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Purgatory: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Talking of his narcissism, I'm fascinated by the account of Donald Trump's family as revealed in his niece's memoir, uncovering a truly monstrous, medacious and sadistic family. There's no doubt that with a father who was a 'high-functioning sociopath', an emotionally battered mother and despised alcoholic brother, Donald grew up competing for attention by any means possible, never checked or cared for, thriving on displays of cruelty, bullying and grandiose dishonesty. I'm often wary of family memoirs told by someone who has an axe to grind, but this all sounds not just plausible but convincing, just the kind of dynamics that would produce a power-mad ruthless egoist. I'm looking forward to the movie...
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Mary Trump is a clinical psychologist which adds a certain credibility to her account. I liked this quote from the link.
    Of the day after Trump’s victory, she writes, “I was wandering around my house, as traumatized as many other people but in a more personal way: it felt as though 62,979,636 voters had chosen to turn this country into a macro version of my malignantly dysfunctional family.”

    From this side of the pond it looks as though something along those lines has happened.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Yup.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    There are many things in life I cannot check up at all. Some I believe, some I don't, depending on how plausible they are. This book sounds plausible.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And, frankly, Pres. Obama helped spark T's 2016 run. They were at the annual dinner and comedy roast for the White House press corps. Lots of witty/caustic/apt humor. A couple of comedians performed. Then Obama took the stage for a few minutes, doing his own standup comedy. Aaaand he poked at T. (None too nicely, IIRC.) Possibly about ambitions to power, or some such. T was none too pleased, and the camera caught his face. And IMHO things were set into motion.

    It was the 2011 White House Correspondents Dinner and most of the digs were about Trump's endorsement of the birther conspiracy theory, so on a certain level Trump asked for it. Here's the (edited) video for those who are interested. (The editing mostly consists of cutting out the non-Trump-related parts of Obama's speech. For those who want to see Obama's remarks in full, C-SPAN's got you covered. The intro is brutal, so of course I recommend it.)
    Golden Key wrote: »
    It would've been better for everyone (T included) if he didn't run this time, or quit, or stormed off. But he's doubling down on his bets, and putting everything into this election.

    I'm not so sure about that. At least part of Trump's desire for re-election is running out the five year statute of limitations on certain election-related laws. (i.e. the stuff Michael Cohen 86067-054 is currently serving time for at Otisville Federal Correctional Institution.)
    There are many things in life I cannot check up at all. Some I believe, some I don't, depending on how plausible they are. This book sounds plausible.

    As blogger Paul Campos put it:
    The most shocking aspect of these shocking revelations is that not a single one of then is even slightly shocking.

    At least not to anyone who's been paying any attention to Trump since he descended that golden escalator.
  • So why the heck was a guy from a "reality" television show even at the White House Correspondents Dinner?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited July 2020
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    So why the heck was a guy from a "reality" television show even at the White House Correspondents Dinner?

    Well, Trump was a bit more than just a reality-show host. He was also a fairly prominent figure in NYC business and social life, who knew and was on friendly terms with a lot of important people, including, it is reported, the Clintons.

    So this probably wasn't quite as ludicrous as, say, "Let's invite the winning couple from Who Wants To Date A Porn Star? to the Correspondents Dinner."

    (Granted, though, at the end of the day, Trump was probably more just "famous for being famous" than anything else.)
  • The White House Correspondents' Association plays host - you don't have to be a correspondent to be invited.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The White House Correspondents dinner is open to invited guests. Not only correspondents but also politicians from both parties and their guests, notable stars and the like. I am thinking he was invited by someone, whom I do not know.

