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Purgatory: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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Comments

  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I disagree that its a childhood attitude, but agree that a politician can't operate on that basis. What a politician says and how they operate are two different things of course. Trump is speaking to his audience, not us.
  • edited May 2020
    Oops, indeed :smile:

    I'm not the classiest guy in the world, but the vulgarity of the gesture (Matt 6 v2) and the woman with eye-lashes like draught-excluders, really made me smile.

    (Actually, I don't want to think about bowing Trump's trumpet, in the streets, synagogue or anywhere else).
  • O I do hope someone, somewhere, is now hacking into his $$$millions...

    Bad me...
    :naughty:
  • windsofchangewindsofchange Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Because I posted in this thread way back in 2018, and some people might be reading through it now and wondering, YES I have changed my position on Trump since my earlier comments.

    At this point I would vote for a dead tree stump if it were the only other candidate on the ballot in November.

    Just wanted to get that out there, for the official record. (I'm still doing the long, meditative hikes, though. :wink: )
    (March 2018):

    And now, folks, because I really, really do not want to get sucked into a long discussion which will almost certainly not change anyone's mind (trust me, these things rarely do), and because out here on the West Coast there's a big storm heading our way this afternoon, I'm going to walk out of this thread, out the front door, and into the fine, brisk pre-spring weather, for a long, meditative hike. Hope you all enjoy your day as well!

  • Brave of you to make the admission, and, hopefully, you'll not be the only one to change course...
    :wink:
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Because I posted in this thread way back in 2018, and some people might be reading through it now and wondering, YES I have changed my position on Trump since my earlier comments.

    At this point I would vote for a dead tree stump if it were the only other candidate on the ballot in November.

    Just wanted to get that out there, for the official record. (I'm still doing the long, meditative hikes, though. :wink: )
    (March 2018):

    And now, folks, because I really, really do not want to get sucked into a long discussion which will almost certainly not change anyone's mind (trust me, these things rarely do), and because out here on the West Coast there's a big storm heading our way this afternoon, I'm going to walk out of this thread, out the front door, and into the fine, brisk pre-spring weather, for a long, meditative hike. Hope you all enjoy your day as well!

    Now, if we can get 79,999 other voters to change their minds in the swing states...

    Welcome back, @windsofchange.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    Actually I think @windsofchange probably is quite typical of the kind of person who might change their mind, assuming her avatar photo is the lady herself. AFAICT white women are constituency where Trump is losing ground.
  • Actually I think @windsofchange probably is quite typical of the kind of person who might change their mind, assuming her avatar photo is the lady herself. AFAICT white women are constituency where Trump is losing ground.

    Yeah, that is me in my avatar, trying to look prayerful and serious, while secretly wondering when the next "Three Stooges" marathon starts ...
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Hmmmmm. An interesting conflict brewing. As you may have read, Twitter tagged a "fact check" to one (or was it two) of Trump's tweets concerning mail-in ballots. Which, of course, enraged him because he hates people pointing out his blatant lies. So Trump responded in character:
    Claiming "Republicans feel that Social Media Platforms totally silence conservatives voices," Trump tweeted, "We will strongly regulate, or close them down, before we can ever allow this to happen."
    That is not the interesting bit. That is typical Trump behavior. No, the interesting bit is that, a couple hours later, Secretary of State Pompeo tweeted:
    "The U.S. stands against, and will not tolerate, government-imposed Internet shutdowns and other forms of censorship during or after this pandemic," Pompeo tweeted Wednesday.
    My, my, my. Might want to make a fresh batch of popcorn.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Nah, that's just another case of "your shutdowns and censorship shouldn't get in the way of our prudent regulations".
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    On top of that, 45 has come out saying that police should not be held accountable for killing yet another unarmed black man who was handcuffed and not resisting arrest.

    And he has mocked Biden for wearing a mask while laying a wreath at a war memorial in Delaware. Something about getting out of his basement. To which Biden has said, considering the polls right now, he is doing pretty well. If the election were held today, Biden would get 283 electoral votes with the Republicans getting 126. There are several states that are toss-ups, but even they are moving from deep red to pink.
  • I'm afraid I'm rather clueless as to the US electoral system, but does the 283-126 figure mean that, if an election were held today, Mr Biden would win by a massive majority?
    :open_mouth:
  • I'm afraid I'm rather clueless as to the US electoral system, but does the 283-126 figure mean that, if an election were held today, Mr Biden would win by a massive majority?
    :open_mouth:

    I think the winning post is 270, so it indicates a win even if all the states that are close go Republican.
  • Well, there's hope yet, it seems!
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Can anyone really believe that Trump would shut down Twitter? It's his chief form of communication.
  • Wouldn't he keep it open solely for his own Twitterings (or whatever they're called)?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    I'm afraid I'm rather clueless as to the US electoral system, but does the 283-126 figure mean that, if an election were held today, Mr Biden would win by a massive majority?

