I'm not sure anyone here is saying that non-orthodox belief is necessarily going to damage someone's physical health - in the way that a poor diet, sleep deprivation, lack of exercise or over-indulgence, a physical condition or lack of particular vitamins might.
If we use the analogy of the Church as a hospital for sin-sick souls, a common Big O Orthodox trope, then it follows that the 'medication' on offer should be both efficacious and provided in the right dosages. Too much medicine can be harmful.
It could be argued from both Big O and small o orthodox perspectives that non-orthodox beliefs can damage a person's spiritual health, however much the person 'suffering' from those beliefs might enjoy or value them.
People who smoke or drink to excess may well enjoy doing so, but the effect on their health can be highly detrimental.
We can get 'spiritual addictions' as well as physical ones.
I'm treading carefully here but the Apostle Paul did seem to draw a link between 'unworthy' or ill-considered participation in the Eucharist / Lord's Supper / communion and untimely death. Yikes! It's a wonder any of us are still here ...
1 Corinthians 11:30 'For this reason many are weak and sick among you and some have died.'
However we understand that, it does raise issues as to 'how far' from any received norm we have to go before we suffer the consequences. And no, I'm not suggesting that anyone who deviates slightly from received creedal orthodoxy is bound for everlasting torment, nor that those who deviate widely from it are going to do so either. But neither do I think they are doing themselves or anyone else any favours by entertaining these out-of-kilter beliefs.
Looking back on my charismatic evangelical days, I can think of emphases and mindsets there which I feel did cause me spiritual harm - as well as others that were neutral, helpful, excellent and praiseworthy and all stations in between.
Whether something 'feels good' or 'feels right' doesn't necessarily make it so.
That isn't to say that Mormons, say, or JWs, for instance, can't be happy within their particuar belief systems. It's not about being 'happy' it's about what is True - 'the Truth as it is in Jesus.'
It may be unfashionable to make truth claims but if we believe in the Incarnation then we are bound to do so.
To borrow and adapt a quotation from another Christian tradition, 'Here we stand. We can do no other.'
To quote the liturgical texts in relation to St Alban, proto-martyr of Britain who was celebrated earlier this week, 'My name is Alban and I am a servant of the True and Living God.'
That got him the chop.
It's not always about 'being happy'. It's about being True.
Would these people really repeal women's right to vote?
Don't answer that question. I think I need to go and lie down ...
Says the guy who not too long ago joined a church that doesn't ordain women. Give me a break. You're an active contributor to the sexism that is still deeply ingrained in our societies.
Doug Wilson does not think housewives should have the vote. He thinks each household should have one vote and that should depend on the husband. The wife should agree with the husband. He recognizes single women, widows mostly can vote if they are the head of the house. However, if the woman is still living with her father, the father votes for the household, or if the woman lives with her brother, the brother votes as head of the household. If the widow is living with the son...I think you get the picture.
In other words, it is the household that gets one vote, and that would likely be the male head of the house. Authority flows through male leadership unless no male head exists.
Would these people really repeal women's right to vote?
Don't answer that question. I think I need to go and lie down ...
Says the guy who not too long ago joined a church that doesn't ordain women. Give me a break. You're an active contributor to the sexism that is still deeply ingrained in our societies.
Hostly beret on
@Ruth this is a personal attack. Take it to hell or desist.
In other news about good ol' Pete, General Christopher Donahue, the commander of Land forces under NATO and the US commander overseeing American forces in Africa has resigned. The Guardian reports:
An army official who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to talk about sensitive discussions told the Associated Press that Donahue’s departure comes as the army is discussing downgrading US Army Europe and Africa from a four-star to a three-star command.
This move would come amid ongoing criticism from Hegseth about European allies.
Last week, Hegseth told Nato allies he would be conducting a six-month Pentagon review of American forces in Europe that is “designed to ensure that Nato is moving fast and irreversibly toward Europe leading, stepping up to take primary responsibility for the defense of Europe”.
The problem from the American standpoint with moving the European Command down to a three-star position would put the American commander below many European commanders with an 0-9 rating. From my own view, I think it would serve Europe better if a European four-star level officer takes the over Donahue's position anyway.
For those who remember, Donahue was the last American soldier to officially leave Afghanistan when the American supported government collapsed. Hegseth never liked that development even now, even though the withdrawal was first initiated by his Commander in Chief, during his first administration.
Doug Wilson is very nasty indeed - there has been a lot written about how his church has attempted to take over a place in Idaho called Moscow (Idaho unfortunately attracts a LOT of religious cranks of the more dangerous type including the FLDS). I would recommend reading the Wikipedia page on his church and this Guardian article for starters.
