Purgatory: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    It appears poor Donald might be homeless if he tries to make Mar a Logo his permanent residence. Turns out he signed an agreement with the residents of Palm Beach that he will not live there for more than three non-consecutive weeks at a time back when he purchased it in 1993. Story here,

    Maybe he will have to move back to Trump Tower. You know, that building that is on Black Lives Matter Ave in NYC,

    Too bad.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    And where the local authorities reportedly really, really want to talk to him...
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    It appears poor Donald might be homeless if he tries to make Mar a Logo his permanent residence. Turns out he signed an agreement with the residents of Palm Beach that he will not live there for more than three non-consecutive weeks at a time back when he purchased it in 1993. Story here,
    And as we all know, Donald Trump never ever goes back on an agreement or breaks a contract. He wouldn't dream of living permanently there and just lawyering up to keep the case in litigation for 20 years... 🙄
  • yeah, I suppose that IS the most likely outcome.
  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    It appears poor Donald might be homeless if he tries to make Mar a Logo his permanent residence. Turns out he signed an agreement with the residents of Palm Beach that he will not live there for more than three non-consecutive weeks at a time back when he purchased it in 1993. Story here,
    And as we all know, Donald Trump never ever goes back on an agreement or breaks a contract. He wouldn't dream of living permanently there and just lawyering up to keep the case in litigation for 20 years... 🙄

    *sigh*
  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    It appears poor Donald might be homeless if he tries to make Mar a Logo his permanent residence. Turns out he signed an agreement with the residents of Palm Beach that he will not live there for more than three non-consecutive weeks at a time back when he purchased it in 1993. Story here,
    And as we all know, Donald Trump never ever goes back on an agreement or breaks a contract. He wouldn't dream of living permanently there and just lawyering up to keep the case in litigation for 20 years... 🙄

    Of course, but Palm Beach I think is wealthy enough to out-lawyer him.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Hedgehog wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    It appears poor Donald might be homeless if he tries to make Mar a Logo his permanent residence. Turns out he signed an agreement with the residents of Palm Beach that he will not live there for more than three non-consecutive weeks at a time back when he purchased it in 1993. Story here,
    And as we all know, Donald Trump never ever goes back on an agreement or breaks a contract. He wouldn't dream of living permanently there and just lawyering up to keep the case in litigation for 20 years... 🙄

    Of course, but Palm Beach I think is wealthy enough to out-lawyer him.

    Real life is SO much more fascinating than any wild fiction ...
  • I do not care where he lives as long as I do not have to continue to see or hear what he is saying or doing ever again. One can only hope. I doubt the media will give up on covering him.
  • I do not care where he lives as long as I do not have to continue to see or hear what he is saying or doing ever again. One can only hope. I doubt the media will give up on covering him.

    Early on, I switched the channel or turned it off as needed ...
  • The mute button is a gift from God.
  • It's too soon to start a civil war, and I would think Trump knows this. He needs a lot of corrupt judges and generals for that, file under Hitler. Also, I would say US society is not as broken down as Weimar. Whether or not some budding Gauleiters lurk in the wings, dunno. I suppose it's possible that Biden will exasperate people and play on their nerves, again, who knows.
  • It's too soon to start a civil war, and I would think Trump knows this. He needs a lot of corrupt judges and generals for that, file under Hitler. Also, I would say US society is not as broken down as Weimar. Whether or not some budding Gauleiters lurk in the wings, dunno. I suppose it's possible that Biden will exasperate people and play on their nerves, again, who knows.

    For now quite a few years the Red Hats -- who predate Trump's ascension -- have been fulminating about "taking our country back" (from: the "Feds," gays and lesbians, "Liberals," atheists, IMMIGRANTS(!), brown people, "Socialists" and Globalists) ... Their grievances are many and long-standing ... and they are ARMED ...
  • It's too soon to start a civil war, and I would think Trump knows this. He needs a lot of corrupt judges and generals for that, file under Hitler. Also, I would say US society is not as broken down as Weimar. Whether or not some budding Gauleiters lurk in the wings, dunno. I suppose it's possible that Biden will exasperate people and play on their nerves, again, who knows.

    For now quite a few years the Red Hats -- who predate Trump's ascension -- have been fulminating about "taking our country back" (from: the "Feds," gays and lesbians, "Liberals," atheists, IMMIGRANTS(!), brown people, "Socialists" and Globalists) ... Their grievances are many and long-standing ... and they are ARMED ...

    Yes, but the military itself would not back a putsch. That takes considerable social breakdown as in Weimar, or a conspiracy, and I am assuming the US is not in that position. But Trump is a warning, surely?

    Interesting that some historians judge that Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch taught him to tread a semi-legal route.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    That was my point quetz. He’s messed up the chain of command in the Pentagon, the first sign of which is stopping Biden briefings.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    That was my point quetz. He’s messed up the chain of command in the Pentagon, the first sign of which is stopping Biden briefings.

