Mine eyes have seen the glory (BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC)
For some reason this song is indelibly linked for me to that "Wild Wild West" movie, of which I recall nothing except it being sung and a fellow parishioner being horrified at its use in the movie for some reason he never explained.
Hymns
Let all creation dance, / Darwall
Christ be my leader, / Bonnie George Campbell
As the deer pants, / As the deer pants
Come Holy Spirit, come, / Diademata
Choir
Jesus said, fear not, / G. Thalben-Ball
Do not be afraid, I am with you, / Christopher Willcock
Mine eyes have seen the glory (BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC)
For some reason this song is indelibly linked for me to that "Wild Wild West" movie, of which I recall nothing except it being sung and a fellow parishioner being horrified at its use in the movie for some reason he never explained.
It is a rousing number, though!
It's a song I think of as quintessentially American. There are plenty of US hymns that have gone global but most experience a bit of inculturation. MEHSTG, on the other hand, is almost impossible to sing without hearing the Mormon Tabernacle Choir or the US Army Chorus.
Either that or the misfortunes of parachutists or aeronauts.
As I recall the misfortune was that the senior NCO in question was not, in the event, a parachutist. This being the proximal cause of the cessation of any future skydiving expeditions on his part.
[“The Battle Hymn of the Republic” is] a song I think of as quintessentially American. There are plenty of US hymns that have gone global but most experience a bit of inculturation. MEHSTG, on the other hand, is almost impossible to sing without hearing the Mormon Tabernacle Choir or the US Army Chorus.
Well, my grandparents and others (at least other whites) of their generation and in our part of the US would have said it’s a quintessentially “Northern” song. (Not that that was a good thing. They were of a generation to have been immersed in Lost Cause Mythology from a very early age.)
Perhaps it’s some residual effects of that that have me somewhere between disliking it and ambivalent about it. And I’m afraid I really dislike singing it in church, despite it appearing in many American hymnals, that of my own tribe included. (Though I could probably count on one hand the times I’ve encountered it being sung in church, and still have a few fingers left over.) I can’t shake the feeling that it’s military propaganda dressed up in religious imagery. Big, bombastic renditions of it just emphasize that for me.
I know that others may feel differently, and that’s okay. I’m not out to convince anyone I’m right and they’re wrong. I’m just sharing my own feelings, and maybe my feelings are wrong.
I'm paying at an ecumenical service this evening for REd Wednesday (praying for persecuted Christians.) It will be at the local URC.
In Christ Alone
Within our Darkest Night = Taize
Majesty
The first one is not one thats in our RC repertoire. I must confess that its theology - "wrath of God etc" - gives me the heebie-jeebies! Luckily I just have to play the notes and not sing. Its a damned fine tune for all that.
Some places change the wrath line to “the love of God was satisfied…”. Gets rid of the wrath, but I’m not sure about what it leaves you saying about love.
I'm paying at an ecumenical service this evening for REd Wednesday (praying for persecuted Christians.) It will be at the local URC.
In Christ Alone
Within our Darkest Night = Taize
Majesty
The first one is not one thats in our RC repertoire. I must confess that its theology - "wrath of God etc" - gives me the heebie-jeebies! Luckily I just have to play the notes and not sing. Its a damned fine tune for all that.
That's the thing about Stuart Townend - he's a great hymnist but his theology is bloody awful at times.
Use as part of an act of worship doesn’t count as performance AIUI for performing rights or copyright reasons, but printing or displaying or putting online does. Si if I say to the congregation “You might want to sing these different words here” there’s no problem. But if I give them a pew sheet or bulletin with the words (or possibly if I live-stream the different words) that is different.
I’ve seen the line altered to “God’s arms of love were opened wide”
A number of variations are available, but technically illegal as Townend has refused permission for alterations to his words.
Yep. “In Christ Alone” was to have been in my tribe’s current hymnal, but with the line in question altered as @Cathscats described. Townend said “no,” so the hymn was not included.
Even if it’s legal to change the words on one’s own, I would feel uncomfortable doing so when I know doing so is against the author’s wishes. Maybe that’s just me.
All that said, I’ve only encountered “In Christ Alone” once in real life, at a (Baptist) funeral.
Evensong at 6pm Introit: Thy perfect love - Rutter
All my hope on God is founded ( Micheal)
The God Of Abraham praise ( Leoni )
Glorious things of thee are spoken (Abbot’s Leigh)
Anthem: O perfect love - Joseph Barnby
Responses: Southwell
Seven Fold Amen - Stone
A Simple Blessing
Rutter's "Thy Perfect Love" is a wonderful little anthem. Years ago I had the good fortune of buying a couple hundred copies of it from a sheet music store that was going out of business. I've given bundles of 20-30 copies away to a bunch of churches since.