Doug Wilson is very nasty indeed - there has been a lot written about how his church has attempted to take over a place in Idaho called Moscow (Idaho unfortunately attracts a LOT of religious cranks of the more dangerous type including the FLDS). I would recommend reading the Wikipedia page on his church and this Guardian article for starters.
I live just eight miles from Moscow. It is the home of the University of Idaho. The U of I has no official connection to Doug Wilson, but his people like to rent U of I auditoriums for special events. I think it gives him an air of respectability. By Idaho law, the U of I cannot deny anyone from using their facilities.
As you may have read, Hegseth is initiating screening of military personnel for low testosterone with the idea of approving testosterone replacement therapy for those who test low.
And that led to a question from a judge: what is the differences between that kind of testosterone replacement therapy and hormone treatment for transgender men in the military? The judge is handling a lawsuit against the ban on transgender troops. She ordered both parties in the lawsuit to address “the similarities and differences in administering TRT, both medically and logistically, for trans men compared to other service members, including cis individuals.”
As you may have read, Hegseth is initiating screening of military personnel for low testosterone with the idea of approving testosterone replacement therapy for those who test low.
And that led to a question from a judge: what is the differences between that kind of testosterone replacement therapy and hormone treatment for transgender men in the military? The judge is handling a lawsuit against the ban on transgender troops. She ordered both parties in the lawsuit to address “the similarities and differences in administering TRT, both medically and logistically, for trans men compared to other service members, including cis individuals.”
A physician I know said the testosterone supplement will make little difference in making a soldier stronger.
In the bleak dark hours of early morning I was trying to think (as one does) who the pugnacious Mr Hegseth reminded me of. After much turning and tossing I remembered: Jack D Ripper in Dr Strangelove. Especially so given Hegseth's obsession with precious bodily fluids and the makeup thereof.
You couldn't make it up. Oh, hold on, Stanley Kubrick did!
Really hard to say. So far all I have heard is Hegseth wants to use a testosterone supplement. Nothing about a peptide. However, RFK jr's Health administration just recommended approval of more peptides in our medicine cabinet.
It is scary to think testosterone supplements can cause liver damage.
Really hard to say. So far all I have heard is Hegseth wants to use a testosterone supplement. Nothing about a peptide. However, RFK jr's Health administration just recommended approval of more peptides in our medicine cabinet.
It is scary to think testosterone supplements can cause liver damage.
Sorry, not interested.
It's not the liver damage, but the psychological damage - paranoia - that is the really scary aspect of this treatment.
And does he realise that he has turned the entire US military into a laughing stock? That noise you can hear is all the generals grinding their teeth...
Last night, I think it was on the Rachel Maddow show, she mentioned good ole Pete has sent out a email to members of the military officer corpe to the effect: does anyone have any idea how to win the Iranian war. I have not seen any specific article on this, though.
Really hard to say. So far all I have heard is Hegseth wants to use a testosterone supplement. Nothing about a peptide. However, RFK jr's Health administration just recommended approval of more peptides in our medicine cabinet.
It is scary to think testosterone supplements can cause liver damage.
Sorry, not interested.
It's not the liver damage, but the psychological damage - paranoia - that is the really scary aspect of this treatment.
When one already has liver problems, that is a red flag, in my book.
Last night, I think it was on the Rachel Maddow show, she mentioned good ole Pete has sent out a email to members of the military officer corpe to the effect: does anyone have any idea how to win the Iranian war. I have not seen any specific article on this, though.
Has anyone mentioned that it is a land war in Asia?
Last night, I think it was on the Rachel Maddow show, she mentioned good ole Pete has sent out a email to members of the military officer corpe to the effect: does anyone have any idea how to win the Iranian war. I have not seen any specific article on this, though.
Has anyone mentioned that it is a land war in Asia?
Serious question. Does that line as a commonly recognized phrase pre-date The Princess Bride?
Even just confining the list to American/allied conflicts in the C20: the Pacific Theatre of World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, all involved pretty different topographies from each other, as well as what I assume(having only lived in Korea) would be pretty different cultural attitudes among the enemy, such that there wouldn't be a lot of commonalities that you could meaningfully classify under the heading "Asian".
I suspect the phrase is just a more targeted version of "Don't go fighting wars in faraway places where you're not gonna know what the hell is going on anyway."
(Post-Vietnam, my dad used to occasionally say "Never fight a war in the jungle", which probably actually has some logic behind it, but would apply to similar terrain outside Asia.)
