Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • To this Brit "khaki" and "car key" are homophones.

    LC, it seems Vietnamese and Dutch have something in common. We say chicken skin here too - kippenvel.

    Homophobes? What?
  • Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.

    cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.
  • The DHL notification is correct either way.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    The DHL notification is correct either way.

    Not in Anglo-English it isn't; as a Brit @Penny S is right to spot the omitted 'on'.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    To this Brit "khaki" and "car key" are homophones. ...
    Not quite for this one. The stress pattern is slightly different. It's a bit like the difference between ' a Blackbird' and 'a black bird'.

  • Fawkes Cat wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The DHL notification is correct either way.

    Not in Anglo-English it isn't; as a Brit @Penny S is right to spot the omitted 'on'.

    Yeah, but its omission didn't sound wrong either.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Fawkes Cat wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The DHL notification is correct either way.

    Not in Anglo-English it isn't; as a Brit @Penny S is right to spot the omitted 'on'.

    Yeah, but its omission didn't sound wrong either.

    It may not sound wrong (I don't know the proper term, but as a Brit I would assume that the speaker had just swallowed the 'on' - it was in their mind but just didn't make it out of their mouth) but (to this Brit at least) it reads wrong.
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    edited February 2021
    I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.

    cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.

    Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, and ‘pants’ would imply underpants - hence the ‘ewww’ reaction.
  • Gill H wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.

    cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.

    Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
    I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,

    Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?

  • School joke from 1940s: A soldier, a sailor and an airman got into a car. Who drove? Answer: The soldier, because he had the car-key. Groan.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    ... Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?
    Yes. Their first vowel in BrEnglish is completely different. The first vowel in 'cacky' (i.e. covered in actual or metaphorical cack) is different from either of them.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited February 2021
    Kakhi the first vowel is ah. This is a long vowel.
    Cocky the first vowel is as in "sock". This is a short vowel.

    Even without the vowel length differences they're distinct sounds. Ah is an open vowel, short o much more closed.

    Mind you, to our ears, many Americans seem to wear 'sahks' rather than 'socks'
  • orfeo wrote: »
    I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.

    Reminds me of another one creeping Americanism - to refer to a person living "on" a street rather than "in" which would be the UK usage.
  • How abut this one: 'Homage: Hommidge or HOmaazh? Former is trad Brit, me.g. swearing allegince tomonarch (perhaps not used much in the USA), the latter is affected by luvves in Britland, to refer to some kind of tribute to a fellow artist or performer.
  • Memo to self: ALWAYS PROOF-READ BEFORE POSTING.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited February 2021
    Hommidge, for all purposes. The other pronunciation in a BreEnglish speaker is an affectation, with no exceptions.
  • Sparrow wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.

    Reminds me of another one creeping Americanism - to refer to a person living "on" a street rather than "in" which would be the UK usage.

    I've been saying "on" for 70 years, Mancunian maybe.
  • Sparrow wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.

    Reminds me of another one creeping Americanism - to refer to a person living "on" a street rather than "in" which would be the UK usage.

    I've been saying "on" for 70 years, Mancunian maybe.

    Possibly; my father came from Blackburn and "on" sounds natural to me.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    How abut this one: 'Homage: Hommidge or HOmaazh? Former is trad Brit, me.g. swearing allegince tomonarch (perhaps not used much in the USA), the latter is affected by luvves in Britland, to refer to some kind of tribute to a fellow artist or performer.

    Yes, I first noticed "Homaarsh" in cookery programmes (I think it was the Hairy Bikers) using it in the sense of a tribute to a different genre.


  • Sparrow wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.

    Reminds me of another one creeping Americanism - to refer to a person living "on" a street rather than "in" which would be the UK usage.

    I've been saying "on" for 70 years, Mancunian maybe.


    It always puts the image in my mind of a person living on the streets.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Kakhi the first vowel is ah. This is a long vowel.
    Cocky the first vowel is as in "sock". This is a short vowel.

    Even without the vowel length differences they're distinct sounds. Ah is an open vowel, short o much more closed.

    Mind you, to our ears, many Americans seem to wear 'sahks' rather than 'socks'

    Thanks. To be honest, when you compare “ah” and the vowel in “sock,” I do indeed hear in my head the same sound. But then, I think I can also hear in my mind a British pronunciation of “sock” and so maybe I get the difference.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gill H wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.

    cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.

    Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
    I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,

    Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?

    I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
  • If homage confuses, then so will portage, but I always assumed it was simply English vs French. In this very Anglo part of Canada, portage will always be heard as in French.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gill H wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.

    cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.

    Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
    I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,

    Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?

    I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
    No worries. That made perfect sense to this American. What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?

  • john holdingjohn holding Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gill H wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.

    cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.

    Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
    I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,

    Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?

    I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
    No worries. That made perfect sense to this American. What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?

    Kar - Key.
    Roughly the way it was pronounced by Brits in South Africa after the South African War -- it's a South African word (I don't know which language of the many possible) related to fields of mud and dull green vegetation. Pronunciation frozen in the British Army prior to the first war, when it became the universal colour of uniforms ( as it is to this day in the British and some other armies).

    Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.

    Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.
  • Surely the scouts' "kybo" was really an acronym - Keep Your Bowels Open?
  • Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.

    Kah-key in this corner of North America isn't how any word is pronounced.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Surely the scouts' "kybo" was really an acronym - Keep Your Bowels Open?

