Trump still cannot stop using business tactics instead of proper diplomacy. The way he deals with other countries is like trying to bring another business down.
I think Sir P.'s view is close to the mark. Trump trashed a good deal to play a game of brinkmanship, then balked at attacking Iran when he had an excuse. The logic of his position demanded an attack, so now he is stuck. What a pity someone put him in charge because now we are all stuck with him. Thanks Republicans.
Magnier’s sources in Iran claim that Trump actually contacted Iran via Oman and requested that they let him bomb some empty beaches so he could tell people he did something without actually killing anyone . Iran said any attack anywhere would demand their full retaliation.
Trump might be getting “Iran” and “Iraq” mixed up. Iran is a lot bigger and very mountainous, so it will take a lot of effort, a lot of bombs and a lot of lives to achieve anything remotely approaching a victory. The people are different too. Why hasn’t Israel done more?
Trump might be getting “Iran” and “Iraq” mixed up. Iran is a lot bigger and very mountainous, so it will take a lot of effort, a lot of bombs and a lot of lives to achieve anything remotely approaching a victory. The people are different too. Why hasn’t Israel done more?
The geographic and social differences would be just the beginning of the headaches. Iran has more and better friends in the region and the ability to inflict devastating damage on US allies that would sent shockwaves throughout the world economy. As for the IDF, they used to be a great army but in the past few decades their primary combat experience has been stomping poorly organized militia and terrorizing civilians. The one time they went up against a real army was when they fought Hezbollah in 2006 and it did not go well for them. So I’m guessing they’re hesitant to mess with Iran themselves.
He'll probably be replaced by someone worse. And Trump may well appoint an Acting Secretary of Labor, so he wouldn't need Senate confirmation (I think).
Trump might be getting “Iran” and “Iraq” mixed up. Iran is a lot bigger and very mountainous, so it will take a lot of effort, a lot of bombs and a lot of lives to achieve anything remotely approaching a victory. The people are different too. Why hasn’t Israel done more?
The geographic and social differences would be just the beginning of the headaches. Iran has more and better friends in the region and the ability to inflict devastating damage on US allies that would sent shockwaves throughout the world economy. As for the IDF, they used to be a great army but in the past few decades their primary combat experience has been stomping poorly organized militia and terrorizing civilians. The one time they went up against a real army was when they fought Hezbollah in 2006 and it did not go well for them. So I’m guessing they’re hesitant to mess with Iran themselves.
It's good for Israel to have a realistic view of its military capacity. They were too gung ho for a long time. I hope a newfound realism will bring them back to the negotiating table when a different President can greenlight a peace process somewhere quiet and out of the media glare.
Trump out did himself today with tweets targeting young, progressive congresswomen suggesting they "go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came." Just when I think he can't sink any lower.
"[...] help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came." [...]
Well, I guess that's exactly why they got elected in the first place. They're trying to do their job. Which cannot be claimed of the utterer of said lines, who seems, as always, to try and deflect attention onto others, so that he himself can do whatever he wants. Well, whatever his momentary whimsy may be. The guy hasn't got any sense of either politics or reality.
He’s also demanding that the U.K. follows the Washington line regarding China’s Huawei electronics company, or there will be no trade deal with the USA. Tbh I believe Uncle Sam is right to be tough with the Chinese on electronics and communications, but it shows how little clout we will have outside the EU.
It keeps getting worse, but it's going to get additionally worse isn't it? Something is terribly broken in this "democracy" and it's not just him. Failure to confront and control him.
Trump out did himself today with tweets targeting young, progressive congresswomen suggesting they "go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came." Just when I think he can't sink any lower.
Three of the congresswomen mentioned were born in the U.S. and the 4th congresswoman was brought to this country legally as a small child and is a U.S. citizen. Trump’s tweets make his racism glaringly obvious. The only people he considers true citizens are white people.
Trump out did himself today with tweets targeting young, progressive congresswomen suggesting they "go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came." Just when I think he can't sink any lower.
Three of the congresswomen mentioned were born in the U.S. and the 4th congresswoman was brought to this country legally as a small child and is a U.S. citizen. Trump’s tweets make his racism glaringly obvious. The only people he considers true citizens are white people.
It is, perhaps, even more distressing that the President of the United States has just described the United States as "broken and crime-infested."
I wonder how many immigrants who are here illegally that just happen to look like Trump and his followers were on the arrest list? I am guessing not any.
Does he kill people to bring a business down? Does he understand the irony if he ever says "god bless America"?
I was more referring to his tactic of using tariffs to bring countries in line. Do what I want or I will make it difficult for you to trade with us. Business tactics. They are all he has, diplomacy us not one of his strengths
Do people reckon the racist element of Trump's attack on the fab four was deliberate?
