognize whimsy.
Regarding St. Nicholas’ Day, we have friends whose parents were Dutch immigrants to Canada. They grew up with visits from St Nicholas on Dec. 6, as did their children here in North Carolina.
Yes, a former curate at our next-door parish (who is a Dutchman) brought his wife and family to our Patronal Festival one year.
The presiding Bishop wore red vestments, and so the youngest daughter was convinced that he was St Nicholas...
The Bishop was duly flattered when the little girl, on coming to the altar-rail for a blessing at Communion time, presented him with a vividly-coloured drawing of himself.
Some have St. Santa Claus with Baby Jesus in the manger, Mary, Joseph, an angel or two, and some scruffy shepherds. Others think it more appropriate to add the plastic blow-up of St. S.C. when the Three Kings and camels arrive at the scene, with their gifts.
You get bonus points if the man in the red suit shows up bearing gifts of Coca-Cola.
Although given that I've been to one church nativity play that has featured five BVMs, three baby Jesuses, and one Spiderman, ...
As a reminder that your Advent calendar will start on the 1st of December rather than the First Sunday of Advent, the feast of St Santa should be devoutly celebrated in each year on the 31st of November. It does not get transferred to any other day.
Nativity scenes are incomplete if The Great Pumpkin is missing...
(I know of one church whose Sacristan used to surreptitiously insert a small plastic Dinosaur into the Crib scene every year, just to annoy the Vicar. The kids loved it...)
Despite the nonsense of Brexit the UK is still in Europe. Not the EU, I grant, nor probably the UK for much longer, but European we are and European we will remain! And St Nick is very much honoured in his own shrine in Liverpool, as doubtless in many other places.
Despite the nonsense of Brexit the UK is still in Europe. Not the EU, I grant, nor probably the UK for much longer, but European we are and European we will remain! And St Nick is very much honoured in his own shrine in Liverpool, as doubtless in many other places.
Ooops....slip of the Finger there, I think - apologies. Yes, it was the EU that I meant (and should have written).
Some have St. Santa Claus with Baby Jesus in the manger, Mary, Joseph, an angel or two, and some scruffy shepherds. Others think it more appropriate to add the plastic blow-up of St. S.C. when the Three Kings and camels arrive at the scene, with their gifts.
You get bonus points if the man in the red suit shows up bearing gifts of Coca-Cola.
Although given that I've been to one church nativity play that has featured five BVMs, three baby Jesuses, and one Spiderman, ...
One village church of my acquaintance misplaced one of the nativity figures so when it came to it they were short a wise man and the BVM had a cloak held on with a safety pin and a surprising amount of facial hair for a young woman of marriageable age. The same church was also the scene of a small fire when the lights in the stable overheated and ignited the straw roof.
Nativity scenes are incomplete if The Great Pumpkin is missing...
(I know of one church whose Sacristan used to surreptitiously insert a small plastic Dinosaur into the Crib scene every year, just to annoy the Vicar. The kids loved it...)
Not sure whether this needs a thread of its own but I will start here. Alton Abbey make Rosa Mystica Incense and Madonna Incense but the whole future of Alton Abbey is under consideration. There may be need of a separate discussion on what the pandemic will mean for Anglican Religious orders. Already you need to buy from Ireland to get Rosa Mystica though a few boxes of Madonna are around. My question is therefore what are people planning to use instead of these two popular incenses?
Not sure whether this needs a thread of its own but I will start here. Alton Abbey make Rosa Mystica Incense and Madonna Incense but the whole future of Alton Abbey is under consideration. There may be need of a separate discussion on what the pandemic will mean for Anglican Religious orders. Already you need to buy from Ireland to get Rosa Mystica though a few boxes of Madonna are around. My question is therefore what are people planning to use instead of these two popular incenses?
Not only Anglican communities. The monks of Downside are leaving too.
Re incenses, I have been interested in trying natural resin blends for home use (ie a mix of pieces of different types of resin like frankincense, benzoin etc) for home use as they can be bought quite cheaply online nowadays. I'm not sure what the traceability is like though, but if any company got into supplying fairtrade resins they'd have no end of clients. DIY blends are surely cheaper for churches to make rather than buying from a monastery.
Interesting that it seems to be contemplative men's orders struggling here - the Anglican Franciscan male orders (which are apostolic) at least are thriving, but the contemplative Anglican women's orders plus Mucknell* at least in England seem to be doing better than other women's orders in the C of E. And have been on TV recently!
*for those who don't know, Mucknell Abbey is a mixed-gender monastic Benedictine community in the C of E
Not sure whether this needs a thread of its own but I will start here. Alton Abbey make Rosa Mystica Incense and Madonna Incense but the whole future of Alton Abbey is under consideration. There may be need of a separate discussion on what the pandemic will mean for Anglican Religious orders. Already you need to buy from Ireland to get Rosa Mystica though a few boxes of Madonna are around. My question is therefore what are people planning to use instead of these two popular incenses?
For feasts of the Mother of God, we use Purbeck Rose from the St Eadward Monastery in Brookwood. They do other varieties of rose incense too but this works for us. I'm thinking of using it for Holy Friday too, instead of the frankincense that we have been using throughout Lent.
For Paschaltide we shall switch to Flowers of Wessex.
Comments
What though does "General C invention approval" mean? To those of us not in the know, that's gobbledygook.
If somebody only gets a commemoration, and especially if it's only a lesser commemoration, does that mean that the faithful are encouraged to remember them, but that if we seek the commemoratee's intercessions, we do so at our own risk? 😜 👺
And yes, LFF is Lesser Feasts and Fasts, the full name of which was in the nested quote (misattributed to you) and in my earlier post.
