I asked because I didn't know. It isn't a problem. I hear both and wondered about it.
There's more that one way to do it.
That's OK. There are lots of instances in English where there are several different ways of conveying the same information that are both reasonable and correct.
Let's stop the sniping, please. Just because the way someone phrased their question didn't sound "questiony" enough to you is no reason to get snarky. Move along, everyone.
Did you hear that Scottish Wikipedia was written by an American who did not know the Scottish dialect of English? Instead, he tried to pass off his articles in mangled English. Story here
She is 12 years old is by far the more usual here; she was only 12 years of age when she died is heard occasionally. A half-century ago, you might also have heard the "of age" for marriage, or birth of a child or death.
Did you hear that Scottish Wikipedia was written by an American who did not know the Scottish dialect of English? Instead, he tried to pass off his articles in mangled English. Story here
Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.
My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen" There are quite a few words that look English, and have a shared entomology, but have a different meaning. "Starving" for example, means "very hungry" in English but can also mean "very cold" in Scotland. Hence -"Put a coat on, or you'll starve" makes perfect sense in Scotland, but not England (unless an English Shipmate can tell me otherwise?)
And, of course, "gotten" is grammatically correct in Scots.
Names in different English speaking countries continue to surprise me. Recently I've been rewatching "Malcolm in the Middle" and the main family fall into three categories:
Francis, Malcolm, Jamie - absolutely fine
Hal, Lois - only seen in superhero comics
Reese, Dewey - what???
Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.
My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen".
I believe the word for 'woman' in the Scandinavian languages is similar.
Is 'quine' a general Scots word? From my position of comparative ignorance (south-of-England-dweller with Scottish family connections on one side) I'd always had the impression that it was specifically north-eastern.
My impression (again open to correction from those more knowledgeable) is that for languages which in recent centuries haven't been a language of government/church/academia it's common for there to be a lot of regional variation with no standard form -- I've heard the same about things like Romansch and Occitan
I thought Reese was a version of Rhys, which is probably known to you.
Yes, I think it is a version of Rhys, which can be found in the US as the surname “Reece.” I’ve known a few Reeses and a few Deweys.
It has long been common in the American South for boys, and sometimes girls, to have surnames as given names. Typically, these are family names; one fairly common tradition is that while an oldest son may be named after his father, a second son will be given his mother’s maiden name as his given name. (Of course, there are some maiden names that just won’t work with.) Our son goes by a surname found on both my side of the family and my wife’s side.
In the case of girls, the surname may be part of a double name. For example, I’ve known women who go by names like Mary Scott and Sarah Fletcher.
This all predates the current popularity of names like Taylor.
"Starving" for example, means "very hungry" in English but can also mean "very cold" in Scotland. Hence -"Put a coat on, or you'll starve" makes perfect sense in Scotland, but not England (unless an English Shipmate can tell me otherwise?)
I heard it growing up in northern England. But it was very much a dialect thing. Starve is etymologically linked to Dutch "sterven" and German "sterben" - to die.
Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.
My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen".
I believe the word for 'woman' in the Scandinavian languages is similar.
Is 'quine' a general Scots word? From my position of comparative ignorance (south-of-England-dweller with Scottish family connections on one side) I'd always had the impression that it was specifically north-eastern.
My impression (again open to correction from those more knowledgeable) is that for languages which in recent centuries haven't been a language of government/church/academia it's common for there to be a lot of regional variation with no standard form -- I've heard the same about things like Romansch and Occitan
Welsh has no standard form and lots of regional variation, and that in such a small geographical area. I can think of four dialectially different ways of saying "I am" and a couple more than that for "I am not". Even the formal literary language has some regional variation - but anyway using it in speech would give much the same impression as saying "Hail and well met! Forsooth thou hast indeed been mine succour in this transaction" to the checkout operator at Tesco.*
*no, really. "Do you want a cup of tea?" is some variation on "t'isie paned o de?" but in literary language would come out "oes arnat ti eisiau cwpaned o de?" or something like that.
There's sort of standard learners' North and South which get taught, as these are the main dialect groups (even the word for he/him is different), but the situation in the speech of native speakers is a lot more complicated.
Thinking about it ... are there any typically Canadian names?
If we were asked to think of very American sounding names I'm sure we could reel off Hank and Franklin, Floyd, Duane, Tammy, Delores and the like.
We might also cite the tendency to include a middle initial in a way that wouldn't be common elsewhere - George W Bush, Rufus T Firefly ...
Are there typically Canadian names?
Or Australian? Other than Bruce. Or Kylie.
Darlene does sound Australian, come to think of it but the only instances of the name I've come across are from the USA.
I don't think there are any typically Canadian names, except perhaps in First Nations, where people are named in English translation to names like Bluejay, Birch or River, or after First Nations themselves like Dakota or Cree. I know of one Kinew (compare canoe).
