Unusual Holy Women and Men

ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
edited November 2024 in Heaven
Yesterday (here; still yesterday for some of you...), November 2, was the Orthodox Feast Day for St Gabriel Urgebadze the Fool for Christ of Georgia, who reposed in 1995. He is known among other things for burning an image of Lenin during a Communist parade in Tbilisi.

I think I learned about St Simeon the Stylite, who perched himself atop a pillar, on this site in its former incarnation many years ago. While not wanting to do so myself, the toilet situation keeps coming to mind(!), he and his fellow stylites awakened something within me that the church needs its characters, behaving in -- at times -- even in shocking ways, to communicate something.

Are their unusual acts of women or men in times past that have had an impact on you?

Comments

  • I share your appreciation of Saint Gabriel (Urgebadze). I first heard of him when visiting Georgia with a tour group in 2011, and twice since then - each time finding him better known and more ikons of him available. He was canonized in December 2012. As a visitor in Dublin, I was once offered a lift and noticed an ikon of Saint Gabriel (he's so instatly recognizable) in the car which led to an immediate rapport with the driver.

    Having also visited in Georgia the base of the Katskhi pillar, I've always assumed that stylites received food via a pulley system, and that waste went down in a bucket the same way. But I could well be wrong.

    Saint David of Thessaloniki is another favourite of mine. He lived for some years in an almond tree, and hence is known as a "dendrite".
  • The tour group wasn't Georgian Chant, was it? I did a tour with them in 2009. I'd like to go back. I didn't realise there were stylites there -- thank you for the Information (if the tour guides mentioned it I forgot!)

    That Dublin story is wonderful -- he is easily recognisable.

    Thank you for St David of Thessaloniki; I looked up his life and was encouraged.
  • cgichardcgichard Shipmate
    edited November 2024
    Yes, my first and third visits were with John Graham's Georgian Chant tours. The second with Kudu Travel. I think the Katskhi pillar was on my first visit, and we went there only by chance because of a deviation caused by a closed road. No stylite living up there now, but there's a monastery at the foot

    edited link

    jj-Helpful Heaven Host
  • Is this thread limited to canonized or beatified deceased individuals, or may we nominate living people?
  • Living is definitely fine.

    Oh, looks wonderful, cgichard. Somewhere to hope to visit should I return.
  • A few weeks ago I was following Sunday Mass from Salzburg cathedral and saw that unexpectedly the vestments were red and not green as I had expected. The reason was that the Mass was offered in honour of St Engelbert Kolland whose canonisation was taking place on that day in Rome.
    He was born in 1827 in Zell am Ziller,Tirol to parents who were 'evangelisch' (probably Lutheran). His parents left Tirol and went to Salzburg where for some reason the Prince Archbishop enrolled him in a prestigious local school. When he left school he entered the Franciscan Order and due to his excellent linguistic abilities he was sent to Damascus after his priestly ordination in 1851. He ministered to the Christian community there 'with Christian joy,' In 1860 there was a Druse uprising in Damascus where several Christians including Kolland were put to death in a particularly brutal manner.
    I had never before heard of the new Saint, but I won't now forget him and his witness.
  • I love this thread. 'Since we are surrounded by so great a crowd od witnesses .... Heb 12 vs 1)

    I would nominate my old landlady, Miss B, when I was a postgraduate student. Goodness, holyness and kindness personified. Being a member of the Plymouth Brethren she herselfwould have none of this Papist 'saint business', not realising she was one.

    This was more than fifty years ago but I stil miss her!
  • Am I the only one who keeps reading the thread title as “Unholy Women and Men”?

  • I want to mention Dr. Linda Sons. She was one of my teachers and for a brief period of time a colleague, and I regard her as one of the finest people I have known. I would be delighted to think I was half as good a person.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited November 2024
    Thank you for sharing the impact of those you knew.

