Whither Foot Washing

Again this year we will not have a foot washing during this evening's Holy Thursday liturgy.
Feet have not been washed at our place since 2019. There seems to be a mixed bag of feelings about it. What are yours?
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  • I never did like it - it always seemed to me to be a bit precious, but I understand that it's one of those things which mean more to the priest and the person being washed than to those merely looking on.

    We do it at Our Place, or at least attempt it - FatherinCharge was a bit worried earlier this week in case no-one volunteered - but I know of other local churches which have substituted hand washing. This seems a bit daft, as it's not really part of our (English) culture, whereas the washing of feet is at least recorded in the Gospel, and is a part of Jewish culture.

    I haven't checked, but IIRC the foot washing is optional in the C of E. I've just watched the Mass from the Old-Catholic Cathedral in Utrecht, and there was no foot washing. They did, however, convey the Blessed Sacrament in procession to Another Place just off-screen, ending with the stripping of the altars and several of the readings for the Watch.
  • TruronTruron Shipmate
    The place I played for tonight did it while the deacon read the Gospel which actually seemed appropriate. I admit to disliking it but I am old and English so no surprises there! Most places I have supplied for have not done it but rural parishes hasten slowly 😏
  • I've never seen or heard of it being done during the Gospel, but I can see how it might be appropriate (though it would have to be carefully timed - were 12 people taking part, or fewer?).

    Being also Old and English, I was brought up (as it were) with the 1662 BCP service, in which it has no place.

  • The_Riv wrote: »
    Again this year we will not have a foot washing during this evening's Holy Thursday liturgy.
    Feet have not been washed at our place since 2019. There seems to be a mixed bag of feelings about it. What are yours?

    I don't know if we're doing it, but I'm ushering at tonight's service, so I suppose I'll find out. We always used to, and then we had Covid, and now have a new priest, so there's plenty of scope for old habits to get changed.

    We'll certainly be processing the MBS to the chapel, and keeping watch until the service at noon tomorrow.

    I don't find foot washing particularly meaningful, so I don't think I really mind whether it happens or not.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Well, I'm half-old, and American, and I've never been much taken by it. As Parish Musician I was tasked to warn the front row of choristers (all sopranos, but not that it matters) that IF foot washing happened this year, THEY would be the ones in the south transept to have it done (the current priest has suggested a few times that six in the front row of the north transept and six in the front row of the south transept would be volun-tasked with participation). Thankfully, it has not come to pass.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    We do it every year. 12 people. While singing the Taize Ubi Caritas. A few times we have had teenagers washing their parents feet after theirs had been washed by the priest. A powerful message.
    Our lot would be disappointed if it didn't happen.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    I've seen someone of a Pentecostal background spring it on a group (not on maundy Thursday) and it seemed like a bit of a power play - "look how I'm like humble jesus ".
    We've done it at home in the past - acting out the Holy week stories with the twanglets.
    Done well in the right context it can certainly be a powerful thing I feel. Bit like @Gamma Gamaliel described forgiveness Sunday.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    As Jesus explicitly tells the disciples that as he, their Lord and Teacher, has washed your feet, they also should wash each other’s feet, it strikes me as inexcusable not to include this, however embarrassing some people might find it. Indeed, if people find it embarrassing, that's a pretty persuasive reason why it should be included.

    As for replacing it with hand washing, no. That is appalling. Just recollect who it was in the passion narrative publicly washed his hands, and why.

  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    I am a Baptist type in the US. We don't wash feet at church. I have only seen this done at a wedding. Once.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I’ve done the hand-washing thing a number of times, always with everyone washing someone else’s hands and having their own hands washed by someone else. I think it was done at our place tonight, but we’re out of town, so I can’t say for sure.

    I’ve at least sometimes heard it explained as in Jesus’s day, it was the feet that got dirty, but in our day it’s the hands that get dirty. That never quite made sense to me—hands got dirty in Jesus’s day, too, and they were ritually washed, not by a servant but by the person whose hands they were. It was feet that might be washed by a servant.

    I can get the Pilate-related objection, but my experience is that it doesn’t “read” that way at all. Pilate washed his own hands, not someone else’s.