In Northern Ireland names, like so much else, are an indication of Which Side you belong to. Are you a William or a Seamus? An Elizabeth or a Mebh? English or Irish?
It was when my relatives emigrated to England that they started calling their children Séan or Sinead.
Originally posted by Shubencadie: Is 'quine' a general Scots word? From my position of comparative ignorance (south-of-England-dweller with Scottish family connections on one side) I'd always had the impression that it was specifically north-eastern.
I think its use in everyday speech is confined to the north east. I've seen it written (sometimes as "quyean") more generally. McDiarmid used "quean" in A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle.
I was at a conference last year, and a fresh-faced twenty-something PhD student gave a paper on it. I had that sinking feeling you get when you realise that aspects of your life are now studied as History.
I thought Reese was a version of Rhys, which is probably known to you.
Ah, I hadn't thought of that. In the UK I once taught a girl called Shardonneh (sic). Something similar may have happened there.
Maybe her origin was in the quantity of wine her parents drank one night, and in their alcoholic haze they got the spelling wrong?
I suspect they had heard the name on TV and had no idea how to spell it. In the same sort of way as the young mum who brought her son to school, and said his name was, "Gooey". She'd got it out of a book, and it was spelt G U Y.
My Midlands aunt once had a girl in her class named Spindonna. When the minister baptised her asked what name she was to be given, the answer was 'S pinned onna, so that's what he named her.
In Northern Ireland names, like so much else, are an indication of Which Side you belong to. Are you a William or a Seamus? An Elizabeth or a Mebh? English or Irish?
It was when my relatives emigrated to England that they started calling their children Séan or Sinead.
Presumably names like Bernadette and John-Paul are a bit of a marker as well, though I suppose if you're a real Nat you ought to go for Seán-Pól?
Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.
My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen".
I believe the word for 'woman' in the Scandinavian languages is similar.
Thinking about it ... are there any typically Canadian names?
If we were asked to think of very American sounding names I'm sure we could reel off Hank and Franklin, Floyd, Duane, Tammy, Delores and the like.
We might also cite the tendency to include a middle initial in a way that wouldn't be common elsewhere - George W Bush, Rufus T Firefly ...
Are there typically Canadian names?
Or Australian? Other than Bruce. Or Kylie.
Darlene does sound Australian, come to think of it but the only instances of the name I've come across are from the USA.
I don't think there are any typically Canadian names, except perhaps in First Nations, where people are named in English translation to names like Bluejay, Birch or River, or after First Nations themselves like Dakota or Cree. I know of one Kinew (compare canoe).
I can't think of anything else in English either, outside the First Nations context.
I have think there's probably a better case for distinctiveness in Quebec names, and not just because they're in French - i.e., even if Anglicized, they would sound Québécois in origin.
Typically Canadian first names... more than in the US you find Scottish names, e.g., Ian, Gavin, Malcolm, Gordon, Duncan, Alexander, David. It's not that they're unknown in the US, by a long shot, just more common in Canada, given a proportionally, historically larger immigration to Canada. I think that it's less pronounced amongst women's names, but I've never run across an American Morag or Isobel.
I was surprised to look up and find that "Harper" was a popular baby name in Sask. My association is rather negative to this name. Perhaps "Moe", "Ford", Kenney", "Pallister" are future possibilities (surnames of some current premiers). Mulroney and Trudeau do not seem contenders. For Americans, will babies be first-named "Trump" in the future? Not sure Biden goes well, nor Bush, Nixon, Eisenhower.
Certainly, with Quebecois names, more than in France, hyphenation is common with the first name. Jean-François, Jean-Marc, Marie-France, Marie-Anne, etc. Among First Nations, certain family names are common to certain regions. Cardinal, Scobie, Youngblood.
I was surprised to look up and find that "Harper" was a popular baby name in Sask. My association is rather negative to this name. Perhaps "Moe", "Ford", Kenney", "Pallister" are future possibilities (surnames of some current premiers). Mulroney and Trudeau do not seem contenders. For Americans, will babies be first-named "Trump" in the future? Not sure Biden goes well, nor Bush, Nixon, Eisenhower.
"Harper" has been used as a given name for a while (cf. Harper Lee), but entered the top 1000 in the US in 2004, rising rapidly in popularity over a handful of years. It was #9 in 2018. I'd venture to suggest that approximately none of the Americans who call their daughters "Harper" have heard of your ex-PM. I'd guess that it's use in Canada might be more correlated with the American use and less correlated with the politician.
