The Rings of Saturn -- a holy relic, you say?!

The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
Six planets of our solar system will align on June 3. In honor of this spectacular event, I thought it'd be appropriate to make note of "De Praeputio Domini Nostri Jesu Christi Diatriba," theologian and Vatican Librarian Leo Allatius' sCHolArLY wORk that posited that Jesus' foreskin ascended along with him (albeit separately) and became the rings of Saturn. I'm not sure if that claim wins the prize for the craziest re: Christ's prepuce, but it's a great one (or at least, the largest).

It's a rabboni hole I never could have imagined I'd go down, but here we are. :lol: So if you happen to view June 3rd's magnificent celestial event, take a thought for Baby Jesus, a sharp stone, and the wondrous world of the theology of relics.

Comments

  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    Thanks for the heads up re planetary alignment.
    (But the rest of your post will require a bit of brain bleach I'm afraid).
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    So we should decorate with pictures of the planet Saturn on January 1? Good to know! 🪐

    And eat tortellini pasta, of course
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Hmm, Purg or Heaven ? Purg or Heaven - well Saturn is in the heavens ….

    Moving !

    Doublethink, Admin
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Thanks for the heads up re planetary alignment.
    (But the rest of your post will require a bit of brain bleach I'm afraid).

    The older I get, the more I appreciate astronomical events. I plan to get up early that morning and (weather permitting) take it in.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    A planetary alignment you say? That must be when archaeologists with dubious methods steal holy relics and tour various religious sites around the world to battle with statues that are brought to life and reforge the all-seeing eye.
  • I have to say that Saturn's rings made me think of a whole different body part...
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    So we should decorate with pictures of the planet Saturn on January 1? Good to know! 🪐

    And eat tortellini pasta, of course

    Well, hold on -- January 1 is the day the Solemnity of Mary is observed. I'm not sure we'd want to bring Our Lord & Savior's foreskin into things that day. I mean, I'm sure that *somewhere* there's a sect of Christianity doing just that. I just don't know what it is.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    So we should decorate with pictures of the planet Saturn on January 1? Good to know! 🪐

    And eat tortellini pasta, of course

    Calamari?
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Polo mints? Gravy rings? Spaghetti hoops?
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    The_Riv wrote: »
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    So we should decorate with pictures of the planet Saturn on January 1? Good to know! 🪐

    And eat tortellini pasta, of course

    Well, hold on -- January 1 is the day the Solemnity of Mary is observed. I'm not sure we'd want to bring Our Lord & Savior's foreskin into things that day. I mean, I'm sure that *somewhere* there's a sect of Christianity doing just that. I just don't know what it is.

    The traddy Trids still observe 01 Jan as the Feast of the Circumcision

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Thanks for the heads up

    Interesting choice of words.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited May 2024
    Re the Feast of the Circumcision--It's on the Lutheran calendar too (I end up side-eyeing it every year as I'm preparing materials).
  • This is the sort of erudite learning I’ve missed out on by not posting here for so long.
  • The_Riv wrote: »
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    So we should decorate with pictures of the planet Saturn on January 1? Good to know! 🪐

    And eat tortellini pasta, of course

    Well, hold on -- January 1 is the day the Solemnity of Mary is observed. I'm not sure we'd want to bring Our Lord & Savior's foreskin into things that day. I mean, I'm sure that *somewhere* there's a sect of Christianity doing just that. I just don't know what it is.

    It’s totally mainstream Christianity—it’s eight days after the Nativity, just as you’d expect. The Mary thing must have come later.

    Who was it on board used to refer to it as Brismas?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    The_Riv wrote: »
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    So we should decorate with pictures of the planet Saturn on January 1? Good to know! 🪐

    And eat tortellini pasta, of course

    Well, hold on -- January 1 is the day the Solemnity of Mary is observed. I'm not sure we'd want to bring Our Lord & Savior's foreskin into things that day. I mean, I'm sure that *somewhere* there's a sect of Christianity doing just that. I just don't know what it is.
    It’s totally mainstream Christianity—it’s eight days after the Nativity, just as you’d expect. The Mary thing must have come later.
    1969, I think. Mention of the circumcision was removed by the Vatican from the calendar in 1960.

  • Really! Never thought I'd see the day the LCMS would be more conservative than the RCs...
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    It’s totally mainstream Christianity—it’s eight days after the Nativity, just as you’d expect. The Mary thing must have come later.

    Who was it on board used to refer to it as Brismas?
    That was me.

    I quite enjoy replacing the greeting 'Happy New Year' with 'Happy Brismas'. I've also frequently, even when I'm not in Victor Meldrew mode, grumbled that New Year's Eve, has all the worst features of Christmas as habitually experienced, without any of the good bits.

    In the CofE, the 1st of January is the Circumcision, now 'the Naming and Circumcision of Jesus'. As far as I know, it has never been anything else.


  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I have to say that Saturn's rings made me think of a whole different body part...

    Uranus?
  • I have to say that Saturn's rings made me think of a whole different body part...

    Uranus?

    No need to be personal!
  • By the way, no-one seems to have mentioned the ultra-prescient Rabbi who performed the circumcision - or was it perhaps the Blessed Virgin herself who (filled with prophetic wossname) realised that the foreskin had to be preserved for future use?
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Circuumcision was not necessarily performed by a priest:usually by the mohel ( an old guy skilled in thevpratice of same).