I wouldn't, in my dark red Morocco-bound one. I imagine there are precentors or officiants who use an old BCP from the early 20th c. and know what to say there for the Royal Family, on the fly. On a related note, I've always appreciated that BCPs state the current names forthrightly and don't put a blank with "Insert monarch's name here." Long(er) live Queen Elizabeth.
I recall the anecdote of a young ordinand who had (perhaps inherited?) an old BCP and was heard to sing "God save the Kiwi" when taking his turn at leading morning prayer.
I expect one or two clergy will make a slip of the tongue, and continue to name the late Duke, but I doubt if God will mind.
The quote you insert was not from me!!!!!! The only time we hear prayers for the royal family is if we go to choral evensongs, and they're in abeyance for the pandemic.
My apologies; the perils of editing on a phone.
Now that Christmas is drawing near, FatherInCharge is busy sending out newsletters etc. about forthcoming services and activities.
He has a habit of always referring to something he calls *Christmass* (that's not a typo), which I find intensely annoying, though it's hard to say exactly why. It does seem rather like an affectation, but YMMV.
Has anyone else come across this? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else in print.
Come to think of it, I doubt if FInC has read them - his favourite author is Jane Austen...
It's very common in older liturgical books. The spelling seems to have fallen into disuse among the general population but it still pops up now and then in church circles.
Indeed, as it has in the case of Our Place!
I'll check my 1828 edition of the Book of Common Prayer, but perhaps you mean rather older Bokes?
I'm not sure exactly which. Perhaps things like The English Missal, The English Ritual, The Monastic Diurnal, and things like the books of propers from Wantage and elsewhere, &c.
I'm on my way to Vespers so don't have access to my books at the moment but they would be some of the suspects, among others.
Yes, I suspect the older High Church books would be likely. The 1828 edition of the BCP is not exactly High Church
Hours of Prayer ed. Trenholme (3rd ed. 1928) and Breviary Offices: Night Hours (1877) St Margaret's Coummunity, East Grinstead (founded by JM Neale) both have Christmas Day.
[Apologies for double post. I missed the edit window.]
Some have St. Santa Claus with Baby Jesus in the manger, Mary, Joseph, an angel or two, and some scruffy shepherds. Others think it more appropriate to add the plastic blow-up of St. S.C. when the Three Kings and camels arrive at the scene, with their gifts. If your church puts up a manger scene, indoors, near the altar, or outside the main entrance, which Liturgical Time would be best? Santa can't very well be on the long journey to Bethlehem, following the star, even with Rudolph pulling him (slowly) with the camel caravan. And after christmas Day he'd be exhausted!
So should it be Christmas Day , or Epiphany?
A fund-raising project might raise a good bit of $$- A bumper sticker of course saying KEEP SANTA CLAUS IN CHRISTMAS
Seriously, though, I wonder if any church has put a figure of St Santa in their crib/manger scene?
Sorry.
Some churches do, however, make something of the Feast of St Nicholas on 6th December, and try to show that there was an original Santa - AIUI, this is more common in Europe than in the UK.
Regarding St. Nicholas’ Day, we have friends whose parents were Dutch immigrants to Canada. They grew up with visits from St Nicholas on Dec. 6, as did their children here in North Carolina.
The presiding Bishop wore red vestments, and so the youngest daughter was convinced that he was St Nicholas...
The Bishop was duly flattered when the little girl, on coming to the altar-rail for a blessing at Communion time, presented him with a vividly-coloured drawing of himself.
You get bonus points if the man in the red suit shows up bearing gifts of Coca-Cola.
Although given that I've been to one church nativity play that has featured five BVMs, three baby Jesuses, and one Spiderman, ...
Nativity scenes are incomplete if The Great Pumpkin is missing...
(I know of one church whose Sacristan used to surreptitiously insert a small plastic Dinosaur into the Crib scene every year, just to annoy the Vicar. The kids loved it...)
Despite the nonsense of Brexit the UK is still in Europe. Not the EU, I grant, nor probably the UK for much longer, but European we are and European we will remain! And St Nick is very much honoured in his own shrine in Liverpool, as doubtless in many other places.
Ooops....slip of the Finger there, I think - apologies. Yes, it was the EU that I meant (and should have written).
One village church of my acquaintance misplaced one of the nativity figures so when it came to it they were short a wise man and the BVM had a cloak held on with a safety pin and a surprising amount of facial hair for a young woman of marriageable age. The same church was also the scene of a small fire when the lights in the stable overheated and ignited the straw roof.
You are giving me ideas.
I'm tempted...
Not only Anglican communities. The monks of Downside are leaving too.
Interesting that it seems to be contemplative men's orders struggling here - the Anglican Franciscan male orders (which are apostolic) at least are thriving, but the contemplative Anglican women's orders plus Mucknell* at least in England seem to be doing better than other women's orders in the C of E. And have been on TV recently!
*for those who don't know, Mucknell Abbey is a mixed-gender monastic Benedictine community in the C of E
AFAIK, Rosa Mystica is still available there (and by post, of course).
O dear. I'll let Madam Sacristan know...
For feasts of the Mother of God, we use Purbeck Rose from the St Eadward Monastery in Brookwood. They do other varieties of rose incense too but this works for us. I'm thinking of using it for Holy Friday too, instead of the frankincense that we have been using throughout Lent.
For Paschaltide we shall switch to Flowers of Wessex.