    I do note since taking office, he has refused to participate in the White House Correspondent's Dinner. They still have had it in spite of his absence,

    The dinners, by the way, started in 1921. Calvin Coolidge was the first president to attend. It was a men's only dinner until John F. Kennedy became president. He said he would not go if women were not also included. There have been a few dinners that did not happen due to extenuating circumstances.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Penny--

    Actual, card-carrying party members? Sympathizers? People who wear Birkenstocks, tie-dyed clothes, and vacation in the "People's Republic Of Berkeley", California?
    ;)

    Can't answer for that! Maybe next time we meet I'll wear sandals and Batik and see what the reaction is. I only know what I was told. (I believe the source was some New Zealander called Loudon.) I haven't owned up to being an anarcho-syndicalist yet. Not sure a card carrying Tory would know what to make of that.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Penny--

    Actual, card-carrying party members? Sympathizers? People who wear Birkenstocks, tie-dyed clothes, and vacation in the "People's Republic Of Berkeley", California?
    ;)

    I remember seeing a video clip of someone explaining that Richard Nixon (of all people) was a communist, but he wasn't a card carrying communist, because he was smart enough to know that someone might search him and find the card.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    ;) Well, Nixon appeared on "Laugh In" for a "Sock it to me!" segment, so he must've been a commie. ;)

    (Rather wild comedy/variety show from the '60s/'70s. He said the line awkwardly, but seemed to be having fun!)
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    ;) Well, Nixon appeared on "Laugh In" for a "Sock it to me!" segment, so he must've been a commie. ;)

    (Rather wild comedy/variety show from the '60s/'70s. He said the line awkwardly, but seemed to be having fun!)

    And for reference, it spawned the career of Goldie Hawn. (Also a few other semi-notables, such as Arte Johnson and Ruth Buzzi, whose later careers tended to remain mired in the 1970s bad-TV and slapstick comedy ghetto.)





  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"
  • As a teenager, the ONLY television I watched was "Laugh-In."
    :smile:
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited July 2020
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"

    I don't recall ever seeing him on Laugh-In(which I watched in 80s re-runs), and his wiki page doesn't have anything about his being on the show. They do mention Wilson collaborating on a musical later in the 70s, with a composer from show.

    Sammy Davis jr. WAS on the show a few times, and I believe that's where he popularized Here Come Da Judge.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    This just in: SCOTUS has ruled 7-2 that Trump must release his tax records to the Grand Jury of New York State. On the other hand, the same court 7-2 has said Congress has yet to show sufficient cause to subpoena Trump's financial records and has sent it back to the lower courts. Win some, lose some.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    This just in: SCOTUS has ruled 7-2 that Trump must release his tax records to the Grand Jury of New York State. On the other hand, the same court 7-2 has said Congress has yet to show sufficient cause to subpoena Trump's financial records and has sent it back to the lower courts. Win some, lose some.

    Both cases were sent back down to lower courts for further review, so John Roberts has apparently decided that running out the clock is the way to go on this.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    This just in: SCOTUS has ruled 7-2 that Trump must release his tax records to the Grand Jury of New York State. On the other hand, the same court 7-2 has said Congress has yet to show sufficient cause to subpoena Trump's financial records and has sent it back to the lower courts. Win some, lose some.

    Both cases were sent back down to lower courts for further review, so John Roberts has apparently decided that running out the clock is the way to go on this.

    CNBC is reporting that Trump does have to release his records to the Grand Jury. Now, Trump may want to try to fight it, but records will be going to the Grand Jury since the request was through third parties, bank records, accountant information and that.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    CNBC is reporting that Trump does have to release his records to the Grand Jury. Now, Trump may want to try to fight it, but records will be going to the Grand Jury since the request was through third parties, bank records, accountant information and that.

    From the opinion [PDF]:
    The arguments presented here and in the Court of Appeals were limited to absolute immunity and heightened need. The Court of Appeals, however, has directed that the case be returned to the District Court, where the President may raise further arguments as appropriate. 941 F. 3d, at 646, n. 19.*

    We affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeals and remand the case for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

    * The daylight between our opinion and JUSTICE THOMAS’s “dissent” is not as great as that label might suggest. Post, at 12. We agree that Presidents are neither absolutely immune from state criminal subpoenas nor insulated by a heightened need standard. Post, at 6, 11, n. 3. We agree that Presidents may challenge specific subpoenas as impeding their Article II functions. Post, at 6–7. And, although we affirm while JUSTICE THOMAS would vacate, we agree that this case will be remanded to the District Court. Post, at 12.

    In other words this opinion dealt solely with the question of whether the president has absolute immunity from state judicial proceedings. Robert ruled that the president does not have such immunity, but that the case should be returned to the District Court where Trump may file any other objections to the subpœna he might have.