As far as I know, I principle of not engaging in a land war in Asia goes back at least as far as Alexander the Great (who had to marry an Afghan princess to avoid being whupped there), through some Roman misadventures and on to Napoleon’s and Hitler’s better known adventures. Note that the U.K. was involved with the early Soviet Union and that didn’t work out well either.
As far as I know, I principle of not engaging in a land war in Asia goes back at least as far as Alexander the Great (who had to marry an Afghan princess to avoid being whupped there), through some Roman misadventures and on to Napoleon’s and Hitler’s better known adventures. Note that the U.K. was involved with the early Soviet Union and that didn’t work out well either.
Yeah, but what do all those situations have in common, apart from involving the the gargantuan landmass known as Asia?
I guess you could say they involve westerners getting mixed up with non-western places, but Alexander predates contemporary concepts of "the west", and the infamous climatological challenges faced by Napoleon and Hitler certainly weren't paralleled for the Americans in Vietnam.
Reminds me of the Peter, Paul, Mary song: Where have all the flowers gone? Especially the chorus line, "When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?"
Reminds me of the Peter, Paul, Mary song: Where have all the flowers gone? Especially the chorus line, "When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?"
I love Peter, Paul and Mary’s version of “Where Have All the Flowers Gone,” but I feel constrained to point out that it was written by Pete Seeger, at least the first three verses were. Joe Hickerson later added the remaining verses that Peter, Paul and Mary (and others) sang, including the return to the first verse.
Reminds me of the Peter, Paul, Mary song: Where have all the flowers gone? Especially the chorus line, "When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?"
I love Peter, Paul and Mary’s version of “Where Have All the Flowers Gone,” but I feel constrained to point out that it was written by Pete Seeger, at least the first three verses were. Joe Hickerson later added the remaining verses that Peter, Paul and Mary (and others) sang, including the return to the first verse.
Noted.
P,P,&M. did a number of covers of Pete's songs. Miss the old folk singers.
Reminds me of the Peter, Paul, Mary song: Where have all the flowers gone? Especially the chorus line, "When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?"
I love Peter, Paul and Mary’s version of “Where Have All the Flowers Gone,” but I feel constrained to point out that it was written by Pete Seeger, at least the first three verses were. Joe Hickerson later added the remaining verses that Peter, Paul and Mary (and others) sang, including the return to the first verse.
Noted.
P,P,&M. did a number of covers of Pete's songs. Miss the old folk singers.
As do I. Peter, Paul and Mary in particular have a central place in the soundtrack of my childhood home.
We have a couple of decent folk music clubs and fortunately they don’t restrict the permitted repertoire to material collected by Cecil Sharp and Ralph Vaughan Williams. Electric instruments are permitted, so long as they don’t drown out the traffic noise.
Believe me, there are some pretty joyless music establishments around. V sad.
Last night, I think it was on the Rachel Maddow show, she mentioned good ole Pete has sent out a email to members of the military officer corpe to the effect: does anyone have any idea how to win the Iranian war. I have not seen any specific article on this, though.
Has anyone mentioned that it is a land war in Asia?
Serious question. Does that line as a commonly recognized phrase pre-date The Princess Bride?
Even just confining the list to American/allied conflicts in the C20: the Pacific Theatre of World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, all involved pretty different topographies from each other, as well as what I assume(having only lived in Korea) would be pretty different cultural attitudes among the enemy, such that there wouldn't be a lot of commonalities that you could meaningfully classify under the heading "Asian".
I suspect the phrase is just a more targeted version of "Don't go fighting wars in faraway places where you're not gonna know what the hell is going on anyway."
(Post-Vietnam, my dad used to occasionally say "Never fight a war in the jungle", which probably actually has some logic behind it, but would apply to similar terrain outside Asia.)
I think that, painting with an incredibly broad brush:
- Asia is huge, a lot of the countries are vast, making logistics an absolute ball ache
- the geography, while varied, experiences a lot of the extremes that come with being far inland and/or in mountainous terrain
- the most "civilised" areas where the geography is more amenable have huge populations and consequent ability to mount resistance
It's just a military version of 'don't bite off more than you can chew,' surely?
But the war has followed the usual pattern: fly in and drop bombs on people. Express surprise that your victims don't immediately surrender. Drop some more bombs. Rinse and repeat. 🤬😭
It's just a military version of 'don't bite off more than you can chew,' surely?
But the war has followed the usual pattern: fly in and drop bombs on people. Express surprise that your victims don't immediately surrender. Drop some more bombs. Rinse and repeat. 🤬😭
It's just a military version of 'don't bite off more than you can chew,' surely?
