Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • California's governor is a Gavin.
  • Marsupial wrote: »
    Anecdotally, when I was living in the southern US, a surprising number of people had no idea how to pronounce my name (which is somewhat Scottish-sounding despite my lack of any identifiable Scots ancestry).

    I dunno Marsupial, your name sounds more Australian to me.

    Strangely Kevin and Gavin are pretty well homophones here in the Netherlands.

  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Mr F claims to have met someone in the States who, on hearing he came from Scotland, said 'I have a Scottish surname. Mace-one.' It was a while before he twigged 'MacEwan'
  • This is rather entertaining re pronunciation of names Keen & Peele sketch "substitute teacher" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO1oBfG59Xw
  • MarsupialMarsupial Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Marsupial wrote: »
    Anecdotally, when I was living in the southern US, a surprising number of people had no idea how to pronounce my name (which is somewhat Scottish-sounding despite my lack of any identifiable Scots ancestry).

    I dunno Marsupial, your name sounds more Australian to me.

    Strangely Kevin and Gavin are pretty well homophones here in the Netherlands.

    It did occur to me that both my ship name and my real name are a bit misleading as to my origins. Though I do have at least some recent ancestry traceable back to the north of England which is at least somewhere close by.



  • Pangolin GuerrePangolin Guerre Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Ah! I know three Fionas! (Fionae?) All born in Canada. And two Siobhans.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    On the other hand, I’ve never met a Gavin that I can recall.

    I went to school with 2.
    Ah, but you live in a land far away from mine.

    I'm aware.
  • In these days when we on the cold and wet side of the Pond are ceaselessly amazed at the latest events in US politics, we have a constant stream of US politics, commentators, and academics being interviewed on our news programmes. I never cease to be struck by their formal courtesy, they always sign off with 'Thank you for having me on your programme' or words tothat effect, no matter how much rough handling they have received. 'Thank you for having me', is what well-brought-up Brisitish children were taught to say when thanking their hosts on leaving a party up to, say, 1950 or 60.
  • Yes, I've noticed that too. Americans still say 'Sir,' and even 'ma'am' during interviews too.
  • I've noticed in BBC interviews there are almost no interview start greetings, like "good morning", and even less frequently interview ending words, like even "thanks". It's just hang-up. But this is probably embedded in a larger cultural and population density context. When we go walking, everyone says hello, good morning etc. We're likely to meet from zero to maybe 15 people in a hour of walking in the city. In some non-city areas, everyone waves at everyone: drivers to drivers, pedestrians and drivers to each other, and the walkers will talk more to each other. When there's hardly any people, it's normal.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    edited September 2020
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    'Thank you for having me', is what well-brought-up Brisitish children were taught to say when thanking their hosts on leaving a party up to, say, 1950 or 60.

    I think I remember being taught that in the 1970s.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    I never cease to be struck by their formal courtesy, they always sign off with 'Thank you for having me on your programme' or words to that effect, no matter how much rough handling they have received. 'Thank you for having me', is what well-brought-up Brisitish children were taught to say when thanking their hosts on leaving a party up to, say, 1950 or 60.

    I remember a cartoon*, late 60's/early 70's of. couple leaving a sex party. The woman, obviously brought up properly, says to the host "And thank you for having me".

    *I think it was Punch
  • Yes, I've noticed that too. Americans still say 'Sir,' and even 'ma'am' during interviews too.

    I never really understood the Australian reputation for informality until I went overseas, and particularly when I first visited the USA. The interactions at a hotel or restaurant... oh right, okay, we are seriously informal if this is your measure.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    In these days when we on the cold and wet side of the Pond are ceaselessly amazed at the latest events in US politics, we have a constant stream of US politics, commentators, and academics being interviewed on our news programmes. I never cease to be struck by their formal courtesy, they always sign off with 'Thank you for having me on your programme' or words tothat effect, no matter how much rough handling they have received. 'Thank you for having me', is what well-brought-up Brisitish children were taught to say when thanking their hosts on leaving a party up to, say, 1950 or 60.

    You comfort my soul.

