When I was working regularly, Sundays were much the same as weekdays - jacket, shirt, tie, slacks and shiny shoes, because it had always been that way. Then the new minister came and nothing changed for a while, but then all of a sudden we became self-consciously trendy as he studied How to Be a Successful Church in Today's Society. (The place has been full on Sundays since then). The good bit was that I finally understood the complete and utter uselessness of ties and the benefits of being comfortable during worship. And did Jesus wear a tie? According to my childhood illustrated KJV, he did not. I donated the last of the very few suits I have ever owned to a charity shop some years ago, and if I want to dress up for a special church event I'll wear my kilt, usually with a cravat rather than a tie.
Now, post-Covid, the choir (for Reasons that I might start another thread about) no longer wears robes.
Say what?!
Short version: The robes we had (not cassock and surplice) were showing wear, so in the fall of 2019, we decided to replace them. In January or February 2020, we ordered new robes (alb-style), with the plan to debut them on Easter. (And the old robes found a new home.) Then Covid happened. Meanwhile, the robes arrived, and the material wasn’t what we were expecting. We sent them back and figured we’d deal with it post-Covid.
Then we finally got to being able to have in-person services again. Because of distancing needs, the choir couldn’t all sit in the choir stalls, and we didn’t have robes. So, we had much of the choir sitting in the congregation, no robes, and moving to the chancel steps for anthems.
Turned out people—choir and congregation—liked all of that. And the choir has grown.
There’s more to it, including a question I might ask in a different thread. But that’s the gist.
On a work trip to China (i.e. well away from the moderating wifely influence) my husband bought a scarlet cotton shirt, on which was printed in black a fire breathing dragon. The dragon coils round the hem, with flames covering the rest of the shirt. If he wears this tucked into his trousers the dragon is hidden, leaving the flames emanating from the dragon visible. It is the perfect shirt for Pentecost.
I have noticed that many people struggle with wearing ties. I have loads of ties, including cricket tie which I very rarely wear.
There again, I never really go anywhere
We have an English as a Second Language program here at the University. As part of their last assignment, they are to dress up and give a public speech on a topic of their choice. Many Middle Eastern students had never worn a tie. I used to help them learn.
There was one time, though, one of the Arab students decided he was not going to wear Western clothing. He decided to use a robe that he would have used to go to mosque. All of the sudden all the Middle Eastern students started doing the same thing, and I was out of a job teaching them how to knot a tie.
@The_Riv we also have an African family coming to worship. Invariably they are often the smartest dressed people at worship. As you say, very bold colors.
Now, post-Covid, the choir (for Reasons that I might start another thread about) no longer wears robes.
Say what?!
Short version: The robes we had (not cassock and surplice) were showing wear, so in the fall of 2019, we decided to replace them. In January or February 2020, we ordered new robes (alb-style), with the plan to debut them on Easter. (And the old robes found a new home.) Then Covid happened. Meanwhile, the robes arrived, and the material wasn’t what we were expecting. We sent them back and figured we’d deal with it post-Covid.
Then we finally got to being able to have in-person services again. Because of distancing needs, the choir couldn’t all sit in the choir stalls, and we didn’t have robes. So, we had much of the choir sitting in the congregation, no robes, and moving to the chancel steps for anthems.
Turned out people—choir and congregation—liked all of that. And the choir has grown.
There’s more to it, including a question I might ask in a different thread. But that’s the gist.
That’s interesting, @Nick Tamen, but it doesn’t surprise me. I can’t imagine a church choir situation today in which things would move toward increased formality or something more historically traditional.
I encourage you to share your other thought in a separate thread!
Most people here must either live in tropical climes or attend rich churches that can afford proper heating. The temperature in our church might reach 15+ Celsius in the summer (unless we have a prolonged heatwave to allow the building to warm up), and in the winter it depends on the reliability of the boiler – a couple of years ago it refused to co-operate and we worshipped in permafrost. So in that context, plenty of layers; usually including an overcoat or, if I am presiding, its liturgical equivalent.
Ahem. As some US posters have reminded us, not everyone here lives in the UK.
