Conundrums We All Face

Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
edited October 2024 in Purgatory
Mary Vole asked a question about the EU continuing to import Russian gas. If she turns on her heater, would she be supporting the Russian war effort.

I have a similar conundrum when it comes to using fossil fuels in my car or even heating my house. Am I adding to the CO2 causes of global warming?

Or am I contributing to the genocide of Palestinians and Lebanese when I pay taxes to my government which is supplying bombs to the IFD?

How do you resolve such questions?

Comments

  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I have got nothing profound. I reconcile it by conceding that I live in an imperfect world with many imperfect choices to be made.
  • It's quite likely that somewhere along the long and complex supply chain, there was child labour involved in the production of your laptop or mobile phone that you are using right now...*

    That really bothers me. It bothers me even more how powerless I feel about the lack of options to do something about it.

    AFZ

    *Unless you're using a desktop machine.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    These are things we do collectively. Our choices are therefore heavily constrained. I think all we can do is make the best individual choices we can in the circumstances and also support systemic changes.
  • I think one approach is to work to offset the negatives with deliberate positives in an attempt to find neutrality, or at least claw back some ground in neutrality’s direction.
  • the question is how to effect collective choices at all in a world where end-stage vulture capitalism atomises a world population of 10 billion or more, and makes all of those people conclude they are powerless against the power of corporations.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Mary Vole asked a question about the EU continuing to import Russian gas. If she turns on her heater, would she be supporting the Russian war effort?
    Hardly. And one is stuck with the suppliers there are in the market.
    I have a similar conundrum when it comes to using fossil fuels in my car or even heating my house. Am I adding to the CO2 causes of global warming?
    Possibly, but likewise. Note and take seriously what @Caissa and @Ruth have said.
    Or am I contributing to the genocide of Palestinians and Lebanese when I pay taxes to my government which is supplying bombs to the IFD?
    No. The government collects taxes off you whether you like it or not. You have no choice, neither in whether you pay them nor in what the government does with the money it collects off you.
    How do you resolve such questions?
    My advice would always be to concentrate on the moral issues over which you have direct agency, e.g. whether you love and care for your children, your neighbour - and your parents if still alive -, whether you are faithful to your spouse, whether you are honest etc. etc. etc. Unless you are fulfilling all those, it is a distraction to agonise about the high-minded and abstract sorts of issues you've mentioned. All too often such are the excuses people use to avoid addressing the things that should be taking priority in their lives.

  • Caissa wrote: »
    I have got nothing profound. I reconcile it by conceding that I live in an imperfect world with many imperfect choices to be made.
    Ruth wrote: »
    These are things we do collectively. Our choices are therefore heavily constrained. I think all we can do is make the best individual choices we can in the circumstances and also support systemic changes.
    Enoch wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Mary Vole asked a question about the EU continuing to import Russian gas. If she turns on her heater, would she be supporting the Russian war effort?
    Hardly. And one is stuck with the suppliers there are in the market.
    I have a similar conundrum when it comes to using fossil fuels in my car or even heating my house. Am I adding to the CO2 causes of global warming?
    Possibly, but likewise. Note and take seriously what @Caissa and @Ruth have said.
    Or am I contributing to the genocide of Palestinians and Lebanese when I pay taxes to my government which is supplying bombs to the IFD?
    No. The government collects taxes off you whether you like it or not. You have no choice, neither in whether you pay them nor in what the government does with the money it collects off you.
    How do you resolve such questions?
    My advice would always be to concentrate on the moral issues over which you have direct agency, e.g. whether you love and care for your children, your neighbour - and your parents if still alive -, whether you are faithful to your spouse, whether you are honest etc. etc. etc. Unless you are fulfilling all those, it is a distraction to agonise about the high-minded and abstract sorts of issues you've mentioned. All too often such are the excuses people use to avoid addressing the things that should be taking priority in their lives.

    Agreed!
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Mary Vole asked a question about the EU continuing to import Russian gas. If she turns on her heater, would she be supporting the Russian war effort.

    I have a similar conundrum when it comes to using fossil fuels in my car or even heating my house. Am I adding to the CO2 causes of global warming?
    Yes you are!!!!!
    Or am I contributing to the genocide of Palestinians and Lebanese when I pay taxes to my government which is supplying bombs to the IFD?
    No because there is no genocide. If genocide was the policy, it could have been achieved many months ago
    How do you resolve such questions?
    You can't. I have always had a policy of not worrying about things I cannot change
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited October 2024
    Discussing Isreal/Palestine goes in Epiphanies.

    Doublethink, Admin

    (For everyone’s reference, this is the legal definition of genocide.)
  • We are not powerless, although we might feel as if we are.

    If we can boycott an area of expenditure by choice - for me an example would be to only buy free range dairy and meat or to go without - then we are empowered in that way.

    We are empowered to make our voices known to those making decisions on the collective issues we care about through the ballot box and by lobbying and backing organisations who take up the cause, eg The Clewer Initiative which tackles modern day slavery.

    We are empowered to use less of those fossil fuels we believe are harmful, in any way we can so that we can take a bus or train, wear extra layers, etc.

    We are all empowered to demonstrate the values we hold dear, so that others might do the same.