I don't know of anything that correlates with the rise of Harper to popularity. David Beckham's daughter is Harper, but she's sufficiently young that she has to be an example of the popularity of the name, rather than a possible cause of the trend. There are a few other celebs with Harpers, but they're all too young to be anything more than part of the bandwagon. The same goes for the publication of "Go Set a Watchman" that brought Harper Lee out of the classrooms and in to the news - it's too late to be a possible trigger.
I heard the Gooey story a long while back, while my mother was still teaching. She was told it by her head, though possibly not from personal experience. But more recently I have found similar mistakes among a certain level of society, but have fortunately, perhaps, forgotten them. (Though not all the Aarons pronounced Arran. I finally had to check with someone Jewish that I had not been doing it wrong all my life. I gather Elvis had something to do with this.)
In contrast to the people who have not heard a name they like but have not the education to recognise it, I would cite an incident on TV of a writer at a signing, approached by a very posh lady who wanted the book addressed to her son, Gawn. The writer asked how to spell it. She was scornful of his ignorance of a very well known name, long used in her family, and simply repeated Gawn, with exclamation marks, Gawn! In extremely RP pronunciation, so as not to be confused with Eliza Doolittle. Finally she gave way, and spelled out Gawaine.
Typically Canadian first names... more than in the US you find Scottish names, e.g., Ian, Gavin, Malcolm, Gordon, Duncan, Alexander, David. It's not that they're unknown in the US, by a long shot, just more common in Canada, given a proportionally, historically larger immigration to Canada. I think that it's less pronounced amongst women's names, but I've never run across an American Morag or Isobel.
Interesting. Those sound neither specifically Canadian nor North American to me. Over here, the boys' names listed are widespread, but some of them are slightly Scots, particularly probably Gavin, Duncan and Alexander. David is widespread everywhere but is regarded as as much Welsh as biblical. Morag is definitely Scots, but not rare. Isobel is one of several spellings of a normal and widespread girls' name. It gets shortened to Izzie, Bella or Bell.
I would pronounce Gawaine with two syllables as spelt, and Aaron 'Airǝn' but one does hear these days 'Arrǝn' with a short 'a'. Mind, I'm old enough to remember that Sharon used to be 'Shairǝn' but it now is usually 'Sharrǝn', often shortened to Shazza.
Typically Canadian first names... more than in the US you find Scottish names, e.g., Ian, Gavin, Malcolm, Gordon, Duncan, Alexander, David. It's not that they're unknown in the US, by a long shot, just more common in Canada, given a proportionally, historically larger immigration to Canada.
I’m not sure I’d include David in the list as more popular in Canada than the US. David is traditionally in the top 25 of most common boys names in the US; until recently it was a mainstay in the top 10. As far as that goes, Alexander has been in the top 20 over the last decade.
On the other hand, I’ve never met a Gavin that I can recall.
The law profession in Ontario has not one but two Gavin McKenzies. One was head of the Ontario bar for some years; if memory serves the other one had something like “not that Gavin McKenzie” in small print somewhere on his letterhead.
It did occur to me to wonder if we had more Scottish-sounding names in Canada than in the US. Anecdotally, when I was living in the southern US, a surprising number of people had no idea how to pronounce my name (which is somewhat Scottish-sounding despite my lack of any identifiable Scots ancestry).
Comments
There's more that one way to do it.
That's OK. There are lots of instances in English where there are several different ways of conveying the same information that are both reasonable and correct.
“She’s 12 years of age” would usually be reserved for more formal, written contexts.
"What's that about?"
Pretty much the same here. It would be unusual to hear 'of age' in an informal context.
Nobody said you were in Scotland. We all know you are in Saskatoon.
You hear both. So, it would seem, does everyone else. What of it?
When I do hear it, it tends to be from older people.
Trudy, Heavenly Host
I would use "1 year old" or "2 year old" of a toddler who is at the cusp of having their age given in years rather than months.
Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.
My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen" There are quite a few words that look English, and have a shared entomology, but have a different meaning. "Starving" for example, means "very hungry" in English but can also mean "very cold" in Scotland. Hence -"Put a coat on, or you'll starve" makes perfect sense in Scotland, but not England (unless an English Shipmate can tell me otherwise?)
And, of course, "gotten" is grammatically correct in Scots.
Francis, Malcolm, Jamie - absolutely fine
Hal, Lois - only seen in superhero comics
Reese, Dewey - what???
I thought Reese was a version of Rhys, which is probably known to you.
There seem to be all sorts of names around the Anglophone world now, though, that wouldn't have been heard of when I was knee-high to an Albert.
Names can date us.
As far as I can tell all my Great Grandfathers on both sides of the family were called Alfred. Or most of them
Nobody's called that any more. I have heard of Alfie's though.
Alfred was Batman's butler.
If I hear Reese, I think of Reese's Pieces.
None of these are good names in my hearing.