    The election of the American president (and vice president) is a Constitutional Frankenstein's monster of a system that was cobbled together because the Framers couldn't agree on a better system. If the U.S. Constitution were written twenty, or possibly even ten, years later a different system would almost certainly have been adopted.

    Basically each state gets one electoral vote for each member of Congress (House and Senate) that it has. Since all states have two Senators and at least one member of the House of Representatives that means the minimum number of electoral votes per state is three. Under the Twenty-Third Amendment the District of Columbia also gets a number of electoral votes equal to the number they'd get if they were a state. That brings the total number of electoral votes to 538. (435 members of the House + 100 Senators + 3 electors from DC)

    Most states assign their electoral votes on a winner-take-all basis, meaning that the plurality vote-getter in the state gets all their electoral votes, regardless of how close the margin is. (Maine and Nebraska are exceptions to this and subdivide their electoral votes by Congressional District.) The upshot of this is that it's possible to win by very narrow margins in just enough states to get to 270 electoral votes (the winning number) and lose overwhelmingly elsewhere, which would give you the situation of the candidate who won the presidency losing the popular vote. This has happened in two of the last five presidential elections.

    The current system awards more electoral votes to sparsely-populated rural states than would be justified strictly based on their population. Because of this there's estimated to be about a three point pro-Republican bias in the electoral college. In other words, as long as a Republican loses the national popular vote by no more than three percentage points he still has a decent shot at winning the presidency anyway, depending on the state-by-state breakdown.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    As far as a Biden-Trump matchup goes, current polling has Biden leading Trump by a margin of about eight percentage points, so that's outside the three point edge Republicans typically have in the electoral college. For context, the 2008 (Obama over McCain), 1996 (Clinton over Dole and Perot), and 1988 (Bush, Sr. over Dukakis) elections all had about an eight point margin in the popular vote. That said, Biden's current margin will probably narrow as election day gets closer.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    As far as a Biden-Trump matchup goes, current polling has Biden leading Trump by a margin of about eight percentage points, so that's outside the three point edge Republicans typically have in the electoral college. For context, the 2008 (Obama over McCain), 1996 (Clinton over Dole and Perot), and 1988 (Bush, Sr. over Dukakis) elections all had about an eight point margin in the popular vote. That said, Biden's current margin will probably narrow as election day gets closer.

    Not necessarily, Biden's spread has increased over the last three months. 45 keeps putting his foot in his mouth, making all sorts of threats, trying to intimidate people. His handling of the Coronavirus is pathetic. He hopes to turn the economy around on a dime, but it probably will get worse before it gets better,
  • Thanks for the helpful explanations. One can only wish Mr Biden well, and hope for the best.
  • edited May 2020
    Sarah Cooper is very good at lip sinking the man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdlwokkS4DA

    Series of videos, worth more than a lot of other viewing.

  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Can anyone really believe that Trump would shut down Twitter? It's his chief form of communication.

    ;) Maybe that would be his form of wearing a mask? ;)
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    There was an email server, I forget the name, back in the day which was forced by the FBI or some other fascist organization to give up all the data on its users. Rather than let that happen, it shut down overnight and destroyed all its data. Twitter could do that.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Has he considered how badly he might lose if he killed social media?
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Has he considered how badly he might lose if he killed social media?

    Has he ever taken the possible fallout of his actions into account in his decision-making?
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    There was an email server, I forget the name, back in the day which was forced by the FBI or some other fascist organization to give up all the data on its users. Rather than let that happen, it shut down overnight and destroyed all its data. Twitter could do that.

    Lavabit?
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Has he ever taken the possible fallout of his actions into account in his decision-making?
    No. Never.

    He'll blame Obama or the Clintons or the press or...
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    There was an email server, I forget the name, back in the day which was forced by the FBI or some other fascist organization to give up all the data on its users. Rather than let that happen, it shut down overnight and destroyed all its data. Twitter could do that.

    Lavabit?

    That must be it.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Can anyone really believe that Trump would shut down Twitter? It's his chief form of communication.

    It would at least constitute one outstanding achievement in his presidency.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    :not_worthy
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    :notworthyeither:
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    :okstopthehumblebragging:
    ;)
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    {Not sure the best place to put this, but will start here.}

    Remember Steve Bannon, erstwhile advisor to T? You're not going to believe it.

    "Steve Bannon wins case to set up Italy political academy" (Reuters, via Yahoo).

    No offense to Italy (especially given what a mess my country is!), but somehow I don't think they need outsourced tutoring in right-wing political meddling.

    And don't miss the next-to-last paragraph.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Golden Key wrote: »
    {Not sure the best place to put this, but will start here.}

    Remember Steve Bannon, erstwhile advisor to T? You're not going to believe it.

