Heaven 2023: August book group: King Solomon's Carpet, by Barbara Vine
Our August read is King Solomon's Carpet, by Barbara Vine (pseudonym of Ruth Rendell, which she used when writing a particular sort of psychological thriller). This is about the London Underground and various characters who use it, and it won the CWA Gold Dagger for best crime novel of the year in 1991.
I am looking forward to reading this - I love Ruth Rendell's books, and particularly the ones she wrote as Barbara Vine, and I haven't read this one yet. I will post some questions on 20th August.
(I'm posting this a day early because I'm on my way for a short holiday in Wales and I don't know what the internet reception will be like there.)
I am looking forward to reading this - I love Ruth Rendell's books, and particularly the ones she wrote as Barbara Vine, and I haven't read this one yet. I will post some questions on 20th August.
(I'm posting this a day early because I'm on my way for a short holiday in Wales and I don't know what the internet reception will be like there.)
Comments
Thanks for the offer, but while I enjoy audiobooks for nonfiction, listening to novels on audio doesn't seem to work well with how my brain processes things. @Caissa , I hadn't thought of MUN library but will try that.
[tangent] I was a tad surprised at the librarian, who had never heard of Barbara Vine (still less that it was the pen name of Ruth Rendell) and didn't know how to spell "Solomon"
Ah, thank you, @Doublethink - I haven't started reading it yet (I'm planning to read it this coming week) and I didn't know about that. I also didn't know we were doing content warnings, but it's a good idea. I guess in future I should choose a book I've already read beforehand, so I know what warnings to give, or else to google and see. I am sorry if anyone has found the book upsetting.
I do actually get claustrophobia myself, but in real life, not from reading books. At least, if a book was making me feel claustrophobic, I think it would be different from real life because I would know it was a book, and that I could put the book down for a bit if it freaked me out. I think so, anyway - now I'm curious to read it and see. I usually really enjoy Barbara Vine, which is perhaps odd, as she writes about disturbed/repressed/traumatised characters, some of whom harm and kill people, but it looks like a few of us enjoy reading her, so it might be an interesting question to look at when I write the questions, to think about why we enjoy reading her.
By the way, I found it interesting, a while back, to read about Ruth Rendell's view of Agatha Christie. It's mentioned on the Wikipedia page about Rendell:
Also in this NY Times article, from 1995:
I personally like Agatha Christie, but I do see what Rendell is saying here, and I discovered Ruth Rendell's Barbara Vine books after having read lots of Agatha Christie, and it did feel like a step into something very different, and far more complex and believable, psychologically. To me the view of Sayers is also interesting, because, as with the view on Christie, it gives a glimpse into what Rendell herself valued, and is a kind of comparison point with how she wrote her books, what she focused on and why.
Anyway, I will post some questions on the 20th, after I've read this book, but I thought those links/quote might be interesting in the meantime.
So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to start again this evening from the beginning, and spend all day tomorrow reading it and try to finish it by tomorrow evening and then post some questions. The reread part should be fast reading at least. If people want to start discussing it before my questions, please go ahead, and feel free to write your own questions if you want.
As a first question, did anyone else find it confusing, or is it just me? Is it supposed to be confusing, as it's about the tube and the tube is confusing (to me, at least!)?
I also have returned my library copy so may get a few names confused in the discussion.
(By the way, I started reading it again, got all the characters straight in my mind this time, and then Jed is mentioned somewhere in the middle - who is Jed? That totally confused me. I still haven't worked out who he is. I should have got the Kindle book instead of a paperback, so I could have done a search for when he was first mentioned!)
Here are the questions.
1. Had you read any other Barbara Vine/Ruth Rendell books, and how did you feel this compared?
2. How did you find the descriptions of the Tube - did any of resonate with actual experiences of the Tube you’ve had?
3. It's been said that the main character of this novel is the Tube itself. Did you feel like the Tube was a character, and if so, what type of character? Did you like the character?