If we were asked to think of very American sounding names I'm sure we could reel off Hank and Franklin, Floyd, Duane, Tammy, Delores and the like.
We might also cite the tendency to include a middle initial in a way that wouldn't be common elsewhere - George W Bush, Rufus T Firefly ...
Are there typically Canadian names?
Or Australian? Other than Bruce. Or Kylie.
Darlene does sound Australian, come to think of it but the only instances of the name I've come across are from the USA.
Ah, I hadn't thought of that. In the UK I once taught a girl called Shardonneh (sic). Something similar may have happened there.
I believe the word for 'woman' in the Scandinavian languages is similar.
Is 'quine' a general Scots word? From my position of comparative ignorance (south-of-England-dweller with Scottish family connections on one side) I'd always had the impression that it was specifically north-eastern.
My impression (again open to correction from those more knowledgeable) is that for languages which in recent centuries haven't been a language of government/church/academia it's common for there to be a lot of regional variation with no standard form -- I've heard the same about things like Romansch and Occitan
It has long been common in the American South for boys, and sometimes girls, to have surnames as given names. Typically, these are family names; one fairly common tradition is that while an oldest son may be named after his father, a second son will be given his mother’s maiden name as his given name. (Of course, there are some maiden names that just won’t work with.) Our son goes by a surname found on both my side of the family and my wife’s side.
In the case of girls, the surname may be part of a double name. For example, I’ve known women who go by names like Mary Scott and Sarah Fletcher.
This all predates the current popularity of names like Taylor.
Welsh has no standard form and lots of regional variation, and that in such a small geographical area. I can think of four dialectially different ways of saying "I am" and a couple more than that for "I am not". Even the formal literary language has some regional variation - but anyway using it in speech would give much the same impression as saying "Hail and well met! Forsooth thou hast indeed been mine succour in this transaction" to the checkout operator at Tesco.*
*no, really. "Do you want a cup of tea?" is some variation on "t'isie paned o de?" but in literary language would come out "oes arnat ti eisiau cwpaned o de?" or something like that.
There's sort of standard learners' North and South which get taught, as these are the main dialect groups (even the word for he/him is different), but the situation in the speech of native speakers is a lot more complicated.
Breton is far worse.
Maybe her origin was in the quantity of wine her parents drank one night, and in their alcoholic haze they got the spelling wrong?
It was when my relatives emigrated to England that they started calling their children Séan or Sinead.
Is 'quine' a general Scots word? From my position of comparative ignorance (south-of-England-dweller with Scottish family connections on one side) I'd always had the impression that it was specifically north-eastern.
I think its use in everyday speech is confined to the north east. I've seen it written (sometimes as "quyean") more generally. McDiarmid used "quean" in A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle.
I loved Harpies and Quines.
I was at a conference last year, and a fresh-faced twenty-something PhD student gave a paper on it. I had that sinking feeling you get when you realise that aspects of your life are now studied as History.
I suspect they had heard the name on TV and had no idea how to spell it. In the same sort of way as the young mum who brought her son to school, and said his name was, "Gooey". She'd got it out of a book, and it was spelt G U Y.
Yep. Danish "kvinde", Swedish "kvinna".
I can't think of anything else in English either, outside the First Nations context.
I have think there's probably a better case for distinctiveness in Quebec names, and not just because they're in French - i.e., even if Anglicized, they would sound Québécois in origin.
"Harper" has been used as a given name for a while (cf. Harper Lee), but entered the top 1000 in the US in 2004, rising rapidly in popularity over a handful of years. It was #9 in 2018. I'd venture to suggest that approximately none of the Americans who call their daughters "Harper" have heard of your ex-PM. I'd guess that it's use in Canada might be more correlated with the American use and less correlated with the politician.
In contrast to the people who have not heard a name they like but have not the education to recognise it, I would cite an incident on TV of a writer at a signing, approached by a very posh lady who wanted the book addressed to her son, Gawn. The writer asked how to spell it. She was scornful of his ignorance of a very well known name, long used in her family, and simply repeated Gawn, with exclamation marks, Gawn! In extremely RP pronunciation, so as not to be confused with Eliza Doolittle. Finally she gave way, and spelled out Gawaine.
I would pronounce Gawaine with two syllables as spelt, and Aaron 'Airǝn' but one does hear these days 'Arrǝn' with a short 'a'. Mind, I'm old enough to remember that Sharon used to be 'Shairǝn' but it now is usually 'Sharrǝn', often shortened to Shazza.
On the other hand, I’ve never met a Gavin that I can recall.
I went to school with 2.
It did occur to me to wonder if we had more Scottish-sounding names in Canada than in the US. Anecdotally, when I was living in the southern US, a surprising number of people had no idea how to pronounce my name (which is somewhat Scottish-sounding despite my lack of any identifiable Scots ancestry).