The trials and tribulations of an ex-president (including SCOTUS on the 14th amendment)

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Comments

  • We'll know in 50 years or so, I suspect.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    This took less than 50 years (while feeling like 500), but lo these many moons ago I somehow got onto the Blump's email list, with no notion of how to get off it (there is no "opt-out" link at the bottoms of these messages). It's now been several days since I last received yet another Frump appeal/entreaty for an urgent infusion of cash from my bank account to Trumpian coffers. Dare I hope they've finally dropped me?
  • If so, it’s got to be a sign of the End.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Can you not block him?
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Can you not block him?

    Can always mark as Spam. Depending on your email provider, if enough people mark as Spam then it will get automatically marked as Spam for the people who do want to receive it...

    AFZ
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds. This is probably the final step toward indictment. This will be on the state level.

    He also has the potential for indictment on inciting a riot, and for possession of secret documents. Both of these indictments will be on the federal level.

    And then there is the pending indictment for tampering with the Georgia election.

    Four possible indictments in 2023. His lawyers are going to be very busy this next year.

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds. This is probably the final step toward indictment. This will be on the state level.

    He also has the potential for indictment on inciting a riot, and for possession of secret documents. Both of these indictments will be on the federal level.

    And then there is the pending indictment for tampering with the Georgia election.

    Four possible indictments in 2023. His lawyers are going to be very busy this next year.

    I'm constantly amazed that he is still able to find people willing to represent him.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    His lawyers are going to be very busy this next year.
    I hope they make sure they're paid up front.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds. This is probably the final step toward indictment. This will be on the state level.

    He also has the potential for indictment on inciting a riot, and for possession of secret documents. Both of these indictments will be on the federal level.

    And then there is the pending indictment for tampering with the Georgia election.

    Four possible indictments in 2023. His lawyers are going to be very busy this next year.

    I'm constantly amazed that he is still able to find people willing to represent him.

    Well, none of these much-ballyhooed legal-cases ever amount to anything. Thus, his current crop of lawyers seem to be doing a good job, and presumably being well-paid for it. So why wouldn't someone wanna join a winning team?
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    stetson wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds. This is probably the final step toward indictment. This will be on the state level.

    He also has the potential for indictment on inciting a riot, and for possession of secret documents. Both of these indictments will be on the federal level.

    And then there is the pending indictment for tampering with the Georgia election.

    Four possible indictments in 2023. His lawyers are going to be very busy this next year.

    I'm constantly amazed that he is still able to find people willing to represent him.

    Well, none of these much-ballyhooed legal-cases ever amount to anything. Thus, his current crop of lawyers seem to be doing a good job, and presumably being well-paid for it. So why wouldn't someone wanna join a winning team?

    Has he actually started paying his legal bills? That's new.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds. This is probably the final step toward indictment. This will be on the state level.

    He also has the potential for indictment on inciting a riot, and for possession of secret documents. Both of these indictments will be on the federal level.

    And then there is the pending indictment for tampering with the Georgia election.

    Four possible indictments in 2023. His lawyers are going to be very busy this next year.

    I'm constantly amazed that he is still able to find people willing to represent him.

    Well, none of these much-ballyhooed legal-cases ever amount to anything. Thus, his current crop of lawyers seem to be doing a good job, and presumably being well-paid for it. So why wouldn't someone wanna join a winning team?

    Has he actually started paying his legal bills? That's new.

    Yeah, I guess if defaulting is an issue, that would have some impact on his ability to attract new talent

    But is it the case that every single lawyer who works for Trump gets screwed over?
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited March 2023
    If so, it’s got to be a sign of the End.
    stetson wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds. This is probably the final step toward indictment. This will be on the state level.

    He also has the potential for indictment on inciting a riot, and for possession of secret documents. Both of these indictments will be on the federal level.

    And then there is the pending indictment for tampering with the Georgia election.

    Four possible indictments in 2023. His lawyers are going to be very busy this next year.

    I'm constantly amazed that he is still able to find people willing to represent him.

