an-TEE-fa. That's a common syllabification scheme in three-syllable words. Not the only, but whatevs.
Well, quite. Not the only, like when there's some reason to use a different emphasis. Like, for example, when the word is a compound.
You don't talk about po-LI-gons, do you? or bi-CY-cles? Or an-TEE-fog glasses? an-TEE-lock brakes? Or an-TEE-logs? Or an-TEE-gens? Or an-TEE-phon?
So what? So fucking what? A word's meaning and pronunciation are what the majority of its users make them. There really is nothing else. You go tell the majority of Americans they're pronouncing it wrong. Tell me how that goes over, and how much the world is changed.
What I want to know is when it became wrong to be antifascist. My friend's dad was in Bomber Command, which has issues, but he was obviously antifascist. And a good many others. However it's pronounced.
So what? So fucking what? A word's meaning and pronunciation are what the majority of its users make them. There really is nothing else. You go tell the majority of Americans they're pronouncing it wrong. Tell me how that goes over, and how much the world is changed.
So what? It tells you quite a lot, actually. The normal pronunciation of words beginning anti-, amongst normal Americans, is seen in antilock, antifog, antigen, and all those other words. Many Americans (presumably influenced by the TV news, which is where they probably encountered the word) don't pronounce antifa the same way.
That tells you that they're not reading it as anti-fa, but as some arbitrary three-syllable word, as though it were a new kind of vegetable or something. Which to me seems like a failure in messaging on behalf of the antifa folks.
For people who are fascists, or playing at being them, or are using their ideas for personal gain, anti-fascists are automatically bad.
The people from the antifa movement that I've seen and heard about in the news, especially the group at Charlottesville who protected the peaceful protesters, are scary. They may have done good work on that occasion; but IIRC they seemed like they might *want* a confrontation. And I think there's been negative info about them; but there's been so much other news since that I don't remember it.
I'm not a Spanish speaker, but afaik, Spanish has both for example antigas (ancient, cf. the island of Antigua) and antigás (anti-gas, as in gasmask). In the former, the emphasis is on the second syllable, whereas in the latter (because it contains the prefix "anti", it isn't.
IOW, the "an-TEE-fa" pronunciation is only Spanish if you pretend that the anti isn't a prefix.
OK folks (in particular, folks who are mousethief, but Leorning Cniht, you're treading close to the line too), we're talking about the pronunciation of a word here; let's not have actual riots in the streets over it.
While the concepts of fascism and anti-fascism get folks rightly riled up, let's not misplace that furore into righteous indignation over pronunciation.
I'm not a Spanish speaker, but afaik, Spanish has both for example antigas (ancient, cf. the island of Antigua) and antigás (anti-gas, as in gasmask).
A slight digression:
There was an old king of Antigua
Whose wife said to him "what a pig you are".
He turned to his queen
Said is "it manners you mean
Or do you refer to my figua?"
That scans much better with the accent on "tig". No idea what the inhabitants say.
As far as antifa is concerned, the usual pronunciation I've heard here is along the lines of AN-ti-FA.
Yes, it's become its own new word. It *means* "anti-fascist"; but the word itself is no longer "anti-" + "fa". It specifically means a particular anti-fascist movement.
The difficulty Americans and Brits have in understanding each other's spoken language is of long standing. I remember reading the following anecdote in a magazine of, I think, the 1950s, soon after US service families began to be stationed here regularly.
An American woman came into a large store in a British town and said to the salesperson 'I wanna drymup. Fer pickin' up kittens.' The shop assistant could make nothing of this. After several minutes of mutual incomprehension and increasing exasperation on the part of the customer, the floor supervisor came over and enquired what the trouble might be. He took the customer away, calmed her down and had a lengthy conversation. After a while he returned and said, 'Miss Brown, the lady requires a long-handled floor duster. "Kittens" are small balls of fluff.'
As a matter of interest, are balls of fluff generally called kittens in the USA?
As a matter of interest, are balls of fluff generally called kittens in the USA?
This is the first time this American has ever heard dust balls called "kittens." I've always heard "dust balls" or "dust bunnies." I assume "kittens" might be regional, though I have no idea what region.
But the "long-handled floor duster" is, in my experience, usually called a "dry mop" here.
I heard everyone getting each other with "yah right" in England. Which I believe is some version of "you all right?" which must mean "how are you?". I prefer "good morning" or "hello". Because I don't think they care how I am.
In the parts where I live, near London, it seems usually to be 'Hi!' to which I am sorely tempted to reply 'What ho!', Wooster-style. 'Hi!' seems to be universal on BBC Radio 4, too. Getting down with the kids, I suppose.