    Or as someone else put it, the Supreme Court ruled against the doctrine of presidential immunity, but post-dated the opinion to the Biden administration.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Well, at least SCOTUS has agreed the President does not have absolute immunity.
  • TukaiTukai Shipmate
    A report reached us on the other side of the Pacific that Trump and his press secretary have been claiming that America is a world leader on coronavirus.

    I think he actually claimed "world leader on management of coronavirus" but the statistics (on another thread in Purgatory) indicate that his leadership is on the indicators of most number of deaths and most number of cases, which indicates the opposite of what he said.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Easily explained, Tukai. He doesn't understand numbers.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    But seriously folks. It does add credibility to the assertion that he paid someone to take his SATS. You have to have a truly massive blind spot to think that "the 1/100th time" is the same as "the one hundredth time".

    Trump has blind spots about lots of things. But primarily his own ignorance.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    But seriously folks. It does add credibility to the assertion that he paid someone to take his SATS. You have to have a truly massive blind spot to think that "the 1/100th time" is the same as "the one hundredth time".

    Trump has blind spots about lots of things. But primarily his own ignorance.

    Dunning-Krueger on steroids. Or rather, it is alleged, amphetamines.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    :mrgreen:

    (Worth a click)
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Tukai wrote: »
    A report reached us on the other side of the Pacific that Trump and his press secretary have been claiming that America is a world leader on coronavirus.

    Well, the U.S. does lead the world in number of SARS-CoV-2 infections and in total number of COVID-19 deaths, so that's leadership of a sort.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Easily explained, Tukai. He doesn't understand numbers.

    I think he doesn't understand most things.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Trump is getting more and more paranoid. Today he is upset that the wall that was built along the Rio Grande by a private group on his behalf was built to embarrass him. The wall had been built within 35 feet (10.6 meters) of the bank of the river is now causing erosion along the river. The deal of it is, the group that built that portion of the wall was actually lead by two of his closes allies.

    In other news, Trump is now attacking Fauci saying Fauci is often wrong. He even has other Coronavirus task force members attacking Fauci. Could it be that Fauci's approval ratings are double Trump's approval ratings?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Following up on what Gramps just posted:

    "The President Is Trading Dr. Fauci for the Ex-Host of Love Connection

    As his staffers smear the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the press, the president is sharing public-health expertise from a fellow game-show host." (Esquire)


    I gather this isn't (yet?) a matter of firing Fauci and putting former game show host Chuck Woolery in the job; but T is pretty much ignoring Fauci and listening to Woolery.

    IIRC, Woolery is the game show host who claimed to have done CIA work or some such.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Addendum: Turns out the claim about CIA work was about Chuck Barris.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Polling question asked to American Voters:

    In regards to the coronavirus who do you trust the most.

    Dr. Fauci: 67%
    Donald Trump: 26%

    Reported by CBS News this evening. May have been redacted from this New York Times article.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    stetson--
    stetson wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"

    I don't recall ever seeing him on Laugh-In(which I watched in 80s re-runs), and his wiki page doesn't have anything about his being on the show. They do mention Wilson collaborating on a musical later in the 70s, with a composer from show.

    Sammy Davis jr. WAS on the show a few times, and I believe that's where he popularized Here Come Da Judge.

    Hmmmm. I'll check that out. "Laugh-In" is the only show I can think of that seems like a match to me.

    I'm definitely not thinking of Sammy. And he was very good at "Here Come Da Judge".

    Thx. :)
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    stetson--
    stetson wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"

    I don't recall ever seeing him on Laugh-In(which I watched in 80s re-runs), and his wiki page doesn't have anything about his being on the show. They do mention Wilson collaborating on a musical later in the 70s, with a composer from show.

    Sammy Davis jr. WAS on the show a few times, and I believe that's where he popularized Here Come Da Judge.

    Hmmmm. I'll check that out. "Laugh-In" is the only show I can think of that seems like a match to me.
    Flip Wilson had his own show that ran from 1970–74: The Flip Wilson Show. Skits involving Geraldine Jones were a regular part of it, as were skits involving Reverend Leroy of the Church of What’s Happening Now.