I reckon it was.
At one time, "Go back to where you came from," was a very common racial slur for racist dolts to shout at African Americans. It was heard a lot during the Civil Rights marches of the 60's. Only after many years of pointing out the irony of this statement (since they hadn't come willingly in the first place) did the phrase lose popularity. Now, I would imagine, only the most ignorant and hateful KKK member say such a thing. And our president.
25 or 30 years ago, a friend was getting her marriage license and the clerk got frustrated about something and suggested that her to-be-husband should "just go back where you came from."
A Native American friend has told stories of being told the same thing.
See? I've always thought racists were just that stupid. My early experience with them were the toothless, illiterate hillbillies who lived in shacks and drank brain melting moon shine. They were mean and stupid and desperately needed someone to feel superior to. That's why I find it so hard to get my head around someone like Trump being a racist. I thought his entire value system was based on who had the most money and all races have some rich people.
25 or 30 years ago, a friend was getting her marriage license and the clerk got frustrated about something and suggested that her to-be-husband should "just go back where you came from."
He is white and came from London.
Dammit, two of the Donald’s three wives were born outside the USA, including the “First” Lady.
Remember, back when building that wall (and making Mexico pay for it) was Trump's total focus, and the people getting into the US there were criminals, drug dealers and rapists? He made a statement about who he considered valuable and welcome into the US. Scandinavians. He singled out Norwegians as good examples of desirable immigrants. Educated, well employed, sensible, not trouble-makers, not poverty-stricken, and most important - WHITE. At least that's my recollection of what was said. The "white" is my own addition. But it was clearly intended by what he was saying.
A Native American friend has told stories of being told the same thing.
See? I've always thought racists were just that stupid. My early experience with them were the toothless, illiterate hillbillies who lived in shacks and drank brain melting moon shine. They were mean and stupid and desperately needed someone to feel superior to. That's why I find it so hard to get my head around someone like Trump being a racist.
Yeah, that kind of view is a problem. Assuming that racists are all uneducated and poor tends to lead to blind spots about people like Trump. "He can't be racist, he's rich!" ignores most of American history.
Trump is now claiming that he was advocating a more "love it or leave it" message than came across. That non-white progressive women should leave America because they're always badmouthing it. Remember, this comes from the man who used his inaugural address (a.k.a. the "American carnage" speech) to badmouth America for almost an hour, not to mention the content of his Twitter feed during the Obama administration.
A Native American friend has told stories of being told the same thing.
See? I've always thought racists were just that stupid. My early experience with them were the toothless, illiterate hillbillies who lived in shacks and drank brain melting moon shine. They were mean and stupid and desperately needed someone to feel superior to. That's why I find it so hard to get my head around someone like Trump being a racist.
Yeah, that kind of view is a problem. Assuming that racists are all uneducated and poor tends to lead to blind spots about people like Trump. "He can't be racist, he's rich!" ignores most of American history.
Trump is now claiming that he was advocating a more "love it or leave it" message than came across. That non-white progressive women should leave America because they're always badmouthing it. Remember, this comes from the man who used his inaugural address (a.k.a. the "American carnage" speech) to badmouth America for almost an hour, not to mention the content of his Twitter feed during the Obama administration.
Actually, if Trump were not the president, I wouldn't consider there to be much remarkable about his racial commentary, and it wouldn't strike me as the exclusive domain of illiterate hillbillies.
I've known lots of armchair pundits who have pretty much said everything that Trump has said about minorities, and they were all relatively prosperous, middle-class suburbanites. "They should go back and fix their own countries" is a fairly common refrain, possibly rationalized by the speaker's ostensible praise for the talents of the people he wants to deport, and also by the professed concern for the welfare of the other nations.
A Native American friend has told stories of being told the same thing.
See? I've always thought racists were just that stupid. My early experience with them were the toothless, illiterate hillbillies who lived in shacks and drank brain melting moon shine. They were mean and stupid and desperately needed someone to feel superior to. That's why I find it so hard to get my head around someone like Trump being a racist.
Yeah, that kind of view is a problem. Assuming that racists are all uneducated and poor tends to lead to blind spots about people like Trump. "He can't be racist, he's rich!" ignores most of American history.
What I said was that my early experience of racists was of the dumb and uneducated and it was. Are you going to tell me I met lots of millionaires on Gulf Mountain Road in West Virginia? I could understand their racism a little more because many of them actually did have sub-normal IQ's. Why you took from that "He can't be racist because he's rich," I don't know. Of course rich, well-educated people can be racist, I just think they have less excuse, and I don't know what the "problem" is with thinking that.