In the parts where I live, near London, it seems usually to be 'Hi!' to which I am sorely tempted to reply 'What ho!', Wooster-style. 'Hi!' seems to be universal on BBC Radio 4, too. Getting down with the kids, I suppose.
In the Southern US where I am, it's more likely to be "Hey!" than "Hi!," though the latter is sometimes heard.
I've considered adopting "greetings and hallucinations" as my way of greeting people. I earnest think that hallucinations are a kind thing to wish anyone at present.
Question for our non-American friends of whatever continent: what does "casket" mean to you? Can it be used for a jewellery box or some other use than putting dead bodies into? Because it seems to me that that's the only use it admits in these United States.
I think that properly, coffins are the shaped boxes, narrow head with quick broadening to the shoulders and a gentle taper to the feet. Caskets are the rectangular boxes. In ordinary speech these days, both are referred to as coffins.
Question for our non-American friends of whatever continent: what does "casket" mean to you? Can it be used for a jewellery box or some other use than putting dead bodies into? Because it seems to me that that's the only use it admits in these United States.
My British answer is that casket can certainly be a small, probably ornamental box for jewellery or similar. The box that we put dead people in is a coffin.
The usual term for a box containing a lady's adornments is a jewellery box, though. A casket, IMO, would be a rather showy box, probably for a few special pieces or something.
ETA: I've never seen the hinged shiny rounded rectangular thing that one sees in US films and TV shows in real life in the UK. I'd expect a UK coffin to be wooden with a screwed-on lid.
Those hinged shiny rounded rectangular things (why "things" I ask) are much more common here than the traditionally shaped coffins. I can't think of the last time I saw a coffin at either a religious or non-religious funeral.
As an aside, while I can't quickly find precise statistics, I'd say that somewhere around 75% of funerals are secular; of the balance, fewer than half will have been conducted in a place of worship.
Question for our non-American friends of whatever continent: what does "casket" mean to you? Can it be used for a jewellery box or some other use than putting dead bodies into? Because it seems to me that that's the only use it admits in these United States.
My British answer is that casket can certainly be a small, probably ornamental box for jewellery or similar. The box that we put dead people in is a coffin.
The usual term for a box containing a lady's adornments is a jewellery box, though. A casket, IMO, would be a rather showy box, probably for a few special pieces or something.
I agree. The primary use of 'casket' here is not a coffin.
ETA: I've never seen the hinged shiny rounded rectangular thing that one sees in US films and TV shows in real life in the UK. I'd expect a UK coffin to be wooden with a screwed-on lid.
Nor have I.
There's a recent fashion for the environmentally minded to go to their eternal rest in a basketwork coffin. It's still much the same shape as an ordinary one, though often rectangular rather than with the bulge in the middle for the elbows.
I would have said the word "casket" is rarely used at all in modern "English" English.
While in my American experience, the word “coffin” is reserved for vampires, horror movies and Halloween. The thing that people we actually know are buried in is a casket. And it’s the rectangular box thing described above, though it may be made of wood rather than something shiny.
As a matter of interest, are balls of fluff generally called kittens in the USA?
This is the first time this American has ever heard dust balls called "kittens." I've always heard "dust balls" or "dust bunnies." I assume "kittens" might be regional, though I have no idea what region.
But the "long-handled floor duster" is, in my experience, usually called a "dry mop" here.
I had to look up “dry mop”, but I think that has to do with my lack of sophistication in floor cleaning technology rather than with any peculiarity of Canadian English. The thing that comes to my mind for that task is a broom...
The only connection I know of between felines and dust bunnies is the one we discovered when our newly acquired feline wandered under a chair on her first day at our home some years ago and came out with her tail covered in dust bunnies.
Question for our non-American friends of whatever continent: what does "casket" mean to you? Can it be used for a jewellery box or some other use than putting dead bodies into? Because it seems to me that that's the only use it admits in these United States.
My British answer is that casket can certainly be a small, probably ornamental box for jewellery or similar. The box that we put dead people in is a coffin.
It all depends what you've done to the body, I suppose...
As a matter of interest, are balls of fluff generally called kittens in the USA?
This is the first time this American has ever heard dust balls called "kittens." I've always heard "dust balls" or "dust bunnies." I assume "kittens" might be regional, though I have no idea what region.
But the "long-handled floor duster" is, in my experience, usually called a "dry mop" here.
I had to look up “dry mop”, but I think that has to do with my lack of sophistication in floor cleaning technology rather than with any peculiarity of Canadian English. The thing that comes to my mind for that task is a broom...
The only connection I know of between felines and dust bunnies is the one we discovered when our newly acquired feline wandered under a chair on her first day at our home some years ago and came out with her tail covered in dust bunnies.