4. Of all the characters in the novel, were there any you found particularly interesting, or who evoked strong feelings in you? Were there any you particularly liked or disliked?
5. One review says that ‘Vine arouses a genuine fear that all that is normal is in danger of being lost.’ Did you experience anything like this when reading it? Were there any parts you found particularly horrifying or shocking, or which took you by complete surprise?
6. Vine often shows the perspectives of characters who would be looked at askance by many in society - outsiders, marginalised people, who are often breaking the law in various ways, or behaving in ways outside of usual social etiquette. Did you feel this gave you empathy for characters who in life you might want to keep a distance from, or did you feel antipathy towards them?
7. What were your overall thoughts and feelings about the book? Anything in particular strike you as interesting?
8. Did the end come as a surprise or had you predicted it?
9. Are there any authors who you find similar to Barbara Vine?
10. Add any questions of your own.
I'll answer as many questions as I can. The library is niggling at me for the book's return so I'll have to do any follow-up posts without having the copy in front of me.
1. Had you read any other Barbara Vine/Ruth Rendell books, and how did you feel this compared?
I haven't read any others. I was glad to have read this one, "psychological thriller" not being my preferred genre, but I don't feel inspired to read another Barbara Vine. I might try a Ruth Rendell sometime.
2. How did you find the descriptions of the Tube - did any of resonate with actual experiences of the Tube you’ve had?
I seldom travel on the Tube and am quite scared of it, finding it claustrophobic and bewildering. I found the description in the first chapter very uncomfortable. But I was interested in the historical extracts from Jarvis's book.
3. It's been said that the main character of this novel is the Tube itself. Did you feel like the Tube was a character, and if so, what type of character? Did you like the character?
The Tube certainly dominated the narrative but no, I can't say I liked it.
4. Of all the characters in the novel, were there any you found particularly interesting, or who evoked strong feelings in you? Were there any you particularly liked or disliked?
I felt pretty ambivalent about them all. That was part of the problem really - there was no one I particularly cared about.
5. One review says that ‘Vine arouses a genuine fear that all that is normal is in danger of being lost.’ Did you experience anything like this when reading it? Were there any parts you found particularly horrifying or shocking, or which took you by complete surprise?
I was pretty horrified by the accounts of the boys riding on the tops of the trains. I didn't get the sense of losing the normal - maybe I was missing something. I spent a fair bit of energy trying to keep on top of who was who.
6. Vine often shows the perspectives of characters who would be looked at askance by many in society - outsiders, marginalised people, who are often breaking the law in various ways, or behaving in ways outside of usual social etiquette. Did you feel this gave you empathy for characters who in life you might want to keep a distance from, or did you feel antipathy towards them?
I thought it was an interesting account of a diverse mash-mash of people, each with their own story. I wish I liked at least some of them better than I did.
8. Did the end come as a surprise or had you predicted it?
No, I didn't predict it - I'm notoriously bad at that - but it did kind of make sense of Axel's character and narrative. Very confusing, as has already been observed, that there are a lot of similar-sounding names and two Alices.
I've read a few, in fact I re-read A Judgement in Stone after reading this. That was a much easier book to keep track of who was who.
2. How did you find the descriptions of the Tube - did any of resonate with actual experiences of the Tube you’ve had?
I grew up in London, not too far from where this book was set, and was very familiar with the Bakerloo line as a teenager. Reading about it was rather nice for me, a remembrance of another time, though some of the things that happened in this story were horrific.
3. It's been said that the main character of this novel is the Tube itself. Did you feel like the Tube was a character, and if so, what type of character? Did you like the character?
As a teenager I thought different lines had different characters, and I remember finding Moorgate very eerie when I ended up there once, and that was before the horrible crash of 1975. I've always wanted to go on one of those tours of closed stations, but have never actually managed it yet.
4. Of all the characters in the novel, were there any you found particularly interesting, or who evoked strong feelings in you? Were there any you particularly liked or disliked?