    Well, none of these much-ballyhooed legal-cases ever amount to anything. Thus, his current crop of lawyers seem to be doing a good job, and presumably being well-paid for it. So why wouldn't someone wanna join a winning team?

    Are you serious?

    Going unpaid is the least of your worries if you're fool enough to become a Trump lawyer. He's had I don't know how many former lawyers end up charged with crimes of their own on his behalf, everything from inciting insurrection (I'm not being technical here, the guy I have in mind here is Eastman) to coverups and lies (Cohen, also the various poor fools who signed off on legal statements of the "We solemnly swear there are no more classified documents left around here") to being disbarred, fined, or disciplined in other ways for malpractice (Rudy Giuliani and I believe a few others).

    And you can't say the cases never amount to anything when the first crop of them is just now coming to fruit. As somebody somewhere pointed out, if we are using the Watergate timeline, it's only now we'd be seeing action. And Trump's bullshit crimes are far more complex than Watergate was.

    No, the reaction from legal Twitter (which is where I follow most of this, I'm talking attorneys, not self-aggrandizing law nerds) is, every time a new lawyer shows up, "Poor fool. Wonder how long it'll take him/her to self-destruct?" and then they pull out the popcorn.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Well, there you go. A large and diverse nation is able to produce new crops of freshly-minted attorneys every year. This affords individuals like His Malfeasance Personified a near-endless supply of fresh, new legal talent to inveigle? bamboozle? coerce? into representing him in court. All Trump need do is prolong and complicate the process sufficiently to ensure that death intervenes before human justice does.
  • ... except I'd really be surprised if he believes, in his heart of hearts, that he will ever die. Wonder if he actually does have an endgame in mind... or if he's just deliberately *not thinking about that, not thinking about that* as he kicks the can down the road again and again and again...
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I assume his goal is some sort of apotheosis. Has any culture had a god of venality?
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    ... except I'd really be surprised if he believes, in his heart of hearts, that he will ever die. Wonder if he actually does have an endgame in mind... or if he's just deliberately *not thinking about that, not thinking about that* as he kicks the can down the road again and again and again...

    Of course he doesn't believe "in his heart of hearts, that he will ever die." Few of us -- if our behavior is any indication -- actually do, aside from momentary confrontations with danger. Also, one might ask (at least in His Egregiousness's case), what heart?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds.

    In the Stormy Daniels case we can use Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen 86067-054 as a guide. Cohen 86067-054 was convicted in the Stormy Daniels matter (five counts of tax evasion, one count of making false statements to a financial institution, one count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution, and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution at the request of a candidate) so presumably Trump (listed in the indictment as "Individual-1") is in legal jeopardy for the same. Cohen 86067-054 was also later convicted of perjuring himself to Congress. Trump did not testify before Congress on this matter so he's presumably not in jeopardy there, unless someone at the DoJ thinks they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump influenced Cohen 86067-054 to perjure himself. That would count as witness tampering.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is reportedly now being invited to testify before the Grand Jury investigating his payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. I an not sure of the alleged crime. Something about illegal use of campaign funds.

    In the Stormy Daniels case we can use Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen 86067-054 as a guide. Cohen 86067-054 was convicted in the Stormy Daniels matter (five counts of tax evasion, one count of making false statements to a financial institution, one count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution, and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution at the request of a candidate) so presumably Trump (listed in the indictment as "Individual-1") is in legal jeopardy for the same. Cohen 86067-054 was also later convicted of perjuring himself to Congress. Trump did not testify before Congress on this matter so he's presumably not in jeopardy there, unless someone at the DoJ thinks they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump influenced Cohen 86067-054 to perjure himself. That would count as witness tampering.

    There is, of course, a pretty good chance that if called to the witness stand in person Trump will manage to perjure himself in a matter of minutes at the hands of an even semi-competent prosecutor (assuming he doesn't get slapped for contempt before he gets that far). Hence why his lawyers have been desperate to make sure that never happens.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Ah, but if he takes the bate, will he likely perjure himself before the grand jury?
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Ohher wrote: »
    ... except I'd really be surprised if he believes, in his heart of hearts, that he will ever die. Wonder if he actually does have an endgame in mind... or if he's just deliberately *not thinking about that, not thinking about that* as he kicks the can down the road again and again and again...