    And we can keep on praying, because God can join up our collective prayers in extraordinary ways.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Raptor Eye wrote: »
    We are all empowered to demonstrate the values we hold dear, so that others might do the same.
    To a point, sure. But I'm going to keep paying my taxes, despite how much goes to stuff I abhor. Americans who support the military but don't want to pay for social programs are likewise paying for stuff they don't believe in. It's part of living in a society. The only way to be completely pure is to live completely alone. We'll never all agree on what a perfect society would look like, never mind achieve it.
    And we can keep on praying, because God can join up our collective prayers in extraordinary ways.
    If prayer makes you feel better or shores up your personal efforts, great. I doubt it does a damn thing for children in cobalt mines.
  • @Ruth said,
    If prayer makes you feel better or shores up your personal efforts, great. I doubt it does a damn thing for children in cobalt mines.

    As a quick side note rather than starting an unrelated side discussion, do you believe God responds to prayer at all, or just not in cases like this? (I personally believe He does, though I also believe we should try to make a difference with our actions in the world.)
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    I don't believe in God, in part because I don't see any reason to believe God does anything, including answer prayers. When I did believe in God, I thought prayer is for the benefit of the person praying, and I still think that. If everyone prayed or meditated or something along those lines, I think the world would be a better place because of how those things change the people who practice them.

    Is the real problem for the children and others mining cobalt in deeply dangerous conditions that not enough people are praying for them? Or that God doesn't care to answer these prayers? Or is it that they are poor people in a poor country, the Democratic Republic of Congo, nowhere near the center of power in their own country and even farther removed from the centers of global power?

    It makes me feel ever so slightly better about my gasoline-powered car, as it's the demand for electric vehicles that's driving the market for cobalt:
    https://earth.org/cobalt-mining/
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Ruth wrote: »

    It makes me feel ever so slightly better about my gasoline-powered car, as it's the demand for electric vehicles that's driving the market for cobalt:
    https://earth.org/cobalt-mining/

    Lithium iron phosphate batteries largely eliminate cobalt. Cobalt is, however, essential to refining petroleum.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Doublethink shared:
    (For everyone’s reference, this is the legal definition of genocide.)

    For history buff's the term was first coined by Raphael Lemkin. I remember reading his 1944 book as an undergraduate student in a seminar course on the Holocaust.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    It makes me feel ever so slightly better about my gasoline-powered car, as it's the demand for electric vehicles that's driving the market for cobalt:
    https://earth.org/cobalt-mining/
    Lithium iron phosphate batteries largely eliminate cobalt. Cobalt is, however, essential to refining petroleum.
    Ugh. Next time I wonder why people are putting their heads in the sand about something I know about, I'll think of this.
  • In heating your home, what alternatives do you have?
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    The heat in our 1952 apartment is natural gas, as are the stove and the water heater. It's standard Southern California post-war construction: no insulation and single-paned windows. Three-fourths of the year it doesn't matter that so many of us live in glorified shacks with plumbing. The other three months, most people in our situation just blast the cheap gas heat. Last January, the coldest month, for $27 we heated a two-bedroom apartment, cooked a lot, and took hot showers every day. Winter before last we tried not using the gas heat; despite using a new space heater, wearing sweaters, and using blankets on the sofa, we spent a lot of evenings feeling colder than we're willing to tolerate again.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    HarryCH wrote: »
    In heating your home, what alternatives do you have?

    When it's finished our house will have an air source heat pump, with the power consumption offset by 40(!) solar panels and managed with the aid of a battery. It will also, of course, have 6"+ of insulation all round. We're extremely fortunate to be able to do this, but it's the sort of setup most people in the UK will be needing to move towards.
  • Thank you. I am currently looking into solar panels. I don't claim to understand heat pumps.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    HarryCH wrote: »
    Thank you. I am currently looking into solar panels. I don't claim to understand heat pumps.

    Simply put they rely on the fact that if you compress air you raise its temperature and that heat can then be transferred to water by conduction. When the air is decompressed it is cooler than when it went in. The energy required to compress the air and pump it through a heat exchanger is a lot less than that required to heat the water directly so it's more efficient than conventional electric heating.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    edited October 2024
    A heat pump is just an air conditioner backwards. An air conditioner takes heat from inside your house and puts it outside, even though the outside is hotter. A heat pump takes heat from outside your house and puts it inside, even though the outside is cooler. The only difference is that in this case you want the heat inside instead of wanting to get rid of it.
  • HarryCH wrote: »
    Thank you. I am currently looking into solar panels. I don't claim to understand heat pumps.

    So if you have gas heating or resistive electric heating, then you are converting energy in the gas, or electricity directly to heat. With a heat pump, you are using the electricity that your heat pump uses to move heat from the outside (or from underground, depending on whether you have an air-source or ground-source heat pump) to the inside of your home. Because you're moving heat from a colder place to a hotter place, this takes energy to do - but not as much energy as directly creating the heat. Heat Pumps are characterized by a coefficient of performance (COP).

    The UK currently has energy price caps at 24.5 p per kWh for electricity and 6.24 p per kWh for natural gas.

    Burning gas for heat is >90% efficient (some heat escapes up the flue), so you're paying 6.93 p per usable kWh of heat.

    For a heat pump, if you achieve a COP of 4 (which is possible in reasonably mild weather), you'd be paying 6.125 p per usable kWh of heat. If you can make a substantial portion of that electricity through domestic generation, you can effectively spend less per kWh.

    But unless you're going all-in on domestic solar or wind, then a heat pump isn't a huge money saver. I suspect that the Feet household might not have natural gas available to it, however. Heating your home with a tanked-in supply of oil or propane is generally more expensive.

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