    Some of my ( cultural as opposed to observant) Jewish colleagues made sure that the bris was done by the obstetrician before the baby boy left hospital with Mum usually before Day 8. This made sure that there was no familial fuss ( especially if Mum was a -God help us-shikse)
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Rubbish
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Re the Feast of the Circumcision--It's on the Lutheran calendar too (I end up side-eyeing it every year as I'm preparing materials).

    “Name of Jesus” is what’s listed on the ELCA Calendar for January 1.

    Based on the size of Saturn’s inner rings, Our Lord & Savior’s little fireman would have been around 75,000 miles in diameter.
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    I do not understand why the Vatican librarian chose to publish this.
  • HarryCH wrote: »
    I do not understand why the Vatican librarian chose to publish this.

    It was a long time ago - Leo Allatius died in 1669:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Allatius



  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    Yes, they call January 1 Feast of the Holy Name in the Episcopal Church now, but I prefer the older Feast of the Circumcision.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    The Episcopal Church is getting squeamish.
  • I note that the C of E retains and Circumcision in the title of the Feast, though I have a feeling this was not the case back in the days of Series 3 (the first official contemporary-language services).
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    The Episcopal Church is getting squeamish.

    I don't know what the issue could be any more. If we can speak openly about menstruation in our fast and modern times, I can't imagine why circumcisions/foreskins should be taboo in any way.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Menstruation is part of the natural order…
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    Sojourner wrote: »
    Menstruation is part of the natural order…

    And circumcision was commanded by God for the male Israelites, including when He Himself became one. I don't think we should be squeamish about that either. But this is arguably more Purgatorial than the amusing Saturn thing.
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    HarryCH wrote: »
    I do not understand why the Vatican librarian chose to publish this.

    It was a long time ago - Leo Allatius died in 1669:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Allatius



    I do notice that the article here says, emphasis mine:
    Outside scholarly circles Allatius is perhaps best known today for his De Praeputio Domini Nostri Jesu Christi Diatriba (Discourse on the Foreskin of Our Lord Jesus Christ), a minor essay mentioned in Fabricius's Bibliotheca Graeca (xiv. 17) as an unpublished work.[13] According to an unconfirmed nineteenth-century source,[14][15] its thesis is that the rings of Saturn (then-recently observed by telescope) are the prepuce of Jesus.

    So he may not actually have said this in the first place at all! :open_mouth:

  • Why spoil a good thread with facts?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    The_Riv wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    The Episcopal Church is getting squeamish.

    I don't know what the issue could be any more. If we can speak openly about menstruation in our fast and modern times, I can't imagine why circumcisions/foreskins should be taboo in any way.

    Exactly
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Yes, they call January 1 Feast of the Holy Name in the Episcopal Church now, but I prefer the older Feast of the Circumcision.

    Informally, Brismas
  • MamacitaMamacita Shipmate
    edited May 2024
    The_Riv wrote: »
    Based on the size of Saturn’s inner rings, Our Lord & Savior’s little fireman would have been around 75,000 miles in diameter.

    I'm not sure if it's the expression "little fireman" (a new one on me) or the diameter of same, but I can't stop laughing.
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    It took me a moment to figure out "little fireman." Ohhhh...
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    edited May 2024
    mousethief wrote: »
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Yes, they call January 1 Feast of the Holy Name in the Episcopal Church now, but I prefer the older Feast of the Circumcision.

    Informally, Brismas

    ROTFL!!!

    . . .

    We need carols!!
  • @ChastMastr

    Will this do?

    Or, for those of a more serious mien (and especially our Orthodox shipmates) perhaps this?
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    @ChastMastr

    Will this do?

    Or, for those of a more serious mien (and especially our Orthodox shipmates) perhaps this?

    Is the first one… um… real? (Hymns Modern and Ancient suggests parody, but after discovering “Royal Telephone” was a real, non-parodic hymn, I’m not going to assume…)

    (“Spread it out”?? Just how big was it? Mind you, still outdone by the rings of Saturn…)
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    I’m relieved—it does appear to be a parody site.

    Seriously, “Royal Telephone” is a real hymn, and has a jarring number of stanzas, just taking that metaphor and running with it for far too long.

    https://www.dioceseofwenchoster.co.uk/organ.htm

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    @ChastMastr

    Will this do?

    Or, for those of a more serious mien (and especially our Orthodox shipmates) perhaps this?

    The first one had me in disbelief. The second one, I could hear in my head. If it's in the first tone.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Mamacita wrote: »
    The_Riv wrote: »
    Based on the size of Saturn’s inner rings, Our Lord & Savior’s little fireman would have been around 75,000 miles in diameter.

    I'm not sure if it's the expression "little fireman" (a new one on me) or the diameter of same, but I can't stop laughing.

    Got that from a distinguished Kindergarten Teacher years ago. :lol:
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 2024
    I almost read that as *extinguished Kindergarten Teacher...*
    :lol:
  • SparrowSparrow Shipmate
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Thanks for the heads up re planetary alignment.
    (But the rest of your post will require a bit of brain bleach I'm afraid).

    A lot of hyperbole about this alignment. Most of them will be too faint to see with the naked eye, or so close to the sun as to be difficult to pick out. And the brightest and easiest to see, Venus, is not in the line up.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Have to admit that whenever I see this topic crop up to the top of 'Recent Discussions' there are a few seconds during which I think it's about the book by WG Sebald.
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    This whole thread is…



    Prepuceterous!

    :tongue:
  • GROAN!
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