    Of course he doesn't believe "in his heart of hearts, that he will ever die." Few of us -- if our behavior is any indication -- actually do, aside from momentary confrontations with danger. Also, one might ask (at least in His Egregiousness's case), what heart?

    Hmm... I wonder if he will go for being cryogenically frozen. It would seem in character.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Ohher wrote: »
    ... except I'd really be surprised if he believes, in his heart of hearts, that he will ever die. Wonder if he actually does have an endgame in mind... or if he's just deliberately *not thinking about that, not thinking about that* as he kicks the can down the road again and again and again...

    Of course he doesn't believe "in his heart of hearts, that he will ever die." Few of us -- if our behavior is any indication -- actually do, aside from momentary confrontations with danger. Also, one might ask (at least in His Egregiousness's case), what heart?

    Hmm... I wonder if he will go for being cryogenically frozen. It would seem in character.

    As long as he is not resurrected for a long while.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Apparently Donald Trump will be arrested for Stormy Daniels related charges this coming Tuesday. How do we know this? Because the man himself published an ALL CAPS complaint whining about it on Truth Social.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Apparently Donald Trump will be arrested for Stormy Daniels related charges this coming Tuesday. How do we know this? Because the man himself published an ALL CAPS complaint whining about it on Truth Social.

    My God he's unhinged isn't he?
  • Furtive GanderFurtive Gander Shipmate
    edited March 2023
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Apparently Donald Trump will be arrested for Stormy Daniels related charges this coming Tuesday. How do we know this? Because the man himself published an ALL CAPS complaint whining about it on Truth Social.

    I heard this as a short item on BBC R4 news an hour ago. My immediate thought was if it was me (and I knew I was innocent) I'd say "if they have something on me which will stand up in court - bring it on! I think they're just trying to spoil my run for the presidency." ie NOT the whiny "please support me in big numbers against the grown-ups and make the nastiness go away!"

  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Apparently Donald Trump will be arrested for Stormy Daniels related charges this coming Tuesday. How do we know this? Because the man himself published an ALL CAPS complaint whining about it on Truth Social.

    My God he's unhinged isn't he?

    Maybe; maybe not. Somewhere, lo these many moons ago, I read the text of some testimony given by Our ex-Prez while under oath. I don't now recall what he was testifying about, or why, or in what setting this testimony was given.

    The responses T gave were utter bafflegab. Partial sentences were interspersed with ejaculations of annoyance or surprise and asides rife with irrelevant and inconsequential details, plus asides about other parties who may or may not have been present and why, plus unrelated little excursions down memory lane and extraneous commentary on what assorted third parties possibly present were wearing, eating, doing, etc.

    If this was performance, I came away completely convinced that the interviewee was an all-time champion high roller of misdirection.

    If this was genuine, I came away equally convinced I had just witnessed the verbal outpourings of someone in the throes of dementia.

    Wouldn't take odds either way.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The thought is he is trying to rally the troops to prevent his arrest. He is hoping to have a repeat of January 6. There may be some people turn out for him, but I am betting it will be much less than the mob on that awful day.
  • He is just trying to get the minions to send money.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The thought is he is trying to rally the troops to prevent his arrest. He is hoping to have a repeat of January 6. There may be some people turn out for him, but I am betting it will be much less than the mob on that awful day.

    My fear is that is that what they lack in numbers they may make up for in firepower, and unhinged willingness to use it.
  • JonahManJonahMan Shipmate
    At least in his post he admits that he is the "former" president of the US. Does this means he is no longer claiming the election was stolen?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    JonahMan wrote: »
    At least in his post he admits that he is the "former" president of the US. Does this means he is no longer claiming the election was stolen?

    Oh. it was stolen==at least in his mind.