I must admit a mere 4.5C seems a rather low threshold to consider turning the heat on ... 😉.
Do any churches in California need heating at all? 😉
No wonder they all wander around in shorts and T-shirts if they think that's cold. 🤔 No, seriously, it's all relative of course.
Not every church goer here in the UK worships in a Victorian barn or a medieval building. And it gets a lot, lot colder in Germany and central and Eastern Europe than it does here. Who was the Shipmate from Sasketchewan? They described temperatures that were unimaginably cold.
There have been a few posts here along the lines of, 'I realised Jesus didn't want me to dress up,' or 'I realised that Jesus didn't wear a tie ...'
Well, no.
But he wouldn't have worn trousers, sneakers, trainers (daps, pumps, whatever such things are called in your regional vernacular), socks, suits, doublet and hose, a Cossack uniform, jeans, shorts, sports gear etc etc etc either.
Let's not get too literal about these things.
There's a bloke around here everyone calls 'Jogging Jesus.'
Why?
Because he jogs and he looks like Jesus (as he is conventionally portrayed in western art and cinematography).
This isn't an issue of 'what would Jesus wear?' I've heard it claimed that the seamless robe for which his captors cast lots was a serious piece of kit, rather like a well-tailored suit.
Now, I'm not suggesting that Christ walked around in the equivalent of Saville Row suits but it wouldn't appear he went round in rags either. Otherwise nobody would have run a lottery for his clothing.
No, what I'm suggesting is what others have suggested, that we dress appropriately for whatever context we find ourselves in - insofar as we are able.
I'm off to the midweek Liturgy today. There won't be many there and nobody would notice what I wear. But I won't wear my scruffiest clothes but won't go in a suit and tie either.
I have noticed that many people struggle with wearing ties. I have loads of ties, including cricket tie which I very rarely wear.
There again, I never really go anywhere
We have an English as a Second Language program here at the University. As part of their last assignment, they are to dress up and give a public speech on a topic of their choice. Many Middle Eastern students had never worn a tie. I used to help them learn.
There was one time, though, one of the Arab students decided he was not going to wear Western clothing. He decided to use a robe that he would have used to go to mosque. All of the sudden all the Middle Eastern students started doing the same thing, and I was out of a job teaching them how to knot a tie.
@The_Riv we also have an African family coming to worship. Invariably they are often the smartest dressed people at worship. As you say, very bold colors.
The point is that they have made the effort.
As for ties, I am never impressed when the top button is clearly visible above the top of the tie.
One of the major advantages of being in the choir is that you never have to worry about what to wear to church because everything except your shoes is hidden by your robe.
The other one is being first in the queue for the after-service coffee...
Not sure how you manage that: by the time we have disrobed ( and chatted in the choir vestry ) we would be the last to get coffee, all the chairs would be taken and the tea would be stewed. I know, poor excuses for being somewhat anti-social.
I have noticed that many people struggle with wearing ties. I have loads of ties, including cricket tie which I very rarely wear.
There again, I never really go anywhere
We have an English as a Second Language program here at the University. As part of their last assignment, they are to dress up and give a public speech on a topic of their choice. Many Middle Eastern students had never worn a tie. I used to help them learn.
There was one time, though, one of the Arab students decided he was not going to wear Western clothing. He decided to use a robe that he would have used to go to mosque. All of the sudden all the Middle Eastern students started doing the same thing, and I was out of a job teaching them how to knot a tie.
@The_Riv we also have an African family coming to worship. Invariably they are often the smartest dressed people at worship. As you say, very bold colors.
The point is that they have made the effort.
As for ties, I am never impressed when the top button is clearly visible above the top of the tie.
Assuming the correct knot has been selected for the collar style and other considerations, that is.
For services what I feel like like wearing to be comfortable. Like to have comments about logoed tee-shirts a number of occasions. Obviously this is only in the summer. Like most of us will be coated up during winter as church heating system not up to providing a comfortable atmosphere to concentrate in worship. In spite of being a church warden don't feel I need to be over formal. However as the funeral verger, I do dress up suited tie and suit as don't think it appropriate to appear amongst the funeral congregation in informal dress.