    I would say he has messed up the civilian control of the chain of command, but for the military side, the chain of command is still intact. He cannot remove the Joint Chiefs of Staff as easily as he can the civilian side. My bet is that the JoCS will quickly recognize Biden as the new CinC come 12:01 on 20 Jan 21
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    That was my point quetz. He’s messed up the chain of command in the Pentagon, the first sign of which is stopping Biden briefings.

    I would say he has messed up the civilian control of the chain of command, but for the military side, the chain of command is still intact. He cannot remove the Joint Chiefs of Staff as easily as he can the civilian side. My bet is that the JoCS will quickly recognize Biden as the new CinC come 12:01 on 20 Jan 21
    The Joint Chiefs of Staff have nothing to do with the chain of command. From their own website:
    Today, the Joint Chiefs of Staff have no executive authority to command combatant forces. The issue of executive authority was clearly resolved by the Goldwater-Nichols DOD Reorganization Act of 1986: "The Secretaries of the Military Departments shall assign all forces under their jurisdiction to unified and specified combatant commands to perform missions assigned to those commands..."; the chain of command "runs from the President to the Secretary of Defense; and from the Secretary of Defense to the commander of the combatant command."
  • It's too soon to start a civil war, and I would think Trump knows this. He needs a lot of corrupt judges and generals for that, file under Hitler. Also, I would say US society is not as broken down as Weimar. Whether or not some budding Gauleiters lurk in the wings, dunno. I suppose it's possible that Biden will exasperate people and play on their nerves, again, who knows.

    For now quite a few years the Red Hats -- who predate Trump's ascension -- have been fulminating about "taking our country back" (from: the "Feds," gays and lesbians, "Liberals," atheists, IMMIGRANTS(!), brown people, "Socialists" and Globalists) ... Their grievances are many and long-standing ... and they are ARMED ...

    Yes, but the military itself would not back a putsch. That takes considerable social breakdown as in Weimar, or a conspiracy, and I am assuming the US is not in that position. But Trump is a warning, surely?

    Interesting that some historians judge that Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch taught him to tread a semi-legal route.

    As a reaction to the terribly mis-adventured intervention in the Viet Nam Civil War, conscription was replaced by the all-volunteer military which has now over a few decades become less and less composed of "citizen soldiers," and more and more a self-selected professional corps ... In 2016 most of the American military voted for ... Trump ...
  • While the figures are not out yet, I am betting the majority of the military voted for Biden this year.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    While the figures are not out yet, I am betting the majority of the military voted for Biden this year.

    Based on interviews, the percentage was down as compared to 2016 ...
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    While the figures are not out yet, I am betting the majority of the military voted for Biden this year.

    Considering that Trump tried to exclude all the military absentee ballots that came in late, Trump must have thought that, too.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    edited December 2020
    Given T's public insults to the military and his trashing of John McCain, no military member should've voted for him.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Given T's public insults to the military and his trashing of John McCain, no military member should've voted for him.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that. "The military" in this country include a fair number of Trump supporters.
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    The Military Times ran a telling article about US military voting intentions in August 2020, based on polls back then.
  • Wesley J wrote: »
    The Military Times ran a telling article about US military voting intentions in August 2020, based on polls back then.
    But if I recall, the Military Times’ readership and that poll tilted somewhat decidedly toward officers. I remember discussions (on 538 maybe?) that officers were more likely to vote for Biden, but it wasn’t as clear where enlisted military were. Don’t know for sure, though.

  • Once again, Trump defends Russia. Secretary of State Pompeo states that Russia was behind the cyber attack. Trump then comes out and says, no, no it was Chine and "the media" keep blaming poor little Russia simply because "the media" are so in love with China.

    Personally, it never occurred to me that Pompeo was "the media."
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    While the figures are not out yet, I am betting the majority of the military voted for Biden this year.

    I'm not sure we'll ever know that. Such analyses are usually based on exit polling and in an election that saw record amounts of early and mail-in voting as well as a partisan skew in preference between day-of-election voting and other methods of casting a ballot I'm not sure exit polling is an accurate measure of the electorate as a whole (or groups within the electorate).
  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    Once again, Trump defends Russia. Secretary of State Pompeo states that Russia was behind the cyber attack. Trump then comes out and says, no, no it was Chine and "the media" keep blaming poor little Russia simply because "the media" are so in love with China.

    Personally, it never occurred to me that Pompeo was "the media."

    I was wondering whether Pompeo has, in the twilight of the Trump Administration, discovered the National Interest.
  • Every time, Trump wants to deflect blame from Russia, I have to wonder what does Putin have over him.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Every time, Trump wants to deflect blame from Russia, I have to wonder what does Putin have over him.