As a matter of interest, are balls of fluff generally called kittens in the USA?
This is the first time this American has ever heard dust balls called "kittens." I've always heard "dust balls" or "dust bunnies." I assume "kittens" might be regional, though I have no idea what region.
But the "long-handled floor duster" is, in my experience, usually called a "dry mop" here.
I had to look up “dry mop”, but I think that has to do with my lack of sophistication in floor cleaning technology rather than with any peculiarity of Canadian English. The thing that comes to my mind for that task is a broom...
The only connection I know of between felines and dust bunnies is the one we discovered when our newly acquired feline wandered under a chair on her first day at our home some years ago and came out with her tail covered in dust bunnies.
Thank you @NOprophet_NØprofit for your explanation. You've indicated a difference in English usage I'd never have even guessed at. 'Roast' here is a way of cooking any sort of joint, over time in an oven. It's not a cut of meat.
If someone in the UK is unwell, others will say to them "get well soon" which - to me - implies something which happens to the ill person, without much action from them. (ie "may your symptoms be resolved" )
I have heard Americans say "feel better". Does it sound to anyone else that this instead puts the onus on the ill person to do something about it, or even just adapt the way they are feeling, even if the symptoms persist?
If someone in the UK is unwell, others will say to them "get well soon" which - to me - implies something which happens to the ill person, without much action from them. (ie "may your symptoms be resolved" )
I have heard Americans say "feel better". Does it sound to anyone else that this instead puts the onus on the ill person to do something about it, or even just adapt the way they are feeling, even if the symptoms persist?
I suspect it may be a contraction of something along the lines of "hope you are feeling better soon."
I noticed @Wet Kipper's name. We eat kippered herring from a tin sometimes. Though given a choice I'd have pickled herring or rollmops. Rollmop: pickled herring rolled around a pickle usually with a tooth pick in it. Though we're far from the ocean, and local pickled pickeral is more divine than pickled herring (we call walleye pickeral).
I heard someone call a nap a "kip" on a TV program. Which seemed odd.
Re roast beef-prime rib, This is also the buffalo-bison issue. One is more correct. But we call them buffalo. Of which there are wood buffalo and plains bison. So buffalo on the plains are called plains bison; there's no "plains buffalo".
I noticed @Wet Kipper's name. We eat kippered herring from a tin sometimes.
You've not had the Real Thing - whole fresh herring, split, gutted and smoked on the coasts whereon it was caught. Soft and rich - grill with way too much butter and eat with brown bread.
I may have had. Though I perceive general confusion about herrings versus sardines. I've had things called sardines like you say which may be herrings. Then there's pilchards. And non-salt water smelts. The smelts we can get flash frozen in a bag. I likes 'em for breakfast.
(Re frying things, my daughter instructed us some years back, use oil and melt the butter in that, half and half. 50% less saturated fat. Lovely for us is catch jacks (pike) or pickeral, fry up for lunch on shore - open fire is usual - a little garlic, a little lemon pepper, a little salt.)
I've always ever read/heard "Get Well Soon" here (America). The section of the greeting card rack for sending to sick friends is the "Get Well Soon" section.
I
(Re frying things, my daughter instructed us some years back, use oil and melt the butter in that, half and half. 50% less saturated fat. Lovely for us is catch jacks (pike) or pickeral, fry up for lunch on shore - open fire is usual - a little garlic, a little lemon pepper, a little salt.)
50/50 oil/butter helps to prevent the butter from burning (doesn't exclude the possibility). I've never heard pike called jack. Is that a Saskatchewan thing?
Comments
Well, quite. Not the only, like when there's some reason to use a different emphasis. Like, for example, when the word is a compound.
You don't talk about po-LI-gons, do you? or bi-CY-cles? Or an-TEE-fog glasses? an-TEE-lock brakes? Or an-TEE-logs? Or an-TEE-gens? Or an-TEE-phon?
So what? So fucking what? A word's meaning and pronunciation are what the majority of its users make them. There really is nothing else. You go tell the majority of Americans they're pronouncing it wrong. Tell me how that goes over, and how much the world is changed.
So what? It tells you quite a lot, actually. The normal pronunciation of words beginning anti-, amongst normal Americans, is seen in antilock, antifog, antigen, and all those other words. Many Americans (presumably influenced by the TV news, which is where they probably encountered the word) don't pronounce antifa the same way.
That tells you that they're not reading it as anti-fa, but as some arbitrary three-syllable word, as though it were a new kind of vegetable or something. Which to me seems like a failure in messaging on behalf of the antifa folks.
I think it's given a Spanish pronunciation.