But the war has followed the usual pattern: fly in and drop bombs on people. Express surprise that your victims don't immediately surrender. Drop some more bombs. Rinse and repeat. 🤬😭
Ever hear of 1984?
I not only read it at the age of 14, I have been to the Scottish island where George Orwell wrote it. I don't think this is the future he was expecting: who could have predicted in 1948 that we would sell our souls to Big Brother in exchange for a bunch of cat videos?
We are. In 1984. There is a constant bombing. It serves several purposes.
The people stay loyal because of fear.
Chaos prevents organized resistance.
Propaganda says we are always under attack.
There is a distraction that keeps citizens from noticing the party's lies.
Don't you see this in Trump's administration and in particular in how good ole' Pete is running the show?
We are. In 1984. There is a constant bombing. It serves several purposes.
The people stay loyal because of fear.
Chaos prevents organized resistance.
Propaganda says we are always under attack.
There is a distraction that keeps citizens from noticing the party's lies.
Don't you see this in Trump's administration and in particular in how good ole' Pete is running the show?
No, not really.
I don’t see anyone but the true believers and politicians worried about their own futures and fortunes staying loyal, at least not loyal to Trump.
I see a fair bit of organized resistance.
I think the majority of Americans are well aware of the administration’s lies and are disinclined to believe the administration’s propaganda.
We are. In 1984. There is a constant bombing. It serves several purposes.
The people stay loyal because of fear.
Chaos prevents organized resistance.
Propaganda says we are always under attack.
There is a distraction that keeps citizens from noticing the party's lies.
Don't you see this in Trump's administration and in particular in how good ole' Pete is running the show?
No, not really.
I don’t see anyone but the true believers and politicians worried about their own futures and fortunes staying loyal, at least not loyal to Trump.
I see a fair bit of organized resistance.
I think the majority of Americans are well aware of the administration’s lies and are disinclined to believe the administration’s propaganda.
Not disputing that, but the Trump administration has been operating as if they are the Party today. They would like to see this misaligned quartet happen.
Comments
Historically they very much thought of themselves as the doctor. I might mention the Inquisition; I might make reference to Servetus.
I'd like to say we know better now but far too often when I say that I get accused of chronological snobbery.
If we use the analogy of the Church as a hospital for sin-sick souls, a common Big O Orthodox trope, then it follows that the 'medication' on offer should be both efficacious and provided in the right dosages. Too much medicine can be harmful.
It could be argued from both Big O and small o orthodox perspectives that non-orthodox beliefs can damage a person's spiritual health, however much the person 'suffering' from those beliefs might enjoy or value them.
People who smoke or drink to excess may well enjoy doing so, but the effect on their health can be highly detrimental.
We can get 'spiritual addictions' as well as physical ones.
I'm treading carefully here but the Apostle Paul did seem to draw a link between 'unworthy' or ill-considered participation in the Eucharist / Lord's Supper / communion and untimely death. Yikes! It's a wonder any of us are still here ...
1 Corinthians 11:30 'For this reason many are weak and sick among you and some have died.'
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-30.htm
However we understand that, it does raise issues as to 'how far' from any received norm we have to go before we suffer the consequences. And no, I'm not suggesting that anyone who deviates slightly from received creedal orthodoxy is bound for everlasting torment, nor that those who deviate widely from it are going to do so either. But neither do I think they are doing themselves or anyone else any favours by entertaining these out-of-kilter beliefs.
Looking back on my charismatic evangelical days, I can think of emphases and mindsets there which I feel did cause me spiritual harm - as well as others that were neutral, helpful, excellent and praiseworthy and all stations in between.
Whether something 'feels good' or 'feels right' doesn't necessarily make it so.
That isn't to say that Mormons, say, or JWs, for instance, can't be happy within their particuar belief systems. It's not about being 'happy' it's about what is True - 'the Truth as it is in Jesus.'
It may be unfashionable to make truth claims but if we believe in the Incarnation then we are bound to do so.
To borrow and adapt a quotation from another Christian tradition, 'Here we stand. We can do no other.'
To quote the liturgical texts in relation to St Alban, proto-martyr of Britain who was celebrated earlier this week, 'My name is Alban and I am a servant of the True and Living God.'
That got him the chop.
It's not always about 'being happy'. It's about being True.
Says the guy who not too long ago joined a church that doesn't ordain women. Give me a break. You're an active contributor to the sexism that is still deeply ingrained in our societies.
In other words, it is the household that gets one vote, and that would likely be the male head of the house. Authority flows through male leadership unless no male head exists.
The American Constitution gives women the right to vote in the 19th amendment.
Wilson would like to see that amendment repealed, but he is not actively campaigning for the repeal at this time.