    We have so much else to be ashamed about, that I am glad to hear these folks haven't forgot what their mamas taught them.
  • On another forum young American men address me as, "Sir". It shows respect, but makes me feel very elderly.
  • Regional variations. Absolutely. Here first names almost universal. Including children to adults. I go to some other provinces and to larger cities, it's not first names. Would you call your physician, dentist, univ professor by first name? These are the most formally addressed people here.
  • --On NPR (similar to the BBC), it's common for guests to end with "thanks for having me". But there are variations. Once, a young(ish) country music star said she was truly honored to be there--and, by her voice, she truly felt she was.

    --As to calling people (particularly licensed professionals) by their first names: As an adult, I've been on a first-name basis with most everyone. Occasionally, I've had bosses that no one called by first name, and who seemed not to want it. Switching usage took some work.

    I've been on a first-name basis with some doctors--I asked, and they actually preferred it. Usually first names with nurse practitioners and physician assistants--and IME, they're often better doctors than actual MDs. Haven't with fully-licensed dentists; but have with residents and students and hygienists.

    --Interesting re formal names: sometimes, legal dramas use them a LOT. Like "The Good Wife". Clients are always addressed formally, and the lawyers often are. I'm soooo over the forced / false / thoughtless intimacy of relentless social media. (And I'm not even on it! Just going by the news, and by the spillover effect everywhere. And: Hey, people? PLEASE put your clothes on, button them up, etc. We don't have to see everything. Save it --and your photos--for your SO. Thx.) Maybe it's a search for real intimacy?

    Anyway, I've found the formal name usage a quiet relief.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    --As to calling people (particularly licensed professionals) by their first names: As an adult, I've been on a first-name basis with most everyone. Occasionally, I've had bosses that no one called by first name, and who seemed not to want it. Switching usage took some work.

    I've been on a first-name basis with my colleagues forever. But that seems right and proper - we are colleagues, collaborators towards a shared endeavour, even if there's a significant difference in seniority between us.

    I still get irritated when I am addressed by my given name by random salespeople, because that presumes a relationship that does not exist. It's particularly irritating when I buy something in a shop, and the shop worker reads my name off my credit card and addresses me by it. We don't have a personal relationship - we don't need to address each other by name.

    Similarly, I would never presume to address a shop assistant by name, even though they're wearing a nametag that says "Denise" or "Marcus" or whatever. I will, if necessary, use it to refer to them ("Your colleague Marcus sent me over here for ..."). The same goes for waiters. They all have a script: "Hello, my name is Kyle and I'll be your server today", but I don't see that that grants me license to address them as Kyle.

    (In reply to @NOprophet_NØprofit, IME, undergraduates always address lecturers as "Professor X" or "Dr X", whereas doctoral students are colleagues and are usually on a given name basis. I don't see my personal doctor often enough to call him anything - I don't think I've ever actually seen the same doctor twice, because the next time I've been sick, the one I saw the last time has moved away. )
  • We discuss in my province that the degree of separation between most of us is maximally two people, e.g., I know someone who's mentioned your cousin. It is really interesting to have this discussion with newcomers (we are moving away from using the term "immigrant" as it tends to be used more for visible minority people). The usual is something about what their kids are doing or where they work, and then it's "do you know <Name> who goes/works/used to work there". It is is probably off-putting for some.
  • The usual is something about what their kids are doing or where they work, and then it's "do you know <Name> who goes/works/used to work there". It is is probably off-putting for some.

    Basically, you're telling me that Saskatoon is a village?
  • No, but our relatively small cities were basically towns when I was young, and the people living in them now came from mostly farming communities. In 1970, the population was about 70,000. Today just under 300,000. The second largest city is about 50K less. After than there's nothing with more than 35,000. The population of the province is about the same as it was in 1930, just over 1 million people.
  • I've been reading a book by an American author. Whenever a disaster happens she refers to the "looky-loos" who gather round. It's clear what she means, but it's a new term to me, and one I don't warm to.

    However, I can't think what the British version would be. The only phrase that comes to mind is "sticky beaks", and that's specifically Manx.
  • However, I can't think what the British version would be. The only phrase that comes to mind is "sticky beaks", and that's specifically Manx.

    Rubberneck is also American, but has seen use in Britain.


  • On the interview thing, by and large I would say that there are more 'thank yous' and politeness on UK radio interviews than on TV ones, and more politeness on regional radio interviews than national ones.

    It does vary from programme to programme and according to subject matter. You'll find a greater level of politeness, for instance, if the BBC are interviewing Mrs Sproggett from the Little Fartington Indoor Bowling League, for instance, whose canary has learned to whistle the theme tune to The Archers, than you would if they were interviewing a Cabinet minister.