    "Steve Bannon wins case to set up Italy political academy" (Reuters, via Yahoo).

    No offense to Italy (especially given what a mess my country is!), but somehow I don't think they need outsourced tutoring in right-wing political meddling.

    And don't miss the next-to-last paragraph.

    Having read the link I was struck by the advert it contained for, "One in box to juggle them all in". Was it meant to make me think of the One Ring?
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    The Trump diversionary tactics are in full swing. "Let's get the news cycle off the 100 thousand and the constant replaying of my dismissive comments. Let's start wars on face masks and Twitter. Let's insult Biden again And let's ramp up Obamagate." And on the day of the 100 thousand deaths, Eric Trump tweets "Great day for the DOW". Both shameful and shameless

    Don't think it's going to work. Cracks are appearing amongst the faithful.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Tweeting his dislike of twitter.

    Hilarious! :lol: :lol:
  • Twitter should have deleted the Troll-in-Chief's account ages ago. If they can't do that then maybe they deserve to be shut down. Even the Ship makes trolls walk the plank.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    RA--

    Doesn't show that ad for me, but probably. :)
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re possibly deleting T's Twitter account:

    I've been wondering about that. I'm not on Twitter. Has he broken the rules sufficiently that another person doing the same would lose their account?

    T would continue threatening all kinds of things, if deleted. Could he make them happen?

    And...if
    --a massively broken, disturbed, dysfunctional person
    --with a whole lotta power
    --loses his favorite way of commenting on the world (never mind it's his fault)
    --is getting less and less public approval
    --is losing some of his base
    --feels he's in danger of not being re-elected
    --and his whole self is built on desperately, painfully needing absolute attention, respect, acclaim, and (hopefully) love...

    What might such a person do?
    :shudder:

    (I'm not thinking self-harm.)
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Re possibly deleting T's Twitter account:

    I've been wondering about that. I'm not on Twitter. Has he broken the rules sufficiently that another person doing the same would lose their account?

    Yes, massively so. Twitter put in an exemption to their rules for him.
  • A scary thought, but what could he do?

    Not everyone in the White House is as bonkers as he is [citation needed], so presumably he couldn't suddenly order a nuclear attack on every State that doesn't support him...
    :flushed:
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Thx. I wonder if Mark Z ever wishes he could go back in time to college, and *not* start Facebook?
  • A scary thought, but what could he do?

    Not everyone in the White House is as bonkers as he is [citation needed], so presumably he couldn't suddenly order a nuclear attack on every State that doesn't support him...
    :flushed:

    In theory that would be an illegal order and the hope would be that someone in the chain of command would refuse to follow it. In practice? Let's just say I hope we never find out.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Twitter should have deleted the Troll-in-Chief's account ages ago. If they can't do that then maybe they deserve to be shut down. Even the Ship makes trolls walk the plank.

    The difference is that we don't rely on ad revenue. Remember that on free-market social media, users are the product, and I'm sure Trump is a cash cow for Twitter.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    I've sometimes thought he should watch the movie "War Games"--except he'd take exactly the wrong lesson from it. Instead of "Strange game--the only winning move is not to play", T's version would be "HA! I can win! What does this button do? Blow the rest of the planet to smithereens? Cool."
    {Pushes button.}
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Re possibly deleting T's Twitter account:

    I've been wondering about that. I'm not on Twitter. Has he broken the rules sufficiently that another person doing the same would lose their account?

    Complicating this is that Trump's posted Tweets are arguably presidential records and are theoretically protected under the Presidential Records Act, which would make deleting them a crime.
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Thx. I wonder if Mark Z ever wishes he could go back in time to college, and *not* start Facebook?

    Zuckerberg seems quite comfortable with his decision. Interestingly Facebook's allergy to being "the arbiter of truth" doesn't seem to apply to anti-Trump ads.
  • Twitter is useful for our community board. Easy place to put out info. I use an app called "Tinfoil for Twitter". Twitter tracks phone users like Facebook and other social media platforms. The Tinfoil version allows you to instantly "kill" (shut down totally) twitter. There's also Tinfoil for Facebook, which does the same thing.

    So you're right that social media is about tracking but it is possible to avoid it entirely while still using it when necessary.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I've sometimes thought he should watch the movie "War Games"--except he'd take exactly the wrong lesson from it. Instead of "Strange game--the only winning move is not to play", T's version would be "HA! I can win! What does this button do? Blow the rest of the planet to smithereens? Cool."
    {Pushes button.}

    You beat me to it. I was just about to post a reminder that he has the nuclear codes. He could cause the bigliest nuclear war. Obama never started a war that big!
  • Let's rename Twitter to Covid-19 so he can worry about something that actually is of importance.
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