The CBC had it that racism is a winning political strategy. And that trumpy tries out ideas on Twitter, deciding later if he likes them or will move on. I expect, like most leaders in politics and business, that he has a media team he works out his sh** with. He can't say "nigger" except in private or can he? Maybe it's coming or maybe it will continue to be everything but the N word. Racism has become acceptable again. trumpy may feel that by winning the Twitter battle, he'll win re-election.
"Australia: love it or leave it" was a bumper sticker I saw far too often in Australia. It is fine for white people to criticise the way the country is, but once an uppity immigrant (or second- or third-generation non-white person) starts suggesting things aren't perfect they're told to pack their bags and leave.
I swore off this thread as my blood boiled. But his recent tweets brought me back. I realise what he is doing, or trying to do, but I still cannot fathom it. Let alone think what impact it has had on the mental well-being of those four women, and immigrants. I think I said this before, but being in secondary school in the early 90s, in one of the most diverse councils in the country, I thought the world would be a better place in terms of different cultures in the new millennium -- I was amazingly pathetic in my naivety.
Latest tally shows 17 cabinet members of the Trump administration have resigned or been fired. At the same point in Obama's administration, none had left. Even during the Bush administration, only one cabinet member had left.
I haven't been involved in the game - as an outsider I haven't got a dog in the fight - but from what I read on the interweb, it seems the most likely LSS would be either Cruella De Vos (isn't her family bankrolling the Cheeto?) or possibly Elaine Chao (Mrs. Turtle), because her husband seems to be making sure that nothing happens in the Senate that might upset him*.
* or perhaps just that nothing happens in the Senate at all
trump is going to bomb Iran, or otherwise do a 1939 "Poland attacked us" first. Because he, for no reason at all except political gain, withdrew USA from the Iran nuclear deal, and is threatening every other country with sanctions of they don't do what this bully wants. Which has no basis in anything. America's foreign policy, does it have one? Didn't think so with this gang.
I am starting a new thread in Purgatory about "reasons" and prospects for such a war.
Latest tally shows 17 cabinet members of the Trump administration have resigned or been fired. At the same point in Obama's administration, none had left. Even during the Bush administration, only one cabinet member had left.
If I was a "best person" I wouldn't want to be hired by him.
Whenever Mr Trump tweets he is aiming at the people he thinks might vote for him next time round. He knows that there is no point trying to appeal to everyone so the people he upsets become merely collateral damage. And their outrage feeds into the cauldron of prejudice that he is simmering.
If/when he is re-elected he will continue to do this even though he won't be able to go for a third term (probably) because he also wants to stoke up his support for vanity purposes if nothing else.
Whenever Mr Trump tweets he is aiming at the people he thinks might vote for him next time round. He knows that there is no point trying to appeal to everyone so the people he upsets become merely collateral damage. And their outrage feeds into the cauldron of prejudice that he is simmering.
What I said was that my early experience of racists was of the dumb and uneducated and it was. Are you going to tell me I met lots of millionaires on Gulf Mountain Road in West Virginia? I could understand their racism a little more because many of them actually did have sub-normal IQ's. Why you took from that "He can't be racist because he's rich," I don't know. Of course rich, well-educated people can be racist, I just think they have less excuse, and I don't know what the "problem" is with thinking that.
The problem is that perpetuating the myth of racism as an artifact of the lower classes is a historic misunderstanding of racism (as well as being a prejudice in itself). Historically the biggest promoters of American racism have been men of means who attended "the best schools", from John Calhoun to Strom Thurmond to Donald Trump. Contrary to your claims, rich and well-educated people can have more excuse to be racist. After all, poor racists only receive what W.E.B. Du Bois referred to as the "psychological wage" of whiteness (higher social status in the absence of any material benefit) whereas the rich and well-educated often benefit materially from America's racial caste system. For example, the first time Donald Trump was quoted in the New York Times was in October 1973 denying that he engaged in racial discrimination in his rental properties.
I understood that Twilight was surprised at Trump, because she'd generally met poor white racists who needed someone to look down on. I didn't get the sense that she wanted to make any kind of generalisation out of that - that poor folks were more likely to be racist than rich, for example. More that the motivation of rich racists was a bit harder to pin down.
Are we learning that racism and related extremism in the USA are not considered as extreme as we might expect by the mainstream? That the reason racism is tolerated and may be successful for trumpy is that it expresses some fundamental things about the country and yearnings for some sort of golden age where black people 'knew their place' and didn't mix with Christian white folks?