    Watch for a vote tempering charge to come down shortly.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    JonahMan wrote: »
    At least in his post he admits that he is the "former" president of the US. Does this means he is no longer claiming the election was stolen?

    No, I think not. It doesn't take a lot of mental gymnastics to agree that Biden was actually sworn in as president and legally holds the office even if you think dodgy things happened to bring it about. Heck, most of us thought something similar when George W Bush held office after the 2000 election debacle.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Apparently Donald Trump will be arrested for Stormy Daniels related charges this coming Tuesday. How do we know this? Because the man himself published an ALL CAPS complaint whining about it on Truth Social.
    The reason I doubt an arrest will happen on Tuesday is because Trump says it will. I am so used to automatically assuming that everything he says is a lie that I won't believe this until it happens.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    The arrest will not happen, and he will thank his loyal followers, who may indeed turn up in intimidating numbers armed to the teeth, for their support.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    It may, or it may not happen on Tuesday. But it will happen eventually. He will have to answer for what he did in a court of law.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    I'm not saying it wn't happen at all, I just doubt if it will be advertised in advance.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    A Reuters account states that:
    [Trump] said "illegal leaks" indicated an arrest on Tuesday, but provided no evidence, and his spokesman said Trump had not been notified of any impending arrest.
    In other words, it looks like it is just more crap he made up.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    Reuters is reporting that an indictment is expected either late today or on Wednesday.
  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    A Reuters account states that:
    [Trump] said "illegal leaks" indicated an arrest on Tuesday, but provided no evidence, and his spokesman said Trump had not been notified of any impending arrest.
    In other words, it looks like it is just more crap he made up.

    Pikers sending money had dried up.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    There is a call to create a human moot around Mar O Lago so that law enforcement can't arrest Trump. As long as Trump stays in Florida, though, he is not likely to be extradited to New York.

    I know some Young Republicans tried to picket the Manhattan Attorney General's office but the reporters covering the event outnumber the participicipants 5 to 1.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    There is a call to create a human moot around Mar O Lago

    Good to see good old Anglo-Saxon institutions upheld nevertheless.

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    There is a call to create a human moot around Mar O Lago

    Good to see good old Anglo-Saxon institutions upheld nevertheless.

    Hey, why not? We all still use the magical number "12" from the mists of old albion to determine the proper membership for a jury.

    Is what I read in a magazine column by someone who hated the jury system, and was seeking to discredit it. I'd call the magazine itself semi-credible, though probably credible on stuff like that.
  • stetson wrote: »
    Firenze wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    There is a call to create a human moot around Mar O Lago

    Good to see good old Anglo-Saxon institutions upheld nevertheless.

    Hey, why not? We all still use the magical number "12" from the mists of old albion to determine the proper membership for a jury.
    Not everybody everywhere (in Common Law jurisdictions) all the time uses 12-member juries.

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    @Nick Tamen

    Yeah, in fact, I was just reading about Ms. Paltrow's ski-crash trial having ten jurors. But twelve has been a durable enough tradition to justify its unqualified use in a quip, I think.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    12 remains the number in my State for a criminal trial; 4 for a civil trial. There are now provisions to allow a jury to be dispensed with in a criminal trial - from memory an order dispensing with a jury has to be sought by the accused and cannot be by the prosecutor. Juries in civil trials are very rare, most commonly being used in defamation cases. In an exceptionally rare civil case, a 12 person jury can be ordered.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    It's 15 in Scotland.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    It's 15 in Scotland.

    All of these posts show that there is no one correct answer.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    Hey, why not? We all still use the magical number "12" from the mists of old albion to determine the proper membership for a jury.

    I recall reading about a situation in an early 20th century American courtroom where there were only 11 jurors available to proceed. The defense objected, making a passionate speech about the necessity of having 12 jurors and likening them to Jesus' 12 apostles. The prosecution's rebuttal was "wouldn't he have been better off with only 11?"
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    Well it looks like they've done it. It's being reported Trumps been indicted.
  • Points marshmallow roasting stick southward, in anticipation of much heat.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Taking bets on how soon the orange one will have to share a room at Rikers.
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