    I came across St Olga of Alaska, the first female Orthodox saint in North America, and the first-ever Yup’ik saint, today (her feast day is November 10; she reposed in 1979). Accounts range from her record of healing and midwifery while alive to post-death appearances in dreams as a healer of trauma and abuse. Her story of a woman who helped others in their time of great need I found inspiring.
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Am I the only one who keeps reading the thread title as “Unholy Women and Men”?
    Happy to expand the thread to those... ;)
  • RockyRogerRockyRoger Shipmate
    edited November 2024
    'Am I the only one who keeps reading the thread title as “Unholy Women and Men?'

    .... 'Happy to expand the thread to those...'

    Oh b*gg*r, that includes me, then!
  • No, you are not!
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    When I first enquired about becoming a Catholic the priest I spoke to had just been to Swarthmore Hall, the Quaker centre in Cumbria. He was of the opinion that George Fox, if a Catholic, would have founded an order. I really like the idea of Saint George Fox and the Quakerites.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    :mrgreen:
  • Eamon Duffy's book ' Reformation divided', a book which I am reading just now has a last chapter entitled 'George Fox and the Reform of the Reformation' I look forward to reading it.
  • Sarasa wrote: »
    When I first enquired about becoming a Catholic the priest I spoke to had just been to Swarthmore Hall, the Quaker centre in Cumbria. He was of the opinion that George Fox, if a Catholic, would have founded an order. I really like the idea of Saint George Fox and the Quakerites.

    Would the estimable Captain 'I may be some time' Laurence Oates have been a member?
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Forthview wrote: »
    Eamon Duffy's book ' Reformation divided', a book which I am reading just now has a last chapter entitled 'George Fox and the Reform of the Reformation' I look forward to reading it.

    I like Duffy' work. I'll have to add that book to my increasing 'to read' pile.
  • Non canonised holy people that continue to have an effect on me:

    Frs Mackonochie, Tooth, Darwell Stone, Freddie Hood, and various other deceased Anglo-catholic luminaries. As examples of living. From the other side of the Tiber Fr Ronald Knox continues to be an inspiration. They all qualify as at the very least ‘unusual’

    On a slightly different tack Rev Edwin Boston.

  • I’d also like to nominate the late Sir John Betjeman, who was absolutely no saint, but was I think holy. And wholly unusual.
  • Today in the RC church is the commemoration of St Josaphat,a Byzantine rite Catholic monk and bishop, based in modern Ukraine but then within the Polish -Lithuanian commonwealth. He came from an Orthodox family but became a Catholic and tried to reconcile both Orthodox and Calvinists and bring them to Catholicism. He was murdered (or martyred) by enraged Orthodox.
    From a Catholic point of view he is a canonised Saint but some Orthodox will see him as a 'soul-snatcher'.
    We had at one time a very anti-Catholic Orthodox poster who could only see Josaphat as an evil man who received his just punishment in having his head split with an axe.
    There would have been a good number of Calvinists in that area at that time but I have no idea what opinion modern Calvinists have of Josaphat.
    What intrigues me about this holy/unholy man is that we can all read his story but come to very different conclusions about its significance.
  • Sarasa wrote: »
    When I first enquired about becoming a Catholic the priest I spoke to had just been to Swarthmore Hall, the Quaker centre in Cumbria. He was of the opinion that George Fox, if a Catholic, would have founded an order. I really like the idea of Saint George Fox and the Quakerites.

    He is commemorated on January 13th by the Church of England... which, no doubt, would have annoyed him considerably!
  • @Forthview I'm sorry to hear that. Some Orthodox appear more anti-RC than the most 'It.is.an.abomin.ation!' Ulster Protestant.

    I've heard the thing about George Fox founding a religious order had he been RC, before and yes, has he lived in France, Spain or Italy I think that would have been likely.

    I've heard the same thing said about William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army.