Telford mentions ties. Does seem to me an unnecessary appraisal of clothing. Keep thinking it is linked with questionable politicians and estate agents, say no more.
I have noticed that many people struggle with wearing ties. I have loads of ties, including cricket tie which I very rarely wear.
There again, I never really go anywhere
We have an English as a Second Language program here at the University. As part of their last assignment, they are to dress up and give a public speech on a topic of their choice. Many Middle Eastern students had never worn a tie. I used to help them learn.
There was one time, though, one of the Arab students decided he was not going to wear Western clothing. He decided to use a robe that he would have used to go to mosque. All of the sudden all the Middle Eastern students started doing the same thing, and I was out of a job teaching them how to knot a tie.
@The_Riv we also have an African family coming to worship. Invariably they are often the smartest dressed people at worship. As you say, very bold colors.
The point is that they have made the effort.
As for ties, I am never impressed when the top button is clearly visible above the top of the tie.
Assuming the correct knot has been selected for the collar style and other considerations, that is.
I belong to a choir that fills in for regular choirs at various cathedrals around the country. We don’t robe, so the dress code for men is dark suit, white shirt and tie. It’s about the only time these days I ever wear any of those things.
I have noticed that many people struggle with wearing ties. I have loads of ties, including cricket tie which I very rarely wear.
There again, I never really go anywhere
I’m not sure I currently own a tie. Or a suit, etc.
I imagine a cricket tie would be very, very small. Can they put it on themselves or does a human have to help? 🦗
Wait, sneakers and trainers aren’t the same thing? (For real, I thought trainers were what sneakers were called in the UK.)
——-
I have two Hawaiian shirts. I think they’re the only button-down shirts I have that fit. Everything else is t-shirts, mainly Disney. I need some more affordable Hawaiian shirts. I kind of switch between them…
I have noticed that many people struggle with wearing ties. I have loads of ties, including cricket tie which I very rarely wear.
There again, I never really go anywhere
I’m not sure I currently own a tie. Or a suit, etc.
I imagine a cricket tie would be very, very small. Can they put it on themselves or does a human have to help? 🦗
No ties? As a charitable gesture I would be happy to send you a dozen or so; some never used more than once. The remaining dozen or so have some sentimental value, even if I never wear all but one of them.
I have noticed that many people struggle with wearing ties. I have loads of ties, including cricket tie which I very rarely wear.
There again, I never really go anywhere
I’m not sure I currently own a tie. Or a suit, etc.
I imagine a cricket tie would be very, very small. Can they put it on themselves or does a human have to help? 🦗
No ties? As a charitable gesture I would be happy to send you a dozen or so; some never used more than once. The remaining dozen or so have some sentimental value, even if I never wear all but one of them.
That would be kind of you but I’m not sure I have any use for them at present. (Well—insert obligatory joke here, that is… 😈) Also I’m in the US. And no suit with which to wear them, etc. And trying to Marie Kondo my too-much-stuff as it is… but thank you for the thought. ❤️
A local lady, now sadly deceased, always wore a tie, usually with a flamboyant skirt and lots of brooches. I liked her a lot, and it got me thinking - why shouldn't women wear ties? Shortly afterwards the Red Cross shop got a lovely selection in of interesting silk ties, and now, when I'm wearing a shirt with a collar, I usually wear a tie.
Wait, sneakers and trainers aren’t the same thing? (For real, I thought trainers were what sneakers were called in the UK.)
As far as I know what you guys call sneakers we'd call trainers. Bit tougher than a plimsoll.
Not all Americans call them sneakers. Where I’m from, they’re “tennis shoes” (pronounced tennishoos). Whether or not they’d actually be worn for tennis is irrelevant.
They go by a variety of terms in Canada: sneakers, running shoes, runners. Tennis ( or any other sport) shoes would tend to be reserved for shoes worn specifically for that sport.