Hostly beret on
@Ruth this is a personal attack. Take it to hell or desist.
Hostly beret off
la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
The problem from the American standpoint with moving the European Command down to a three-star position would put the American commander below many European commanders with an 0-9 rating. From my own view, I think it would serve Europe better if a European four-star level officer takes the over Donahue's position anyway.
For those who remember, Donahue was the last American soldier to officially leave Afghanistan when the American supported government collapsed. Hegseth never liked that development even now, even though the withdrawal was first initiated by his Commander in Chief, during his first administration.
I live just eight miles from Moscow. It is the home of the University of Idaho. The U of I has no official connection to Doug Wilson, but his people like to rent U of I auditoriums for special events. I think it gives him an air of respectability. By Idaho law, the U of I cannot deny anyone from using their facilities.
And that led to a question from a judge: what is the differences between that kind of testosterone replacement therapy and hormone treatment for transgender men in the military? The judge is handling a lawsuit against the ban on transgender troops. She ordered both parties in the lawsuit to address “the similarities and differences in administering TRT, both medically and logistically, for trans men compared to other service members, including cis individuals.”
A physician I know said the testosterone supplement will make little difference in making a soldier stronger.
Nailed it. Of course he’ll never see the connection. Or if he does, he’ll never admit it.
You couldn't make it up. Oh, hold on, Stanley Kubrick did!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gd82vvvdno
Is he, perhaps, already taking it?
Really hard to say. So far all I have heard is Hegseth wants to use a testosterone supplement. Nothing about a peptide. However, RFK jr's Health administration just recommended approval of more peptides in our medicine cabinet.
It is scary to think testosterone supplements can cause liver damage.
Sorry, not interested.
It's not the liver damage, but the psychological damage - paranoia - that is the really scary aspect of this treatment.
When one already has liver problems, that is a red flag, in my book.
Has anyone mentioned that it is a land war in Asia?
Serious question. Does that line as a commonly recognized phrase pre-date The Princess Bride?
Even just confining the list to American/allied conflicts in the C20: the Pacific Theatre of World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, all involved pretty different topographies from each other, as well as what I assume(having only lived in Korea) would be pretty different cultural attitudes among the enemy, such that there wouldn't be a lot of commonalities that you could meaningfully classify under the heading "Asian".
I suspect the phrase is just a more targeted version of "Don't go fighting wars in faraway places where you're not gonna know what the hell is going on anyway."
(Post-Vietnam, my dad used to occasionally say "Never fight a war in the jungle", which probably actually has some logic behind it, but would apply to similar terrain outside Asia.)
Yeah, but what do all those situations have in common, apart from involving the the gargantuan landmass known as Asia?
I guess you could say they involve westerners getting mixed up with non-western places, but Alexander predates contemporary concepts of "the west", and the infamous climatological challenges faced by Napoleon and Hitler certainly weren't paralleled for the Americans in Vietnam.
Noted.
P,P,&M. did a number of covers of Pete's songs. Miss the old folk singers.
Believe me, there are some pretty joyless music establishments around. V sad.
I think that, painting with an incredibly broad brush:
- Asia is huge, a lot of the countries are vast, making logistics an absolute ball ache
- the geography, while varied, experiences a lot of the extremes that come with being far inland and/or in mountainous terrain
- the most "civilised" areas where the geography is more amenable have huge populations and consequent ability to mount resistance
But the war has followed the usual pattern: fly in and drop bombs on people. Express surprise that your victims don't immediately surrender. Drop some more bombs. Rinse and repeat. 🤬😭
Ever hear of 1984?
And Iran is still standing!
I not only read it at the age of 14, I have been to the Scottish island where George Orwell wrote it. I don't think this is the future he was expecting: who could have predicted in 1948 that we would sell our souls to Big Brother in exchange for a bunch of cat videos?
But I thought we were talking about Pete Hegseth.
The people stay loyal because of fear.
Chaos prevents organized resistance.
Propaganda says we are always under attack.
There is a distraction that keeps citizens from noticing the party's lies.
Don't you see this in Trump's administration and in particular in how good ole' Pete is running the show?
I don’t see anyone but the true believers and politicians worried about their own futures and fortunes staying loyal, at least not loyal to Trump.
I see a fair bit of organized resistance.
I think the majority of Americans are well aware of the administration’s lies and are disinclined to believe the administration’s propaganda.
Not disputing that, but the Trump administration has been operating as if they are the Party today. They would like to see this misaligned quartet happen.
Thanks for posting those. I had forgotten (/was slightly too young for) a time when TV could be that good.