    My semi-serious guess is he's planning a possible run to Russia in the event of facing criminal charges in the US, and so needs to continue currying favour.

    Though honestly, I'd see Israel as the preferable country of exile for him, if it were possible for him to avoid extradition there.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Hmmm...is Edward Snowden still holed up in Russia?

    stetson--

    Are you thinking he'd be safer there? Despite Ivanka and her family being Jewish, T has made anti-Jewish remarks. And what if Netanyahu dies or goes out of power?
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Every time, Trump wants to deflect blame from Russia, I have to wonder what does Putin have over him.

    BINGO
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Hmmm...is Edward Snowden still holed up in Russia?

    stetson--

    Are you thinking he'd be safer there? Despite Ivanka and her family being Jewish, T has made anti-Jewish remarks. And what if Netanyahu dies or goes out of power?

    Even with Netanyahu in power he wouldn't necessarily be safe. Trump's certainly popular with the Israeli far right but that won't stop the Israeli government handing him over if the US government demands it.
  • I have a hazy recollection that if Trump were to convert to Judaism he could not be extradited from Israel. Can anyone tell me if that is correct?
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Hmmm...is Edward Snowden still holed up in Russia?

    stetson--

    Are you thinking he'd be safer there? Despite Ivanka and her family being Jewish, T has made anti-Jewish remarks. And what if Netanyahu dies or goes out of power?

    Put it this way. I think Trump As A Guest Of Netanyahu would be a more comfortable arrangement for both parties, than would Trump As A Guest Of Putin. Just for starters, he'd likely have more freedom of movement in Israel than in Russia, where I think he'd still be regarded with suspicion as the leader of a hostile power.

    Plus, given the prestige enjoyed by Israel among the American public, Biden would have to tread very carefully in criticizing them. And the GOP could spin it as The Greatest President Ever Now Living In The Greatest Democracy Ever.

    The only negative for Trump with Israel is that they'd likely send him back as soon as they were asked, if only because they can't afford to piss-off their No. 1 ally.

    (And honestly, this is all pretty hypothetical, since I don't really think Trump is likely to flee the country.)
  • Oh, and yes, Snowden is still in Russia.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    Eirenist wrote: »
    I have a hazy recollection that if Trump were to convert to Judaism he could not be extradited from Israel. Can anyone tell me if that is correct?

    Israel does not extradite its citizens and if you're Jewish you're automatically eligible for Israeli citizenship, though such citizenship is not automatic. Israel is also highly aware of the way this system can be gamed by undesirables and has in the past extradited Jews with only marginal connections to Israel, even though those connections were more solid than a hypothetical Trump conversion to Judaism. In cases where extradition is not granted, sometimes Israel will try the non-extraditee in its own courts. Israel would not be a particularly safe haven for Trump, assuming he was looking for one.
  • I think Trump will flee to Russia and ask for asylum ...
  • Here’s a trivia question for you. Has a former U.S. president ever died in a foreign country? If so, which president and what country?

    No fair using Google.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    I have a hazy recollection that if Trump were to convert to Judaism he could not be extradited from Israel. Can anyone tell me if that is correct?

    Malka Leifer, the Principal of a Jewish school here in Melbourne, fled to Israel when she was charged with sexual assault of some of her students. After a very prolonged extradition battle, I believe the Israeli Justice Minister ordered her extradition to Australia last week.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Here’s a trivia question for you. Has a former U.S. president ever died in a foreign country? If so, which president and what country?

    No fair using Google.

    The Emperor Valerian was captured by Persia in 260 and died a prisoner.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re whether or not a theoretical conversion by T would be accepted:

    Years back, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright found out she has Jewish ancestry, but it had been hidden. (IIRC in the wake of WWII.) There was something of an uproar when that came out: some Jews thought she made it up for some political/nefarious purpose. And she wasn't even trying to convert. Or move to Israel.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Simon Toad--

    And which president was Valerian? ;)
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Re whether or not a theoretical conversion by T would be accepted:

    Years back, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright found out she has Jewish ancestry, but it had been hidden. (IIRC in the wake of WWII.) There was something of an uproar when that came out: some Jews thought she made it up for some political/nefarious purpose. And she wasn't even trying to convert. Or move to Israel.

    This was well known even when she and her family had escaped to England. They converted to Christianity while in England. I do not believe it was ever hidden.

  • My mistake, she was baptized Christian in a Roman Catholic Church. As long as I knew of Madeliene, I knew she had a Jewish heritage. No big deal.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Here’s a trivia question for you. Has a former U.S. president ever died in a foreign country? If so, which president and what country?

    No fair using Google.

    Does Texas count?
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Simon Toad--

    And which president was Valerian? ;)

    Around -237, by my estimate.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    LOL, Atmf.
  • Thanks for the info, Simon T. Seems that Trump will be spared having to make a painful choice.
  • I hear North Korea is lovely at this time of year...
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