    Thing is, you could probably say the same sort of thing about any founder or initiator of a movement within Protestantism, be it the Wesley's, Count Zizendorf or whoever else.
  • I'd like to nominate a friend of mine, E_. (There is a v.v.small chance he might read here, so I'll keep him anonymous). He is an inspiration to me and my kids. He's a retired RC man who runs an online prayer group of which I am a member. In our family we sometimes joke 'WWED' which is not blasphemous because we mean it - but the fact we mean it, means E_ would regard it as blasphemous. I have been so blessed to know him, and his wife too.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    Thinking of people who may have formed religious orders if things had been slightly different, Harry Turtledove wrote some short stories early in his career in which Mohammed had become a Christian saint rather than the founder of Islam. The collection is called Agent of Byzantium.
  • Similarly, our deceased friend E, a lovely Catholic lady with a real ministry of prayer and hospitality who ministered to a number of university students in 70/80s
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited April 12
    Thank you, all.


    The life of St Mary of Egypt, someone who would not accept payment for sex she was so obsessed with it, and repented and lived a life in the desert, is read during Great Lent in the Orthodox church. I am not sure if I should smile at this, but this part of her life always makes me smile [she has met a priest, Zosima, in the desert]:
    ...Then she turned to Zosima and said: "Why did you wish, Abba Zosima, to see a sinful woman? What do you wish to hear or learn from me, you who have not shrunk from such great struggles?" Zosima threw himself on the ground and asked for her blessing. She likewise bowed down before him. And thus they lay on the ground prostrate asking for each other's blessing. And one word alone could be heard from both: "Bless me!" After a long while the woman said to Zosima: "Abba Zosima, it is you who must give blessing and pray. You are dignified by the order of priesthood and for many years you have been standing before the holy altar and offering the sacrifice of the Divine Mysteries." This flung Zosima into even greater terror.
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    I want to introduce to Jack

    Jack is probably the reason I have remained a Christian.

    When I was a teenager, and rebelling in the only way I could, I took to falling out with ministers. Well having deeply emotional theological arguments with anyone who gave me space and that was often clergy. That was chiefly my dad, and yes I was testing boundaries. However, I would argue with others if they were available. After one particularly difficult argument it was decided that it was time that we had a membership class. Most of the classes were led by one particular minister which was OK but not particularly good. Then one session was led by Jack, the Baptist minister on the team. I as a very edgy teen felt welcomed.

    However, Jack's remarkableness does not stop there. Jack was a minister despite/because he was one of the soldiers who "liberated" concentration camps. He also was for many years a volunteer chaplain at Christie's Hospital in Manchester. When he died about a decade later a then volunteer chaplain said that Christie's would have done anything for Jack. That does not sound much, until you know Jack died of cancer and must have deliberately kept his diagnosis from Christie's for he was treated at another local hospital. In other words he chose to be an ordinary patient when he could have been an extraordinary one.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    A recent American Church Historian that I would nominate is Martin Marty. He was an outspoken critic of the American suburban church. He was the editor in chief of The Christian Century for a number of years. He was a professor of history at Concordia Seminary when I first started there, but at the time of the split in Missouri Synod he moved on to the University of Chicago School of Theology.

    I never did take a class from him, but I heard him at a number of presentations. He once came to Pullman WA for the Roger William Symposium at Washington State University sponsored by the Ecumenical Ministry.

    A kind man. It is said he never forgot a face. He always wore a bowtie.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Jack sounds wonderful. He was before my time but a church I went to had a Jack previously who was instrumental in the lives of teenagers also.

    Gramps: might I ask what he was critical of, if it is not too much to ask? A bowtie is a distinguishing feature! I recall some presenters too with fondness.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Gramps: might I ask what he was critical of, if it is not too much to ask? A bowtie is a distinguishing feature! I recall some presenters too with fondness.

    Well, he started writing about it in the 50's. At the time, he was critical of how the suburban church was acting as the chaplain to the culture of the day. Later, when he started studying fundamentalist churches, he found them doing the same thing only more reactionary. He said the problem was we were not willing to address societal issues in positive ways.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Thank you.
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