They go by a variety of terms in Canada: sneakers, running shoes, runners. Tennis ( or any other sport) shoes would tend to be reserved for shoes worn specifically for that sport.
Well, bear in that this is the part of the country where for a long time, the generic term for what is often called “soda” or “pop” was “Coke”—as in “Would you like a Coke?” “Yes, please.” “Okay, we have Pepsi, Dr. Pepper and Mountain Dew.”
We would say “running shoes” or “walking shoes” or the like for shoes specifically designed for those purposes. But “tennis shoes” means what is meant by “sneakers” or “trainers” elsewhere. Like “Coke,” though, it may be mostly older generations that haven’t moved to different terms.
This is an NFL (National [American] Football League) anecdote. For 12 years we lived inn a suburb of Cincinnati, OH, where the local NFL team is the Bengals. Having been raised just outside of Pittsburgh, PA, I was fortunate to come of age when the Steelers were winning a number of their Superbowl championships. Back to Cincinnati... because the Bengals and Steelers are in the same Division (a subset of four teams within the larger League), they play against one another twice each regular season, and sometimes meet for a third time during the Playoffs. On the Sundays the Bengals were in Pittsburgh or the Steelers in Cincinnati, I always made sure to wear a Steelers necktie to church, and would pull it out from behind my cassock and surplice for the recessional hymn, smiling broadly as I walked up the center aisle and out of the nave. After a few years of this local blasphemy, the men of the church decided they'd had enough, and didn't want to see my 'ugly' Steelers tie any more. So, in secret they took up a collection of old, ugly ties, and gathered 52 of them, their rationale being that they wanted me to be able to wear an ugly non-Steelers tie every week of the year. They also chipped in and purchased for me an official NFL Cincinnati Bengals tie which they insisted I wear on the Sundays following a PIT/CIN game if the Bengals won. It was great fun, and I did end up wearing that Bengals tie a few times. I've since donated a lot of those old, ugly ties, but I have also kept a good number of them, much to Mrs. The_Riv's chagrin. I really, really miss that parish.
I was saddened to find that young people round here no longer know the regional name for trainers / sneakers / tennis shoes / runners (delete as appropriate).
Telford mentions ties. Does seem to me an unnecessary appraisal of clothing. Keep thinking it is linked with questionable politicians and estate agents, say no more.
Unnecessary? Sure, but in my opinion a suit and tie looks very much better than a suit with open-necked shirt. Assuming it's a decent tie, of course.
Long pants, generally a long-sleeved shirt (though once it hits 35°C (95F) I may go short-sleeved, though we have a/c) and boots usually.
Yesterday a kid came with his grandmother with "sex" on the back of his t-shirt which I thought was a interesting choice (while I noticed it, I don't get worked up about such things...)
I was saddened to find that young people round here no longer know the regional name for trainers / sneakers / tennis shoes / runners (delete as appropriate).
A family member who grew up north of Watford refers to some shoes as daps. I've not quite managed to work out the relevant criteria
I was saddened to find that young people round here no longer know the regional name for trainers / sneakers / tennis shoes / runners (delete as appropriate).
A family member who grew up north of Watford refers to some shoes as daps.
I've heard people describing what would otherwise be described as 'plimsolls' this way (rubber soled shoes with canvas uppers).
In winter jeans or chinos with a long sleeve shirt and sneakers. In summer tailored shorts and short sleeve shirt and sneakers or sandals. As I am the organist no one sees what I wear until after the service. When I play for a funeral, light blue long sleeve shirt and black trousers and black shoes, no tie. We have a retired minister in his 90's who still wears a suit and tie and his wife very expensive dresses. One Sunday last summer I received the 'once over' from him. I guess he didn't approve of shorts. Our church is not air conditioned and is extremely hot and stuffy in summer and freezing in winter.
I was saddened to find that young people round here no longer know the regional name for trainers / sneakers / tennis shoes / runners (delete as appropriate).
A family member who grew up north of Watford refers to some shoes as daps.
I've heard people describing what would otherwise be described as 'plimsolls' this way (rubber soled shoes with canvas uppers).
