The purple robe

DafydDafyd Hell Host
A question came up in conversation here, and I thought I'd put it to the group.

Mark and John both say that the Roman soldiers put a purple robe in Jesus along with the crown of thorns. Purple was of course a royal colour, because murex dye was extremely expensive. It seems unlikely that Roman soldiers would even have a murex dyed robe let alone use one to mock someone any more than they'd use an actual golden crown.
So were there other cheaper dyes they could have used which could be referred to by whatever Greek word Mark and John are using?

Matthew says the robe is scarlet. Does the Greek word overlap in colour, or is he tidying up?

Comments

  • The Greek word covers a range of red to purple that we don’t have an English equivalent for. It’s fascinating to see where different languages put their cutoff points on the spectrum.
  • KendelKendel Shipmate
    There is a fairly wide range of colors achievable through natural dyes that were available to NT folks. There's a brief article here.
    And as @Lamb Chopped mentioned, color names don't translate well from culture to culture.
    We also don't know the condition of the "robe" or the quantity. It could have been purchased 10 times over after having been weeded from the closet of a noble house and in ever worse condition each time it changed hands. Fabric is incredibly labor- intensive to produce by hand. It was used until there was nothing left to use.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited April 1
    There's a list of alleged natural purple dyes here: https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/make-natural-fabric-purple-dyes-2145994#:~:text=Blackberries&text=One of the strongest purple,garden that have no thorns., but I'll not swear to it that any of them stays purple for long. That's the trouble--not just getting the color, but getting one that will last in spite of sunshine, oxidation and washing.

    I rather suspect that the robe we're discussing was closer to red, as we'd call it, but the purple thing isn't completely out of possibility, as Herod the king apparently supplied "splendid clothing" for his own version of mocking, which may have taken place first before the Roman one:
    And Herod with his soldiers treated him with contempt and mocked him. Then, arraying him in splendid clothing, he sent him back to Pilate. (Luke 23:11)
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    There's a list of alleged natural purple dyes here: https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/make-natural-fabric-purple-dyes-2145994#:~:text=Blackberries&text=One of the strongest purple,garden that have no thorns., but I'll not swear to it that any of them stays purple for long. That's the trouble--not just getting the color, but getting one that will last in spite of sunshine, oxidation and washing.

    And is colourfast. You'd not want any shade of purple going through your washing.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Wash dark colours separately!
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    A very certain solution
  • jay_emmjay_emm Kerygmania Host
    I'm sure I've seen something about the royal red having some relationship to imperial purple.

    That is you'd expect it to be a reasonable charactiture (or for it's lack of purple to be a feature "hah, hah Galilean thinks turds are purple", if youve got spears you dont need a good punchline).

    It does occur to me that a cheap red stain is easy to obtain, and blood red may fit in the purple spectrum.

    Herod investing in a bad joke, works.

    I suppose you might have other cloths purpled on the wash.

    It would be a revisionist version of Jesus, but he could have 'legitimatly' owned purple (or been gifted by those trying to set him up)
  • I stumbled across this tonight, and thought of this thread.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Thanks for the link, @mark_in_manchester. It made me think of the history of naming the colour blue: the ancient Greeks did not have a term for blue (hence Homer's 'wine-dark sea'). If we think of a spectrum of visible light, blue lies between violet and cyan and it mystifies me that the colour purple could be recognised and named but not the related hues of sea or sky. Interesting link here.
  • I saw that purple fragment and it sure is pretty. I understand that there's a step in the dying process that you can change a bit, and you get teklet, the specific blue that the Jewish high priestly garments required? If I'm remembering correctly.

    There's an odd association in some cultures between blue and white. The Greek uses "glaukos", the source of English "glaucous". My husband keeps referring to my "light" eyes in a similar way (that is, blue; brown is apparently dark). Color history is weird.
Sign In or Register to comment.