Re anti-fascists being considered bad:
For people who are fascists, or playing at being them, or are using their ideas for personal gain, anti-fascists are automatically bad.
The people from the antifa movement that I've seen and heard about in the news, especially the group at Charlottesville who protected the peaceful protesters, are scary. They may have done good work on that occasion; but IIRC they seemed like they might *want* a confrontation. And I think there's been negative info about them; but there's been so much other news since that I don't remember it.
I'm not a Spanish speaker, but afaik, Spanish has both for example antigas (ancient, cf. the island of Antigua) and antigás (anti-gas, as in gasmask). In the former, the emphasis is on the second syllable, whereas in the latter (because it contains the prefix "anti", it isn't.
IOW, the "an-TEE-fa" pronunciation is only Spanish if you pretend that the anti isn't a prefix.
While the concepts of fascism and anti-fascism get folks rightly riled up, let's not misplace that furore into righteous indignation over pronunciation.
A slight digression:
There was an old king of Antigua
Whose wife said to him "what a pig you are".
He turned to his queen
Said is "it manners you mean
Or do you refer to my figua?"
That scans much better with the accent on "tig". No idea what the inhabitants say.
As far as antifa is concerned, the usual pronunciation I've heard here is along the lines of AN-ti-FA.
So "an-TEE-fa".
FWIW.
An American woman came into a large store in a British town and said to the salesperson 'I wanna drymup. Fer pickin' up kittens.' The shop assistant could make nothing of this. After several minutes of mutual incomprehension and increasing exasperation on the part of the customer, the floor supervisor came over and enquired what the trouble might be. He took the customer away, calmed her down and had a lengthy conversation. After a while he returned and said, 'Miss Brown, the lady requires a long-handled floor duster. "Kittens" are small balls of fluff.'
As a matter of interest, are balls of fluff generally called kittens in the USA?
But the "long-handled floor duster" is, in my experience, usually called a "dry mop" here.
My British answer is that casket can certainly be a small, probably ornamental box for jewellery or similar. The box that we put dead people in is a coffin.
The usual term for a box containing a lady's adornments is a jewellery box, though. A casket, IMO, would be a rather showy box, probably for a few special pieces or something.
ETA: I've never seen the hinged shiny rounded rectangular thing that one sees in US films and TV shows in real life in the UK. I'd expect a UK coffin to be wooden with a screwed-on lid.
As an aside, while I can't quickly find precise statistics, I'd say that somewhere around 75% of funerals are secular; of the balance, fewer than half will have been conducted in a place of worship.
There's a recent fashion for the environmentally minded to go to their eternal rest in a basketwork coffin. It's still much the same shape as an ordinary one, though often rectangular rather than with the bulge in the middle for the elbows.
Are we in roast beef - prime rib territory?
I had to look up “dry mop”, but I think that has to do with my lack of sophistication in floor cleaning technology rather than with any peculiarity of Canadian English. The thing that comes to my mind for that task is a broom...
The only connection I know of between felines and dust bunnies is the one we discovered when our newly acquired feline wandered under a chair on her first day at our home some years ago and came out with her tail covered in dust bunnies.
It all depends what you've done to the body, I suppose...
Huh?
The word I am used to is "dust mop".
But it does make me hungry.
However, ashes go into urns, even if the urn is a wooden box.
Funnily enough, when I Googled “dry mop” (in a different country) I ended up on the same website...
If you think roast beef and prime rib are the same thing, somebody is going to cheat you out of a lot of money.
Very true. You have choices like chuck, rump roast, prime rib, and whole beef tenderloin on a very extended cost scale.
I have heard Americans say "feel better". Does it sound to anyone else that this instead puts the onus on the ill person to do something about it, or even just adapt the way they are feeling, even if the symptoms persist?
I suspect it may be a contraction of something along the lines of "hope you are feeling better soon."
I heard someone call a nap a "kip" on a TV program. Which seemed odd.
Re roast beef-prime rib, This is also the buffalo-bison issue. One is more correct. But we call them buffalo. Of which there are wood buffalo and plains bison. So buffalo on the plains are called plains bison; there's no "plains buffalo".
You've not had the Real Thing - whole fresh herring, split, gutted and smoked on the coasts whereon it was caught. Soft and rich - grill with way too much butter and eat with brown bread.
(Re frying things, my daughter instructed us some years back, use oil and melt the butter in that, half and half. 50% less saturated fat. Lovely for us is catch jacks (pike) or pickeral, fry up for lunch on shore - open fire is usual - a little garlic, a little lemon pepper, a little salt.)
50/50 oil/butter helps to prevent the butter from burning (doesn't exclude the possibility). I've never heard pike called jack. Is that a Saskatchewan thing?