I was saddened to find that young people round here no longer know the regional name for trainers / sneakers / tennis shoes / runners (delete as appropriate).
A family member who grew up north of Watford refers to some shoes as daps. I've not quite managed to work out the relevant criteria
I would say that daps were lightweight canvas shoes, often used for gym by small children, although their role has been significantly supplanted by trainers these days.
I was saddened to find that young people round here no longer know the regional name for trainers / sneakers / tennis shoes / runners (delete as appropriate).
A family member who grew up north of Watford refers to some shoes as daps.
I've heard people describing what would otherwise be described as 'plimsolls' this way (rubber soled shoes with canvas uppers).
Me, black jeans, black top (polo neck in winter, t-shirt in summer, maybe light coloured in the height of summer), black boots, shoes or sandals according to weather with socks if appropriate, coloured scarf.
As a un-uniformed member of the sacristy, it is good if I blend in without pretending I am something I am not.
Comments
Say what?!
Then we finally got to being able to have in-person services again. Because of distancing needs, the choir couldn’t all sit in the choir stalls, and we didn’t have robes. So, we had much of the choir sitting in the congregation, no robes, and moving to the chancel steps for anthems.
Turned out people—choir and congregation—liked all of that. And the choir has grown.
There’s more to it, including a question I might ask in a different thread. But that’s the gist.
We have an English as a Second Language program here at the University. As part of their last assignment, they are to dress up and give a public speech on a topic of their choice. Many Middle Eastern students had never worn a tie. I used to help them learn.
There was one time, though, one of the Arab students decided he was not going to wear Western clothing. He decided to use a robe that he would have used to go to mosque. All of the sudden all the Middle Eastern students started doing the same thing, and I was out of a job teaching them how to knot a tie.
@The_Riv we also have an African family coming to worship. Invariably they are often the smartest dressed people at worship. As you say, very bold colors.
That’s interesting, @Nick Tamen, but it doesn’t surprise me. I can’t imagine a church choir situation today in which things would move toward increased formality or something more historically traditional.
I encourage you to share your other thought in a separate thread!
Ahem. As some US posters have reminded us, not everyone here lives in the UK.
I must admit a mere 4.5C seems a rather low threshold to consider turning the heat on ... 😉.
Do any churches in California need heating at all? 😉
No wonder they all wander around in shorts and T-shirts if they think that's cold. 🤔 No, seriously, it's all relative of course.
Not every church goer here in the UK worships in a Victorian barn or a medieval building. And it gets a lot, lot colder in Germany and central and Eastern Europe than it does here. Who was the Shipmate from Sasketchewan? They described temperatures that were unimaginably cold.
Well, no.
But he wouldn't have worn trousers, sneakers, trainers (daps, pumps, whatever such things are called in your regional vernacular), socks, suits, doublet and hose, a Cossack uniform, jeans, shorts, sports gear etc etc etc either.
Let's not get too literal about these things.
There's a bloke around here everyone calls 'Jogging Jesus.'
Why?
Because he jogs and he looks like Jesus (as he is conventionally portrayed in western art and cinematography).
This isn't an issue of 'what would Jesus wear?' I've heard it claimed that the seamless robe for which his captors cast lots was a serious piece of kit, rather like a well-tailored suit.
Now, I'm not suggesting that Christ walked around in the equivalent of Saville Row suits but it wouldn't appear he went round in rags either. Otherwise nobody would have run a lottery for his clothing.
No, what I'm suggesting is what others have suggested, that we dress appropriately for whatever context we find ourselves in - insofar as we are able.
I'm off to the midweek Liturgy today. There won't be many there and nobody would notice what I wear. But I won't wear my scruffiest clothes but won't go in a suit and tie either.
The point is that they have made the effort.
As for ties, I am never impressed when the top button is clearly visible above the top of the tie.
Not sure how you manage that: by the time we have disrobed ( and chatted in the choir vestry ) we would be the last to get coffee, all the chairs would be taken and the tea would be stewed. I know, poor excuses for being somewhat anti-social.
Assuming the correct knot has been selected for the collar style and other considerations, that is.