    There's also the thing about the kind of confrontational interview style adopted by the likes of Paxman on t'telly and Humphreys on t'radio, although Paxman has hung up his mic of course. You don't get that so much outside of political or current affairs programmes like Radio 4's Today, Newsnight or Andrew Mart's political programme on the telly.

    It can also be the case that BBC journalists can be cloying oleaginous when interviewing royalty or in human interest stories of one form or other. It does vary.

    I gave a short radio interview on regional radio this week and it was all very polite.

    The population of this area, our nearest city and surrounding towns and villages, would be similar to that of Saskatoon. The big differences, of course, would be the density, the distances between settlements, the lack of prairie and the climate.

    There will be cultural differences, too, of course.

    Some forms of North American politeness can strike us as very corporate, false and forced - 'Have a nice day ...', 'Missing you already ...' and I'm sure we aren't alone in that. However, there are levels of politeness and formality in some forms of US (and Canadian?) social interaction which feel very genuine and attractive.

    As a broad rule of thumb, I would suggest that we are somewhere in between the US and Australia as far as the formality / informality spectrum goes, but with regional variations within the UK itself. I am sure there are significant regional differences in levels of formality across the US, Canada, Australia and other Anglophone (and in Canada's case Francophone too) countries.
  • GG--

    "Corporate" in the sense of behavior in companies, or something everyone does?

    Not everyone uses "Have a nice day", and some think it's as you said or maybe "twee" (if I understand that word). But it can simply be a little bit of friendliness and "I see you as a person", even if it's only for a few seconds.

    I'm not familiar with "Missing you already" as anything common. ISTM I've rarely heard it, and that was probably on TV. Maybe a regional (New York City?) difference, or generational.

    BTW, have you seen "Crocodile Dundee I"? There are a few funny moments about "Have a nice day".
    :)
  • 'Lonely' or 'Lonesome'? Brits as far as I know only use 'lonely', except when singing 'How much is that doggie in the window?' (ugh!) or 'In the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia'. Is 'lonesome' universally used in the States, or are there regional variations?
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    We discuss in my province that the degree of separation between most of us is maximally two people, e.g., I know someone who's mentioned your cousin. It is really interesting to have this discussion with newcomers (we are moving away from using the term "immigrant" as it tends to be used more for visible minority people). The usual is something about what their kids are doing or where they work, and then it's "do you know <Name> who goes/works/used to work there". It is is probably off-putting for some.

    It will not surprise you to learn that Newfoundland is that way too. It's not quite as extreme as the 22 Minutes TV show satire of PEI ("PEI-witness News," where the running joke is that ever person mentioned as well as ever reporter is surnamed Gallant) but I'd be surprised if there's more than two degrees of separation between any two Newfoundlanders chosen at random.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I've heard 'all on my lonesome' for 'all alone' or 'all on my own' possibly to emphasise that the speaker was not only alone but lonely.
  • Golden Key - yes, I appreciate that not all Americans go round saying 'Have a nice day' all the time. I meant corporate in the commercial sense, companies insisting that their employees say this stuff.

    I think 'trite' is a more appropriate term than 'twee' in this context.

    I don't doubt that it can be said with sincerity, though and think that when that is the case it's a lot better than the kind of sullen grunt from resentful employees that used to be quite common here - and with good reason the way some employers treat their staff and the way some customers behave.

    That's another issue.

    I remember people who'd visited the US in the early '90s cringing at 'Missing you already.' It may well have been a New York thing or some other regional thing.

    I've only been to the US once, to New York and Newark. Other than in the hotel - 'How can I help the next customer?' - I didn't encounter any formulaic corporate-speak in cafes, bars or museums. I had a number of decent conversations, including one with a guy in the place where you leave your bags in The Metropolitan Museum. He recognised my accent as his mum (Mom) had recently married a fella from my home town.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'Lonely' or 'Lonesome'? Brits as far as I know only use 'lonely', except when singing 'How much is that doggie in the window?' (ugh!) or 'In the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia'. Is 'lonesome' universally used in the States, or are there regional variations?
    “Lonesome” and “lonely,” while they can in some circumstances be used interchangeably, don’t mean quite the same thing, at least as I’m familiar with them being used. One can feel lonely while in a large group of people if one feels disconnected, isolated, misunderstood or overlooked by others. Lonesomeness generally requires physical isolation or distance from anyone else. Lonesome also often suggests a degree of yearning or aching beyond what lonely suggests.