From my experience with exploring my family's German heritage, extreme views may be a tip of the iceberg that's connected in a deep sins-of-the-ancestors way to basis of the society. The racist behaviour follows the expression of this collective unconscious foundation. Hence inadequate expression of revulsion and repudiation. Until there's atrocity.
Are we learning that racism and related extremism in the USA are not considered as extreme as we might expect by the mainstream? That the reason racism is tolerated and may be successful for trumpy is that it expresses some fundamental things about the country and yearnings for some sort of golden age where black people 'knew their place' and didn't mix with Christian white folks?
This assessment only makes sense if we take "the country" to mean (a specific subset of) white people. In other words, it implicitly buys into Trump's narrative.
Are we learning that racism and related extremism in the USA are not considered as extreme as we might expect by the mainstream? That the reason racism is tolerated and may be successful for trumpy is that it expresses some fundamental things about the country and yearnings for some sort of golden age where black people 'knew their place' and didn't mix with Christian white folks?
This assessment only makes sense if we take "the country" to mean (a specific subset of) white people. In other words, it implicitly buys into Trump's narrative.
That's extremely perceptive. Thank-you. Get another narrative out into the twitter-universe.
The problem is that perpetuating the myth of racism as an artifact of the lower classes is a historic misunderstanding of racism (as well as being a prejudice in itself). Historically the biggest promoters of American racism have been men of means who attended "the best schools", from John Calhoun to Strom Thurmond to Donald Trump.
I remember being somewhat shocked (I should not have, having worked with many "educated people" and heard their comments on immigrants or those from developing nations) reading Everybody Lies by Seth Stephens‑Davidowitz, and reading of the spikes in racist searches during Trump's ascendancy to the Republican throne. I've returned the book to the library, but this article gives a flavour:
But Stephens-Davidowitz saw clues in his Google research that suggested Trump was far more serious than many supposed. Searches containing racist epithets and jokes were spiking across the country during Trump’s primary run, and not merely in the South but in upstate New York, Western Pennsylvania, Eastern Ohio, rural Illinois, West Virginia, and industrial Michigan.
Stephens-Davidowitz saw in the Google Trends data a racially polarized electorate, and one primed to respond to the ethno-nationalist rhetoric of Trump.
There were earlier signs, too. On Obama’s 2008 election night, Stephens-Davidowitz found that “one in every hundred Google searches that included the word ‘Obama’ also included ‘KKK’” or the n-word. Searches for racist websites like Stormfront also spiked.
Nice. Who cares what the reporter asked after that? Race is the issue.
It is frightening how "normalised" [not sure that's the word I want, but it's all I can find] this is becoming. Just throw in a casual, "Where are you from?" Are they setting up the battleground for 2020 now? Is this where they want to go and the level of debate they want? I suppose I should not be surprised, but it is a car wreck to behold to me. Yet some will love it I suppose. I made the mistake of reading the comments on a BBC Facebook post about the initial tweets...while I'm sure some were trolls there were the true believers.
Comments
How long, O Lord, how long?
And the visit was obviously "sanitized."
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The geographic and social differences would be just the beginning of the headaches. Iran has more and better friends in the region and the ability to inflict devastating damage on US allies that would sent shockwaves throughout the world economy. As for the IDF, they used to be a great army but in the past few decades their primary combat experience has been stomping poorly organized militia and terrorizing civilians. The one time they went up against a real army was when they fought Hezbollah in 2006 and it did not go well for them. So I’m guessing they’re hesitant to mess with Iran themselves.
There's already an acting (who was confirmed by the Senate on an exact party line vote), and yup, Pizzella's worse. Way worse. Like, joined with a corrupt lobbyist to protect sweatshops in American territory worse. It's going to be a very, very interesting year and a half trying to fight tooth and nail to slow down or stop folks who, under more moderate leadership, proposed allowing teenagers to work in hazardous occupations.
It's good for Israel to have a realistic view of its military capacity. They were too gung ho for a long time. I hope a newfound realism will bring them back to the negotiating table when a different President can greenlight a peace process somewhere quiet and out of the media glare.
It keeps getting worse, but it's going to get additionally worse isn't it? Something is terribly broken in this "democracy" and it's not just him. Failure to confront and control him.
Three of the congresswomen mentioned were born in the U.S. and the 4th congresswoman was brought to this country legally as a small child and is a U.S. citizen. Trump’s tweets make his racism glaringly obvious. The only people he considers true citizens are white people.
I was more referring to his tactic of using tariffs to bring countries in line. Do what I want or I will make it difficult for you to trade with us. Business tactics. They are all he has, diplomacy us not one of his strengths
Do people reckon the racist element of Trump's attack on the fab four was deliberate?