Missed the edit window to add this:
Besides, haven't you read that verse in the Gospels which says, 'If any man has two zipper ties ...'
Or, 'If thy tie offend thee, slip it off!'
Tie is weddings and funerals only anyway.
Is Outrage!
I’m not sure I currently own a tie. Or a suit, etc.
I imagine a cricket tie would be very, very small. Can they put it on themselves or does a human have to help? 🦗
——-
I have two Hawaiian shirts. I think they’re the only button-down shirts I have that fit. Everything else is t-shirts, mainly Disney. I need some more affordable Hawaiian shirts. I kind of switch between them…
No ties? As a charitable gesture I would be happy to send you a dozen or so; some never used more than once. The remaining dozen or so have some sentimental value, even if I never wear all but one of them.
That would be kind of you but I’m not sure I have any use for them at present. (Well—insert obligatory joke here, that is… 😈) Also I’m in the US. And no suit with which to wear them, etc. And trying to Marie Kondo my too-much-stuff as it is… but thank you for the thought. ❤️
As far as I know what you guys call sneakers we'd call trainers. Bit tougher than a plimsoll.
We would say “running shoes” or “walking shoes” or the like for shoes specifically designed for those purposes. But “tennis shoes” means what is meant by “sneakers” or “trainers” elsewhere. Like “Coke,” though, it may be mostly older generations that haven’t moved to different terms.
This is an NFL (National [American] Football League) anecdote. For 12 years we lived inn a suburb of Cincinnati, OH, where the local NFL team is the Bengals. Having been raised just outside of Pittsburgh, PA, I was fortunate to come of age when the Steelers were winning a number of their Superbowl championships. Back to Cincinnati... because the Bengals and Steelers are in the same Division (a subset of four teams within the larger League), they play against one another twice each regular season, and sometimes meet for a third time during the Playoffs. On the Sundays the Bengals were in Pittsburgh or the Steelers in Cincinnati, I always made sure to wear a Steelers necktie to church, and would pull it out from behind my cassock and surplice for the recessional hymn, smiling broadly as I walked up the center aisle and out of the nave. After a few years of this local blasphemy, the men of the church decided they'd had enough, and didn't want to see my 'ugly' Steelers tie any more. So, in secret they took up a collection of old, ugly ties, and gathered 52 of them, their rationale being that they wanted me to be able to wear an ugly non-Steelers tie every week of the year. They also chipped in and purchased for me an official NFL Cincinnati Bengals tie which they insisted I wear on the Sundays following a PIT/CIN game if the Bengals won. It was great fun, and I did end up wearing that Bengals tie a few times. I've since donated a lot of those old, ugly ties, but I have also kept a good number of them, much to Mrs. The_Riv's chagrin. I really, really miss that parish.
Unnecessary? Sure, but in my opinion a suit and tie looks very much better than a suit with open-necked shirt. Assuming it's a decent tie, of course.
Yesterday a kid came with his grandmother with "sex" on the back of his t-shirt which I thought was a interesting choice (while I noticed it, I don't get worked up about such things...)
A family member who grew up north of Watford refers to some shoes as daps. I've not quite managed to work out the relevant criteria
I've heard people describing what would otherwise be described as 'plimsolls' this way (rubber soled shoes with canvas uppers).
Sandshoes here in Oz
Dad just stored his regular church ties tied and treated them like zipper ties. Rarely did he have to redo the knots.
His work tie was a clip on. The last thing a sheriff's deputy wants to wear is a pre-placed noose.
I would say that daps were lightweight canvas shoes, often used for gym by small children, although their role has been significantly supplanted by trainers these days.
Pumps, plimsolls, daps or typically worn in school
tennis shoes
deck shoes
trainers (IMHO not very different from tennis shoes.)
Me, black jeans, black top (polo neck in winter, t-shirt in summer, maybe light coloured in the height of summer), black boots, shoes or sandals according to weather with socks if appropriate, coloured scarf.
As a un-uniformed member of the sacristy, it is good if I blend in without pretending I am something I am not.