  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited March 29
    We’ve done it, but only in contexts where everybody has the choice to be involved—a kind of “demo” thing just seems odd to me. But people, esp those who might be carrying trauma or something, should always have the freedom to opt out. And the senior pastor or leaders present ought to be doing the bulk of it IMHO.
    This year our service took a different form, with the pastor’s family cooking and serving dinner for everyone—and cleaning up of course. I think that probably got the service emphasis across as well as anything, though it doesn’t pick up the “forgive as I have forgiven you” but at all, which is a pity.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited March 29
    FWIW, you need to watch youth groups carefully with this sort of thing. We had a girl suffer an asthma attack after some bright spark decided to introduce perfume to the wash water, and guess who was the only adult present to take her to hospital? She was trying to persuade everyone NOT to, while her airways closed up… Never told my boss, but I was so glad I ignored him (“they’ll be all right”) and came along to watch in spite of him.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    Enoch wrote: »
    As for replacing it with hand washing, no. That is appalling. Just recollect who it was in the passion narrative publicly washed his hands, and why.

    That’s exactly what I thought when I read that
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    Kendel wrote: »
    I am a Baptist type in the US. We don't wash feet at church. I have only seen this done at a wedding. Once.

    Interesting. What was the significance of that?
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    My parish can't resist a ritual, especially personal, intimate acts of service. Footwashing of the twelve amidst great enthusiasm, dirge-like Marian hymns and hand-clapping. The electrical power came on halfway through and turned a mysterious lamp-lit chiaroscuro performance into something of a neon-bright shopping mall embarrassment.
  • When we've done it it's been in the round, and we've each (barring those who've opted out) washed the feet of the person next to us who then takes the jug, bowl and towel and washes the feet of the next person. Sometimes everyone is willing, other times not. I should note that we're only ever a small group at Maundy Thursday, 12 is probably the most we've had.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    I have been to services where this feet are washed by the minister, but only a few, two to maybe six people. I can see that 12 carries more symbolism but in a small church this is unlikely to be possible.
    My present church has handwashing. I have never been but a friend went last night so I will ask her what she made of it.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    As Jesus explicitly tells the disciples that as he, their Lord and Teacher, has washed your feet, they also should wash each other’s feet, it strikes me as inexcusable not to include this, however embarrassing some people might find it. Indeed, if people find it embarrassing, that's a pretty persuasive reason why it should be included.


    Agreed that embarrasment is kind of written into it. Look at Peter's reaction in the Gospel of John.
  • Is the foot-washing a mandatory part of the Roman Catholic liturgy?

    (You will hopefully note what I did there :wink: )
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Is the foot-washing a mandatory part of the Roman Catholic liturgy?

    (You will hopefully note what I did there :wink: )

    Haha, clever.
    No it isn't, but it has been done everywhere I have been. But we had a priest who had never done it before coming to us.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    It used to be only bishops and people like monarchs who did this
    (For many centuries now the monarchs in England have handed out money instead of washing feet, but they still carry little nosegays of sweet smelling flowers to counteract the smell of dirty feet).
    Since Vatican 2 it has become standard practice in most parishes.
    Although it was originally 12 men the group can be made up of both males and females now. There were about 300 people at our Maundy Thursday service yesterday evening but only eight people had their feet washed - by one priest and then dried by another.
  • Thank you, gentlemen both!
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    edited March 29
    Forthview wrote: »
    It used to be only bishops and people like monarchs who did this
    (For many centuries now the monarchs in England have handed out money instead of washing feet, but they still carry little nosegays of sweet smelling flowers to counteract the smell of dirty feet).
    Since Vatican 2 it has become standard practice in most parishes.
    Although it was originally 12 men the group can be made up of both males and females now. There were about 300 people at our Maundy Thursday service yesterday evening but only eight people had their feet washed - by one priest and then dried by another.

    I distinctly remember it happening in my pre Vat 2 youth. The music for the rite is traditional plainsong ... so it must go back a bit. I've just found d a bit of history that liturgy geeks might find interesting.
    https://unamsanctamcatholicam.com/2023/04/06/liturgical-history-of-the-mandatum/
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Pre Vatican 2 I only heard of it in cathedrals,but your history of the mandatum says that it was revived in the reforms of Holy Week liturgies of Pius XII.
    These would take some time to be implemented in some parishes.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    edited March 30
    Spike wrote: »
    Kendel wrote: »
    I am a Baptist type in the US. We don't wash feet at church. I have only seen this done at a wedding. Once.