I reckon it was.
At one time, "Go back to where you came from," was a very common racial slur for racist dolts to shout at African Americans. It was heard a lot during the Civil Rights marches of the 60's. Only after many years of pointing out the irony of this statement (since they hadn't come willingly in the first place) did the phrase lose popularity. Now, I would imagine, only the most ignorant and hateful KKK member say such a thing. And our president.
He is white and came from London.
See? I've always thought racists were just that stupid. My early experience with them were the toothless, illiterate hillbillies who lived in shacks and drank brain melting moon shine. They were mean and stupid and desperately needed someone to feel superior to. That's why I find it so hard to get my head around someone like Trump being a racist. I thought his entire value system was based on who had the most money and all races have some rich people.
Dammit, two of the Donald’s three wives were born outside the USA, including the “First” Lady.
Yeah, that kind of view is a problem. Assuming that racists are all uneducated and poor tends to lead to blind spots about people like Trump. "He can't be racist, he's rich!" ignores most of American history.
Trump is now claiming that he was advocating a more "love it or leave it" message than came across. That non-white progressive women should leave America because they're always badmouthing it. Remember, this comes from the man who used his inaugural address (a.k.a. the "American carnage" speech) to badmouth America for almost an hour, not to mention the content of his Twitter feed during the Obama administration.
Actually, if Trump were not the president, I wouldn't consider there to be much remarkable about his racial commentary, and it wouldn't strike me as the exclusive domain of illiterate hillbillies.
I've known lots of armchair pundits who have pretty much said everything that Trump has said about minorities, and they were all relatively prosperous, middle-class suburbanites. "They should go back and fix their own countries" is a fairly common refrain, possibly rationalized by the speaker's ostensible praise for the talents of the people he wants to deport, and also by the professed concern for the welfare of the other nations.
I swore off this thread as my blood boiled. But his recent tweets brought me back. I realise what he is doing, or trying to do, but I still cannot fathom it. Let alone think what impact it has had on the mental well-being of those four women, and immigrants. I think I said this before, but being in secondary school in the early 90s, in one of the most diverse councils in the country, I thought the world would be a better place in terms of different cultures in the new millennium -- I was amazingly pathetic in my naivety.
What does this suggest? Someone is very unstable.
Prove me wrong.
Might as well do something positive (?) with the unstableness of the situation.
* or perhaps just that nothing happens in the Senate at all
I am starting a new thread in Purgatory about "reasons" and prospects for such a war.
But he was only going to hire the best people!
Whenever Mr Trump tweets he is aiming at the people he thinks might vote for him next time round. He knows that there is no point trying to appeal to everyone so the people he upsets become merely collateral damage. And their outrage feeds into the cauldron of prejudice that he is simmering.
If/when he is re-elected he will continue to do this even though he won't be able to go for a third term (probably) because he also wants to stoke up his support for vanity purposes if nothing else.
According to CBS News:
The problem is that perpetuating the myth of racism as an artifact of the lower classes is a historic misunderstanding of racism (as well as being a prejudice in itself). Historically the biggest promoters of American racism have been men of means who attended "the best schools", from John Calhoun to Strom Thurmond to Donald Trump. Contrary to your claims, rich and well-educated people can have more excuse to be racist. After all, poor racists only receive what W.E.B. Du Bois referred to as the "psychological wage" of whiteness (higher social status in the absence of any material benefit) whereas the rich and well-educated often benefit materially from America's racial caste system. For example, the first time Donald Trump was quoted in the New York Times was in October 1973 denying that he engaged in racial discrimination in his rental properties.
From my experience with exploring my family's German heritage, extreme views may be a tip of the iceberg that's connected in a deep sins-of-the-ancestors way to basis of the society. The racist behaviour follows the expression of this collective unconscious foundation. Hence inadequate expression of revulsion and repudiation. Until there's atrocity.
This assessment only makes sense if we take "the country" to mean (a specific subset of) white people. In other words, it implicitly buys into Trump's narrative.
That's extremely perceptive. Thank-you. Get another narrative out into the twitter-universe.
Now I'm going off to have a little upchuck.
Nice. Who cares what the reporter asked after that? Race is the issue.
I am sorry.
It is frightening how "normalised" [not sure that's the word I want, but it's all I can find] this is becoming. Just throw in a casual, "Where are you from?" Are they setting up the battleground for 2020 now? Is this where they want to go and the level of debate they want? I suppose I should not be surprised, but it is a car wreck to behold to me. Yet some will love it I suppose. I made the mistake of reading the comments on a BBC Facebook post about the initial tweets...while I'm sure some were trolls there were the true believers.