I thought the story of Cecilia and Daphne was excellent, specially at the end when Cecilia's shock at realising who the father of her grandson really is causes her to have a stroke. I found Alice the musician a puzzling character. I couldn't quite get a grip on her back story, and though I thought her falling in lust with Axel was well done (and he was the sort of guy I'd have fallen for back in the day) I just couldn't work out her character. Tom, I thought, was in many ways the most convincing character in the book.
5. One review says that ‘Vine arouses a genuine fear that all that is normal is in danger of being lost.’ Did you experience anything like this when reading it? Were there any parts you found particularly horrifying or shocking, or which took you by complete surprise?
I think the fear about all that is normal being lost has probably more to do with her writing style that conveys something nasty is about to happen miles before it actually does.
6. Vine often shows the perspectives of characters who would be looked at askance by many in society - outsiders, marginalised people, who are often breaking the law in various ways, or behaving in ways outside of usual social etiquette. Did you feel this gave you empathy for characters who in life you might want to keep a distance from, or did you feel antipathy towards them?
I liked the whole idea of a disparate group of people living together and the way their stories entwined. I've known enough people who live like that to imagine really clearly what the household was like and how Cecilia and Daphne wouldn't understand it.
7. What were your overall thoughts and feelings about the book? Anything in particular strike you as interesting?
I really enjoyed it, though I don't think it hung together that well. The parts were better than the whole. Was Axel on a mission to destroy the tube because of what had happened to his sister, and what was his relationship to the guy that dressed up as a bear?
8. Did the end come as a surprise or had you predicted it?
I wondered if the woman at the beginning had any relevance to the story, I assumed all would be made clear in the end and it was.
9. Are there any authors who you find similar to Barbara Vine?
I've only read one Val McDermid, and that was for this book club. She seems to have a similar way with a set of characters.
10. Add any questions of your own.
This was one of those books where I felt like re-arranging the characters a bit and writing a rather different story, though I'm not quite sure what that story would be.
'Another excellent book from Barbara Vine, with many of her signature elements that I listed in my review of 'House of Stairs' namely an unusual household arrangement of quirky characters, and a sense of foreboding throughout. This one also has the unique concept of the main 'character' not being a person, but the London Underground. As chance would have it, although I rarely have cause to visit London, while I was reading this book I needed to spend a day there, using the Tube, and it certainly made the book come alive even more! It even prompted me to step inside the London Transport Museum Shop and look at some books on the history of the Underground ...almost expecting to see a title by Jarvis!
My only problem with this book was that there seemed to be insufficient background on what motivated the terrorist element in this tale - it was set during the era of the IRA activity, yet it was made clear that these people were not acting on behalf of the IRA, so I wanted to know what sort of cause or dogma prompted their activities - maybe it was mentioned and I missed it. Of course since the 7/7 bombings, this tale does seem a little dated, but as a product of its time its a great read.'
1. Had you read any other Barbara Vine/Ruth Rendell books, and how did you feel this compared?
This is my first! I'm not sure I'd be strongly tempted to pick up another.
2. How did you find the descriptions of the Tube - did any of resonate with actual experiences of the Tube you’ve had?
This was easily my favourite part of the book. As a person who lives in a city too small for a subway/metro/underground system, I love using them when I visit bigger cities. It's my favourite way to get around, and I pride myself on learning the subway map fairly quickly for any area I'm staying in that has one. London's Tube system is my favourite and the one I've visited most, so I loved both the scenes set on the Tube itself, and the bits of history/trivia included in the book.
The scene with the girl who died on the Tube at the beginning of the book was interesting to me because I'd never thought of a crowded subway car as evoking those kind of emotions and reactions, but once I was in her perspective I could see how it could be like that for someone, especially someone who'd never been on it before.
The kids riding on top of the cars and the subsequent tragedy was horrifying, but apparently this is a thing that does happen. A quick Google search reveals there've been a recent rash of "subway surfing" deaths in the New York system recently, the latest I could find being a 14-year-old named Jevon, whose name makes him sound like he'd fit right in in this book, poor kid.