    Interesting. What was the significance of that?

    Oooh. That was probably 40 years ago.

    It was probably a Baptist or other equally low brow (speaking as one) Protestant church. I think the bride and groom (the ones washing each other's feet) were supposed to be demonstrating mutual service and sacrifice. (It was a loooooong time ago.)
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Although I can see why and where it comes from, I'm wondering whether the requirement that 12 pre-arranged sets of feet are washed, no more and no less, might be a specifically RC thing. My CofE experience of the practice has been that if included, it has been offered to all who wish to receive it, with no insistence that anyone does or does not take part.

    I seem to recall there was a row a few years ago because in stead of washing the feet of some preselected church dignitaries, Pope Francis washed feet some of which were female and one pair at least of which might have been Moslem. It wasn't clear which of those two the liturgically pompous regarded as the bigger outrage.

  • cgichardcgichard Shipmate
    When I was a member of an Anglican church that did foot washing it was always awkward if I had forgotten not to wear tights.
  • ZappaZappa Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    My CofE experience of the practice has been that if included, it has been offered to all who wish to receive it, with no insistence that anyone does or does not take part

    that was certainly the case at our place, where I am quite new (second time round), but it has never been a well-attended service here.

    however I'll perservere with the British Lent, Holy Week and Easter (with a few Iona insertions) rites here, as they are very well received once punters get to them and they receive universal appreciative gasp-approval
  • Yes, LHWE was (and still is) a most useful resource - seemly, reverent, dignified, edifying etc. etc.

    From Other Places, I was interested to note that the Old Catholics omitted foot-washing at their Maundy Thursday service, as did the Swedish Lutherans at Uppsala Cathedral. The same denomination, however, did include it in the Mass at the University Church of St Ansgar, Uppsala.

    (FWIW, it's good to see Lutherans using incense, even if only on High Days and Holy Days).
  • Twangist summoned me from the abyss ...

    So here's my two-happ'orth.

    I've seen it done in ecumenical services and also once in a Baptist church. It can be very powerful and yes, it does have a raw and visceral element that does us Brits good sometimes.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    The number 12 for footwashing has an obvious symbolic significance.
    In the mid 1950s pope Pius XII revised the various rites of Holy Week.
    Although these changes were extensive they were overtaken a decade later by the further changes of Vatican 2. and they would not have made too many waves outside of the Roman Communion.
    Before these changes in the 1950s Mass on Maundy Thursday was celebrated in the morning and the rest of the day (for pious Catholics) was spent trying to visit at least seven 'altars of repose' in different churches.
    If the mandatum took place it would take place after Mass and after the Stripping of the altars and very often not directly in the church
    Pius XII changed this and introduced at the same time the possibility generally of evening Mass and revision of the fasting rules before receiving Communion.
    These changes proceeded over the next few years and included the washing of the feet after the Gospel of the Mass 'in coena Domini' (Lord's supper)

    The custom of the British monarchs distributing Maundy money separate from the Eucharist goes back to the time when the Mandatum was celebrated outside of Mass
  • CyprianCyprian Shipmate
    In our Western Orthodox rite, the Gospel on Holy Thursday is dramatised, in the style of the Passion reading the following day. The foot-washing takes place within this dramatised Gospel, which I find quite effective.

    At my parish, which is still relatively new, we do a little more of Holy Week each year but we haven't quite managed to work up the dramatised Holy Thursday Gospel or foot-washing yet (we just managed a partially dramatised Passion for Holy Friday this year), but you can see what the rite should look like in this video from one of our parishes in France.

    Perhaps one year...
  • AnselminaAnselmina Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    As Jesus explicitly tells the disciples that as he, their Lord and Teacher, has washed your feet, they also should wash each other’s feet, it strikes me as inexcusable not to include this, however embarrassing some people might find it. Indeed, if people find it embarrassing, that's a pretty persuasive reason why it should be included.

    As for replacing it with hand washing, no. That is appalling. Just recollect who it was in the passion narrative publicly washed his hands, and why.