    Then there’s the expression “(all) by my lonesome,” which means “(all) by myself,” but not necessarily in the sense of being lonely.

  • Trudy wrote: »
    We discuss in my province that the degree of separation between most of us is maximally two people, e.g., I know someone who's mentioned your cousin. It is really interesting to have this discussion with newcomers (we are moving away from using the term "immigrant" as it tends to be used more for visible minority people). The usual is something about what their kids are doing or where they work, and then it's "do you know <Name> who goes/works/used to work there". It is is probably off-putting for some.

    It will not surprise you to learn that Newfoundland is that way too. It's not quite as extreme as the 22 Minutes TV show satire of PEI ("PEI-witness News," where the running joke is that ever person mentioned as well as ever reporter is surnamed Gallant) but I'd be surprised if there's more than two degrees of separation between any two Newfoundlanders chosen at random.
    Nfld is my favourite island. I swear that everyone calls me either "buddy" or "my dear" when I've been there. I mean everyone. Friendliest place in the universe.
  • I like my medical physician assistant indeed more then my doctor. He introduced himself by first name and then asked, "How would you like to be addressed." "By my first name thank you," was my answer. At work I went by my title and last name because that was the norm. My request to my volunteers was," When speaking of me to others or when we are with others please use my title and last name. When addressing me in person feel free to use my first name."
  • I don't know whether this has come up before, but as well as 'lonesome', words like 'bothersome' sound very American to me. I've not heard it anywhere in the UK but I suspect it may be said in Northern Ireland.

    Are there any other 'some' suffixes in US English?
  • loathesome. Troublesome. toothsome (yech).
  • Fulsome. Worrisome. Adventuresome. Quarrelsome. Wholesome/Unwholesome.

    And per at least one hymn, gladsome.

  • "on my ownsome"
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Tiresome
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Handsome.

    And I referred to “Let Us with a Gladsome Mind” earlier. Apparently, it was written by Milton.

  • You winsome, you losesome.
  • {groan}
  • Alternately, you winsome, you loathsome.
  • Threesome.
    The Trinity.(not that other kid)
  • Currently I'm watching a lot of American news clips on YouTube. My impression is that American presenters do a lot more talking before they allow the experts to comment than their British counterparts. Is this right?
  • Currently I'm watching a lot of American news clips on YouTube. My impression is that American presenters do a lot more talking before they allow the experts to comment than their British counterparts. Is this right?

    I think that's often true. There is one particular interviewer on PBS who lectures her subjects to the point that you can sometimes see their annoyance while they wait to get in a word. It may be an attempt to keep them focussed, but most have prepared their answers anyway, and it makes no difference. (Jared Kushner yesterday was a magnificent example of zero communication between interviewer and subject).
  • Is 'gladsome' actually a term in regular use in the US?

    The only time I've heard it here is in Milton's hymn.

    'Fulsome' is in currency here and whilst we'd obviously understand terms like 'lonesome' there aren't common in normal everyday speech.

    Thinking about it, a phrase like, 'They lavished him with fulsome praise,' wouldn't be common here either, but we'd know what it meant.

    Handsome and winsome, yes, but the terms Lamb Chopped cites, far less so.
  • edited September 2020
    Toothsome though unwholesome.
    Worrisome to the point of tiresome.
    Just don't be meddlesome about it. It's troublesome.

  • Thinking about it, a phrase like, 'They lavished him with fulsome praise,' wouldn't be common here either, but we'd know what it meant.

    Handsome and winsome, yes, but the terms Lamb Chopped cites, far less so.

    You don't have troublesome in common use? Or loathsome?

    We do. But then, look at our politics.
  • I use loathsome all the time. Also lonesome, never thought of that as an unusual word at all.
  • Is 'gladsome' actually a term in regular use in the US?
    No, which is why I said “And per at least one hymn, gladsome.” I’ve rarely heard it used outside the hymn, except perhaps by someone consciously referencing the hymn.

    But as @Lamb Chopped says, troublesome and loathsome are in common use in my experience, as are worrisome, tiresome, meddlesome, quarrelsome and wholesome.

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