4. Of all the characters in the novel, were there any you found particularly interesting, or who evoked strong feelings in you? Were there any you particularly liked or disliked?
The main feeling I had at the end of the book, and the main one that lingers with me now, is annoyance at Alice. I don't mind if a character is passive or helpless at the start of a book, but I'd like to see some growth and direction! Alice does one really bold, brave thing at the start of her story (whether you think it's right or wrong, it's still bold) in leaving her husband and baby. And then she just ... drifts. She leaves her family because she wants to get back to being serious about music, and then she ... doesn't do that. She falls in with Tom, becomes his girlfriend even though she's not that attracted either to him or to the kind of music he plays, puts her ambitions on the back burner, and then develops this mad passion for Axel, which just made no sense at all to me! Can't she do anything but fall in love and moon around after no-good men? And her grand finale is a nervous breakdown? I found everyone's endings in this story sad and discouraging, but Alice's was the worst.
5. One review says that ‘Vine arouses a genuine fear that all that is normal is in danger of being lost.’
I honestly do not know what this reviewer meant by this. I've read books that have made me feel this way, but this certainly wasn't one of them.
8. Did the end come as a surprise or had you predicted it?
I accidentally got slightly spoilered on the Goodreads page for the book as I caught a fleeting reference to bombing in the official description of the book, which I think is MUCH too much detail to put into a summary blurb! I quickly scrolled away before I could get further spoiled, but of course that hint was enough to make me very suspicious of Axel and the bear-man as soon as they appeared (and there was enough foreshadowing to make me suspicious even without that). I did enjoy finding the link to the opening story that gave Axel somewhat of a motivation. I didn't feel most of the characters had a lot of motive for the things they did, but say what you will about Axel at least he had purpose, intention, and a motive. I think I found the quotient of helpless drifters in this novel annoying, and sad at the end.
I enjoyed the multiple characters and points of view, enjoyed Celia and Daphne's relationship and also the two children, really liked the writing itself and the importance of the Tube to the story. But I really hated the aimlessness of the characters and the general feeling of hopelessness I felt at the ending. So it was a mixed bag for me -- very enjoyable reading experience in many ways but a bit of a bad aftertaste that, as I said above, wouldn't make me hurry to pick up another book by the same author.
This is my first. At times, I almost put the book up. It made me feel uneasy. Maybe that was what the author was shooting for in her readers.
2. How did you find the descriptions of the Tube - did any of resonate with actual experiences of the Tube you’ve had?
My only experience with subways is in Toronto and Montreal. The platform descriptions were very close to my memories of Toronto.
3. It's been said that the main character of this novel is the Tube itself. Did you feel like the Tube was a character, and if so, what type of character? Did you like the character?
The tube seemed heartless and cold. A place for dreams to go and die.
4. Of all the characters in the novel, were there any you found particularly interesting, or who evoked strong feelings in you? Were there any you particularly liked or disliked?
I disliked almost all of the deeply flawed characters. The only ones I liked were Celia and Daphne and the two children.
5. One review says that ‘Vine arouses a genuine fear that all that is normal is in danger of being lost.’
Very little felt normal in this book.
6 Vine often shows the perspectives of characters who would be looked at askance by many in society - outsiders, marginalised people, who are often breaking the law in various ways, or behaving in ways outside of usual social etiquette. Did you feel this gave you empathy for characters who in life you might want to keep a distance from, or did you feel antipathy towards them?
It could have worked. I have seen various groups of people work in other books. Instead , I felt antipathy for most of the charcters and empathy for very few. I wanted to feel empathy for characters that seemed broken but they just wouldn’t let me.
What were your overall thoughts and feelings about the book? Anything in particular strike you as interesting?
I am glad I read it. It dd bring out visceral emotions and feelings of discomfort.
8. Did the end come as a surprise or had you predicted it?
Most of the characters got their just desserts. The endings seemed fitting.