    I'm guessing that Jesus had more than a narrowly literal application in mind when he asked his disciples to follow his example. He was a 'lord' not lording himself over others but serving. I would say that that was the point of the action. Not a temporary and physical removal of dirt from a few people's feet. He did what, for the time, would've been a relevant and an immediately relatable visual to explain his point. And I can't see a hand-washing replacement being 'appalling'. Priests - liturgically - wash their hands before and after every celebration of the Eucharist. A reflection of ritual cleanliness quite easy to relate to. Some even get servers to do it to them. Contextually, as these ablutions sandwich the sacrifice of Christ one could argue that this is much more akin to Pilate washing his hands as he sends Jesus off to the cross! But, as I say, we don't want to kill the Spirit of the point being made with the dead letter of literalism.

    I do recall the foot-washing thing being very powerful, when I first saw it done, a long time ago (CofE). Coming from a low church, such rituals were completely new to me, and it was powerful seeing scripture re-enacted in this way. I've included it from time to time in my own services. And I know how moving it can be. However, over the years it's become extremely difficult to a) find people willing to submit to it and b) certainly enough people to attend the service to number 12, if that were at all possible. Most people simply don't wish to take socks, tights, shoes etc off and expose their feet. Even if the water has been nicely warmed beforehand, and they have a comfortable seat! Some would be thrilled to participate, but are embarrassed by their corns, bunions, fungal nails etc and understandably don't wish to air their vulnerabilities in public.

    In practical terms, too, one has to prepare the foot-washee in advance, so that they can wear the right socks and footwear for easy removal, which immediately means that some have been chosen and others not. And those who turn up ad hoc and are not included have been known to get quite offended at not having a part to play in the demonstration! It's quite a minefield, in a culture far removed from the Biblical times of exercising the universal courtesy of washing off bare, sandalled feet of the dust of the road.

    Having said all that, I still dream of somehow incorporating it again on Maundy Thursday in a way which is both practical and not obviously exclusive or ridiculous.
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    Not a problem at our place when the total congregation did not number much more than twelve. We sat in the round, and no-one appeared discomfited by having to take one shoe and sock off. If anyone had, they would just have quietly opted out and nobody would raise an eyebrow. But I suppose the more formalised the rite, the more reluctant some people would be to take part.
  • angloid wrote: »
    Not a problem at our place when the total congregation did not number much more than twelve. We sat in the round, and no-one appeared discomfited by having to take one shoe and sock off. If anyone had, they would just have quietly opted out and nobody would raise an eyebrow. But I suppose the more formalised the rite, the more reluctant some people would be to take part.

    I think that's more-or-less what FatherInCharge does at Our Place, where the Maundy Thursday congregation just about gets to double figures. He does try to get people to volunteer beforehand but, not, I'm told, with much success. Accepting all this, he's happy with six willing people...

    The rather more ad hoc approach seems to me to be more in keeping with the actual Last Supper. One advantage of having a small congregation and a wide chancel (no choir stalls) is that it's easy for everyone to gather round the free-standing altar for the Eucharistic prayer, and for Communion.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited April 20
    Of course Jesus' footwashing, of people who probably wore sandals, got sweaty and had spent the day walking dusty roads, was quite a nasty job, possibly performed by the lowliest servant. The symbolism of the Master/Rabbi doing it was powerful, even shocking: churches have sanitised it.
  • We saw a similar shock long ago, when we had church communal meals and Mr. Lamb and I went about collecting people's plates, etc. and trash and disposing of them. Any number of people were upset and insisted we ought not be doing such a low job. We persisted, of course, and it made a huge turn-around in the attitudes of the congregation toward work and toward one another.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I see no sacramental value to foot washing. To Lutherans, it would be adiaphora, neither commanded nor forbidden. Remember Jesus ended up washing the feet of the disciples in response to their arguing who among them was the greatest. Instead of answering the question, Jesus takes a bowl of water and washing the feet the the disciples. This would have been the job of the lowest servant. Yes, it is humbling for the footwasher if he or she thinks they are above such tasks.

    So, the parish did not do it again. The church will go on. God is with us. We will not be defeated.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    <snip>Remember Jesus ended up washing the feet of the disciples in response to their arguing who among them was the greatest. Instead of answering the question, Jesus takes a bowl of water and washing the feet the the disciples.<snip>
    This may be so in the Gospel according to Gramps49, but it’s not in John’s Gospel.
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