    Wikipedia thinks that is a ‘backronym’
    This appears to have originated from camps which used Kybo brand coffee cans to hold lye or lime which was sprinkled down the hole to reduce odor. "Keep Your Bowels Open" may be a backronym.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited February 2021

    Kar - Key.
    Roughly the way it was pronounced by Brits in South Africa after the South African War -- it's a South African word (I don't know which language of the many possible) related to fields of mud and dull green vegetation. Pronunciation frozen in the British Army prior to the first war, when it became the universal colour of uniforms ( as it is to this day in the British and some other armies).

    Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.

    Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.




    Not South African origin, as far as I know. The word “khaki” was originally a loan word from Urdu meaning “dust,” or “dusty.” In the mid-19th century the British adopted khaki fabric with this name for its uniforms, first in India and then worn in campaigns throughout the British Empire, including during the Anglo-Boer War in South Africa in circa 1900.

    A word in Afrikaans that isn't related but sounds like khaki, is 'kak' meaning shit.
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    edited February 2021
    Khaki is not a South African word. It's a loanword from Urdu. As 10 seconds on Google will verify.
  • Sparrow wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.

    Reminds me of another one creeping Americanism - to refer to a person living "on" a street rather than "in" which would be the UK usage.

    I've been saying "on" for 70 years, Mancunian maybe.

    Possibly; my father came from Blackburn and "on" sounds natural to me.
    MaryLouise wrote: »

    Kar - Key.
    Roughly the way it was pronounced by Brits in South Africa after the South African War -- it's a South African word (I don't know which language of the many possible) related to fields of mud and dull green vegetation. Pronunciation frozen in the British Army prior to the first war, when it became the universal colour of uniforms ( as it is to this day in the British and some other armies).

    Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.

    Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.




    Not South African origin, as far as I know. The word “khaki” was originally a loan word from Urdu meaning “dust,” or “dusty.” In the mid-19th century the British adopted khaki fabric with this name for its uniforms, first in India and then worn in campaigns throughout the British Empire, including during the Anglo-Boer War in South Africa in circa 1900.

    A word in Afrikaans that isn't related but sounds like khaki, is 'kak' meaning shit.

    Which of course has a cognate in English giving rise to the sniggers if a Brit hears the phrase "Khaki pants" using the US pronunciation of "khaki".
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gill H wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.

    cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.

    Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
    I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,

    Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?

    I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
    No worries. That made perfect sense to this American. What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?

    Kar - Key.
    So is the r rhotic or non-rhotic?

    Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.

    Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.
    As @mousethief said, it’s not pronounced kah-key in the US. It’s pronounced kack-key—kack rhyming with sack or knack.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Surely the scouts' "kybo" was really an acronym - Keep Your Bowels Open?

    Very genteel scouts then.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Kar - Key.
    So is the r rhotic or non-rhotic?
    In most non-rhotic British English accents, khaki and car key sound quite similar, but I think khaki has a stronger emphasis on the first syllable, and the 'e' sound at the end of the second syllable is clipped shorter.

    When I've heard rhotic speakers say khaki, they've used a rhotic 'r' just like they would in car key.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Kar - Key.
    So is the r rhotic or non-rhotic?
    In most non-rhotic British English accents, khaki and car key sound quite similar, but I think khaki has a stronger emphasis on the first syllable, and the 'e' sound at the end of the second syllable is clipped shorter.

    When I've heard rhotic speakers say khaki, they've used a rhotic 'r' just like they would in car key.
    Interesting. Thanks!

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?

    Yes, I think British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation.
  • KarlLB wrote: »

    Which of course has a cognate in English giving rise to the sniggers if a Brit hears the phrase "Khaki pants" using the US pronunciation of "khaki".

    Re "sniggers". We snicker. Never snigger.
  • Yesterday, I thought I was going to drop a dime on mom.

    This is an old idiom from when one called from a payphone in the US it would cost a dime to make a local call.

    My grandkids have never heard of it.

  • Spend a penny is similar but refers to pay toilets.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?

    Yes, I think British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation.

    Depends. Most American accents are rhotic. And I'm gathering that most British accents are not. So...
  • Depends. Most American accents are rhotic. And I'm gathering that most British accents are not. So...

    But there's no 'r' in cocky, even the way Americans say it, which makes some sort of approximation for a non-rhotic "car".
  • Which was my point. If most Brits are nonrhotic, and most Americans are rhotic, there's no way "British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation." The presence of an r on one side is going to completely fuck up the resemblance.
  • Which was my point. If most Brits are nonrhotic, and most Americans are rhotic, there's no way "British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation." The presence of an r on one side is going to completely fuck up the resemblance.

    But there isn't an 'r' on either side. Non-rhotic Brits don't pronounce a medial 'r' in khaki, and rhotic people don't insert an 'r' in cocky (or it would be "corky").
  • Okay, I've gotten turned around here. I was thinking of your rhotic Brits example. Which you'd never find among rhotic Americans.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Spend a penny is similar but refers to pay toilets.

    Still in use here, perhaps more common amongst women beyond the first flush of youth.
  • More like the generation before. I’m closer to 69 than 68 and haven’t heard that turn of phrase in over 50 years.

    Back in the day it cost 2 pence to use the loos in railway stations ( needed 2 old pennies in the slot to get the damned door open) and later 5 cents at David Jones (upmarket dept store in the city). I recall going there while hugely pregnant ( & desperate) back in 1977. A dear old lady (all dressed to the nines as befitted a jaunt to town) arrived at the Ladies’ along with me; she remarked “ bugger that I’ll hang onto it”

    Wish I’d been able to do the same!
  • Spend a penny is similar but refers to pay toilets.

    The rate has gone up, it’s more like ‘Euronate’ now.
  • If you can find one
  • Sorry to hear; it was 30p last time I was desperate to pee at Victoria station...
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