1. Had you read any other Barbara Vine/Ruth Rendell books, and how did you feel this compared?
I once watched an episode of the T.V. series based on Ruth Rendell's books and found it really upsetting. It involved the abuse and murder of a child for which a local man who had just got out of jail was blamed by the community. The policewoman investigating the case felt sorry for the man and became friendly with him. As a viewer I found myself also feeling sympathy for the man for the way his neighbours treated him. But in the end it turned out he was the murderer after all, and gave too specific details about the abuse. I felt so sick afterwards for believing the character and couldn't get what he did to the girl out of my mind, even though it was a fictional show. For that reason I was cautious reading this book. I actually looked up the basic plot beforehand and was prepared for one of the children to die while train surfing as I know Rendell does not hold back on harming child characters.
2. How did you find the descriptions of the Tube - did any of resonate with actual experiences of the Tube you’ve had?
As somebody who lived in London for 11 months in two stints, I loved the Tube. I don't drive and it was amazing having trains that came basically every 2 minutes. I lived on the Northern line - in Hendon and later in East Finchley, and never found the tube too crowded or claustrophobic. My first experience in London was taking the Tube from the airport to Holland Park and I felt right at home - as someone with no sense of direction (I probably have Developmental Topography Disorder) the tube maps, good signage and colour coding made it easy to get around and I never got lost for a change. My Australian friend did once have an episode where she fainted on the Tube train and hit her head so Alice's death (Axel's sister) and Cecilia's stroke did remind me of how scary that situation was and how I worried about why my friend fainted and if something worse could happen. My friend found out many years later she had a health issue related to her vagus nerve and last year was found to have a brain tumour that was thankfully treatable, but I don't think the tumour was related to the fainting episode.
I actually lived in London in 2004 and 2006 and the terrible terrorist attack on the Tube happened in 2005. However as someone who had repeated childhood nightmares of being blown up by a bomb I decided to go back to London in 2006 and surprisingly always felt safe. I think I just decided you have to live your life and not worry about the slight risk of dying in a terrorist attack. Knowing this book would have a bombing theme I watched a great video presentation by Gill Hicks, an Australian survivor of the 2005 attacks who has used the experience to work for peace in the world. This is another video of Gill Hicks as the one I watched was on a platform I subscribe to for Professional Development if you want a positive story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJoQj00RZHg
4. Of all the characters in the novel, were there any you found particularly interesting, or who evoked strong feelings in you? Were there any you particularly liked or disliked?
I really disliked the way Tom was so possessive of Alice (the housemate). I felt sympathetic for Alice despite her abandoning her baby and cheating on Tom which I again felt like I was manipulated into by the way Rendell portrayed her character. Most of the character were pretty unlikable except for Jervis, the children, Daphne and Cecilia and Jed. However I did wonder about Jed's abandoned child and how they coped with dad leaving. Peter seemed like a kind character too, but we saw very little of him. It frustrated me that he seemed to have HIV and everybody basically ignored it. At the time the book was written he may have been able to get treatment and survive, but it seemed everyone, including himself just gave up on him for dead.
7. What were your overall thoughts and feelings about the book? Anything in particular strike you as interesting?
I enjoyed the history of the Tube and was invested enough to know what became of the characters. I'm glad Jed's hawk survived and he realised having a fat hawk that couldn't fly or hunt didn't really matter for a pet hawk. I was a bit confused by the number of story lines and similar names. Sometimes I would read about Jed, thinking it was Jasper and vice-versa. I can't say I was too upset that Axel and Tom died, but I wanted to know if the house in the old school survived the accidental explosion set off by Tom. I also hoped Alice got her life together and reconnected with her baby once her mental health issues were treated.
Alice two I never got much of a grip on. She seemed to have so much going for her, but made bad choices all the time. I was left hoping a spell in a psychiatric hospital might have got her back on track.
Tom was also interesting. He blamed all his bad luck on the accident, which he thought changed him. He certainly had a dark, controlling impetuous side, which I guess may have been caused by the accident, though it might always have been there.