  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Flip Wilson's Wikipedia article does connect him with the show:
    He was also a regular cast member on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Thanks, everybody. :)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Did you hear about the one where Trump was going to force the reopening of Universities by requiring all international students to take in-person classes or face deportation? Then it got reduced to at least one in-person class.

    Well, it has been scrapped. With 17 state Attorney Generals and over 200 educational institutions coming together in a class-action suit, the administration backed down and returned to the old standard.

    Now, it is one thing to wonder why any international student would want to come into this political and pandemic cesspool at this time anyway, but every time the administration comes up with such a hair-brain idea without public comment and then is forced to back down, it makes them look, well, weak; and we know how Trump hates to appear week.

    It also appears Trump may be backing off from his dispute with Fauci.

    Meanwhile, the new NBC poll shows Biden leading Trump 51-40. The last time a sitting president was this low in the ratings was Bush Sr. v Clinton.
  • Don't worry -- he's found a new pie to stick his fat little fingers into.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Oh, yes, *those* folks. Read about that a little while ago.

    Their actions were so bizarre. I read that some protestors did something to a gate on the couple's property, and the couple thought they and their home were under attack. I can kind of understand the feeling. But they live in a mansion, seemingly solid; AIUI they had 1 pistol and 1 (automatic?) rifle; and yet left their mansion to go out and confront trespassers. Why in the world wouldn't they stay inside; lock the doors and windows; set their security system (presuming they have one); stay away from the windows; and find something fun to do??

    Also read that people have offered them AR-15 (?) assault rifles.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Oh, yes, *those* folks. Read about that a little while ago.

    Their actions were so bizarre. I read that some protestors did something to a gate on the couple's property, and the couple thought they and their home were under attack. I can kind of understand the feeling. But they live in a mansion, seemingly solid; AIUI they had 1 pistol and 1 (automatic?) rifle; and yet left their mansion to go out and confront trespassers. Why in the world wouldn't they stay inside; lock the doors and windows; set their security system (presuming they have one); stay away from the windows; and find something fun to do??

    Also read that people have offered them AR-15 (?) assault rifles.

    I don't think the gate was even on their property, it was a gate to the private community where their house is.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Why in the world wouldn't they . . . find something fun to do?.

    There's the rub. They **did** find something fun to do -- at least in their eyes.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited July 2020
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Now, it is one thing to wonder why any international student would want to come into this political and pandemic cesspool at this time anyway, . . .

    Lots of reasons. For some students it may not be safe for them specifically to return home. Others may not have the kind of reliable internet service in their home countries that taking online classes would require. Still others may be concerned about what the kind of freewheeling discussion that happens in an American class might look like to the folks in their governments keeping an eye on domestic internet conversations. And there's the purely logistical issue of being in different time zones from your classmates for any class activity that's synchronous. A class that meets at 3:00 pm in Boston is meeting at 3:00 am in Beijing.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Trever Noah has developed what may be the toughest game show ever:

    What Was Trump Asked About? Part One

    What Was Trump Asked About? Part Two
  • Not available in my country.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Not available in my country.

    My apologies. I guess You Tube has regional restrictions. I don't know of any way around that.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Links worked for me in the UK.
  • Soooo... Sec of Defence Esper has issued a directive regarding flags permissible on armed forces bases. The Confederate battle flag is banned, though not by name, but by omission. State flags are allowed. (Whither Georgia's flag? Yes - I know that it's not the battle flag tucked in there.) Will he address installations (e.g., Fort Bragg) bearing the name of traitors to the Union? Perhaps more honest enemies? Fort Bragg becomes Fort Goring? Besides, Bragg as a general had at best a mixed, if valorous, record.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    What’s wrong with Georgia’s flag?
  • Dave W wrote: »
    What’s wrong with Georgia’s flag?
    If you remove the coat of arms of Georgia and the motto “In God We Trust” from the center of the circle of stars, you’re basically left with the 13-star version of the Stars and Bars, the first national flag of the Confederate States of America.

    Granted, it’s an improvement over the flag adopted in 1956.

  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    I see what you mean.

    I wonder what fraction of Americans would recognize the Stars and Bars as a Confederate symbol these days; the Battle Flag seems a lot more widely used.
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