Be Thou my Vision
I love this hymn and have been looking up the history of it. This is AI's version, is it close?
I really like "Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art" for all it's ancient language.
Or is it "Be all else but naught to me"?
What do you think of the hymn?
What about the warfare language
?"Historical Backstory: St. Patrick (5th Century)The spiritual landscape of the hymn traces back to around 433 CE and St. Patrick, the first Christian missionary to Ireland.According to Irish lore, the pagan High King Logaire issued a decree forbidding anyone from lighting a fire until the king lit his own to signal the start of a spring festival. In bold defiance, St. Patrick lit a sacred Easter fire on Slane Hill to honour Christ. The king was so moved by Patrick’s courage and devotion that he overrode his own decree, allowing Patrick to safely continue preaching the Gospel.
The Original Poem: Saint Dallán (6th Century)Around the early 6th century, an Irish monk, scholar, and poet named Saint Dallán Forgaill composed an Old Gaelic poem titled "Rop tú mo Baile" ("Be Thou My Vision"). Legend holds that Dallán, who went blind later in life, wrote the piece as a tribute to St. Patrick's legacy.Dallán wrote the poem in the traditional Celtic style of a lorica—a prayer of protection. It cast God as a "Chieftain" or "High King," using vivid battlefield imagery like "shield" and "sword" to depict spiritual warfare. Dallán was eventually martyred by pirates in 598 CE, but his poem survived for centuries via oral tradition."
I really like "Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art" for all it's ancient language.
Or is it "Be all else but naught to me"?
What do you think of the hymn?
What about the warfare language
Hidden AI generated content. There is no problem with the rest of the thread so it may continue. la vie en rouge, Purgatory host
Comments
As for the tune being named SLANE, that same article says: “It was common practice to attribute hymn tune names to the place where they were collected by folk song collectors, such as Ralph Vaughan Williams who co-edited The English Hymnal, published in 1906. Slane is a village in Ireland.”
I love “Be Thou My Vision” too. I don’t think the “warfare” language is battlefield language as such. Rather, it’s language typical of a lorica—a prayer for protection, putting on the “armor of God.” The Breastplate of St. Patrick (“I Bind unto Myself Today”) is probably the best known example of a lorica.
Loricae probably originate in pre-Christian protection spells. They are particularly associated with the Celtic church.
Irish Lúireach, Welsh Llurig
I created a Dark Ages British Isles roleplaying setting once. Lorica was a spell available to Priests and Monastics but also Druids and Bards. /tangent
Both Welsh and Gaelic have Latin loan words although aren't Latin languages of course.
As for the hymn ... yes, it's a lovely hymn and set to a lovely Irish air.
It seems to be one which has been retained in the contemporary charismatic-lite repertoire and I wonder whether the Celtic folky feel is partly the reason for that?
I'm a tad wary of faux-Celtic stuff but this one gets a free pass.
Because it's not faux
Why are you asking generative AI for information rather than using, say, Wikipedia and the sources it lists? A source that will literally make things up is not a source anyone should be using.
I'm stunned that you would ask a plagiarism machine to slap some stuff together and then ask people here to evaluate its accuracy.
Yes, but not always.
I've heard it sung well in such settings but equally I've also suffered it as you describe.
Incidentally, I read something once by an expert on Irish folk music who said that the ubiquitous bodhran is all 'wrong'.
It was always used sparingly.
I don’t have an issue with percussion but it has to be used 'properly' or not at all.
We're getting into worship wars territory but I can never understand why modern adaptations of old hymns have to interfere with the time signatures and introduce a driving percussive rhythm in a gratuitous kind of way.
@KarlLB - no, it not 'faux' in the sense that it's actually based on an ancient Irish poem but it can still be a bit arch.
Most old hymns are in 4/4 to start with?
Anyway, the original complaint is somewhat strange in a way, given the ubiquity of hymns being set to multiple tunes.
I think the issue is buggering around with Slane rather than using a different tune altogether.
Although I will say that Meakness and Majesty is improved by the same treatment.
It does not bother me in the slightest.
There are plenty of prose versions of ancient hymns that are as good as unsingable. I would nominate the 1662 Book of Common Prayer prose psalter for a start. And plenty of examples of other ancient hymns that have been set to hymn tunes old and new and have not caught on.
Slowly, slowly I'm noticing some more singable Psalm settings (to Western ears) creeping in to some Orthodox parishes.
I do miss some of the Wesleyan and Victorian hymns, I must admit. I'm not opposed to some worship songs and choruses either, but I'm not familiar with some of the more recent ones.
I love the ancient tunes. We had Lord of all Hopefulness yesterday, to the same tune as Be Thou my Vision. One we had at our wedding.
There was a period in which our worship band persisted with performance songs. That annoyed Mrs Sioni so much that when one the band asked her what she thought of one song or another, she rather bluntly told him. Things changed a bit.
Not something my gentle wife does very often, but she has her touch points.
But then, 'in quires and places where they sing', the Psalms and anthems often have a performance quality. In most Orthodox parishes the choir does the singing and there's little congregational singing as such, which is something I miss. I tend to mutter or sing along.
But we're getting off the topic of this particular hymn.
On the issue of the military imagery, well, whether we like it or not that's in the scriptures. In Romania last week I visited one of the many fortified German churches in Transylvania. It had the verse from Ephesians 6 on the wall about the 'shield of faith'.
It was an organised hiking trip. I'd have liked to have visited more of those Transylvanian German villages. What I saw impressed me though.
In the 1960s and 1970s they were often literally choruses i.e. the chorus taken from a longer song but with Kendrick et al the move first came towards hymn form and then towards anthem form.
I remember complaining about the shift to the pastor of the church I was in at the time. What, me complain ... ?! 😉
This could turn into a 'history of worship songs' thread from the days of piano accordions and 'after church meetings' through '60s and '70s scripture-based ditties to 'Awake O Zion' and the somewhat triumphalist 'restorationist' songs, to the Vineyard, Kendrick and on to Hillsongs and Bethel and whatever it is these days.
I only catch the occasional worship song on the Sunday programme on Radio 4 and the odd visit to a church which sings them so I'm out of the loop.
That can depend on the arrangement of course, but I can see what you mean.
I'm a sucker for old Welsh hymn tunes in the minor key, so I'm not immune to sentimentality.