I wish someone had told the editors of the Horrid Orange Book™ that they weren't allowed to mess about with the words, so we wouldn't have got abominations like "Onward, Christian Pilgrims'.
I think it's only fair to point out that Onward, Christian pilgrims is NOT a modification of Onward, Christian soldiers. It's a completely different hymn, by Michael Forster, using the same tune (St Gertrude).
I wish someone had told the editors of the Horrid Orange Book™ that they weren't allowed to mess about with the words, so we wouldn't have got abominations like "Onward, Christian Pilgrims'.
Alas, once a work is out of copyright it's fair game.
AFAIK, no-one has messed around with the words of Onward, Christian soldiers...though I may be wrong.
No, you’re right. “Onward, Christian Pilgrims” was not written as a revision of “Onward, Christian Soldiers,” but rather as an alternative to it, using the same tune and the words “Onward, Christian.”
AFAIK, no-one has messed around with the words of Onward, Christian soldiers...though I may be wrong.
No, you’re right. “Onward, Christian Pilgrims” was not written as a revision of “Onward, Christian Soldiers,” but rather as an alternative to it, using the same tune and the words “Onward, Christian.”
There is also the abominable and egregious Onward, Christian families...
God Your Almighty Word (Italian Hymn)
You Are The King Of Glory (Mavis Ford)
Guide Me O Thou Great Redeemer (Cwm Rhonda)
Hark! The Herald Angels Sing (Mendelssohn)
We have come to the end of our sermon series on Ezra-Nehemiah and looking forward to a Christmas series in Advent. Hence, the introduction of a Christmas Carol. Also, so we can sing it before we've got fed up with it through repetition. I'm not saying I agree with this viewpoint - but that's the reasoning.
I will not be at church as I’m working today. But when Mr Cats got the hymns to practise, he complained, “They’re all the same.” Pointed out that it was what is sometimes known as Christ the King Sunday and the lay preacher is obviously going for it. He commented “Couldn’t she pick even one reflective thing? It’s all jolly bombast.”
Rejoice the Lord is King- Gopsal
Majesty, worship his majesty
Immortal, invisible - St Denio
The King of love my shepherd is- Dominus Regit Me
Let all the world - Luckington
Crown him with many crowns (Diademata)
St Thomas Mass (Thorne)
Come let us join our cheerful songs (Nativity)
Alleluia sing to Jesus (Hydrofoil)
O Jesu king most wonderful (St Botolph)
Jesus shall reign (Truro)
I rather missed 'Camberwell' this year 😉
An easy Sunday I thought until an sos last night from a nearby parish for
Mattins for Sunday next before Advent
This is the day of light (Dominica)
Venite/Te Deum/Jubilate
Lord her watch thy Church is keeping (Everton)
God is working his purpose out (Benson)
A congregation of 10 countryfolk who did sing pretty well but I was so thankful they elected to say the Psalm!
"Christ the King" here too (whatever happened to The Sunday Next before Advent, or Stir-Up Sunday?) <grumble grumble>
Some not bad hymns though (plus some rather iffy):
Angel voices ever singing - Angel Voices Bind us together, Lord - Bind Us Together Majesty, worship his majesty - Majesty Come down, O Love divine - Down Ampney Ye holy angels bright - Darwall's 148th
No mention of Christ the King or Stir-Up Sunday at our place.
I raise a hallelujah in the presence of my enemies (with a very appropriate line about singing in the middle of the storm, as Storm Bert threw itself against the windows) God I look to you, I won't be overwhelmed Light of the world
No service here this morning but I joined the online service from St John's, Perth (where I think, incidentally, my Godfather was priest for many years).
Christ the King, with:
To God be the glory
Majesty, worship his majesty
I, the Lord of sea and sky
The King of love my Shepherd is
Let all the world in every corner sing
Wasn't sure of the Mass setting. Seemed half familiar but couldn't place it.
“All hail the power of Jesus' name!” - Diadem.
“At your feet we fall” [Dave Fellingham].
"Jesus is King and I will extol him” [Wendy Churchill].
“The King shall come when morning dawns” - Richmond.
“Rejoice, the Lord is King!” - Gopsal.
Christ the King at Our Place, too, with a nice selection of hymns:
Lord, enthroned in heavenly splendour (St Helen) Crown him with many crowns (Diademata) God is love, his the care (Personent hodie) O worship the King (Hanover)
As regards *Stir-up Sunday*, the post-Communion prayer for Christ the King Sunday (in the C of E's provision) reads thus:
Stir up, O Lord, the wills of your faithful people; that they, plenteously bringing forth the fruit of good works, may by you be plenteously rewarded; through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This seems to be a fair rendition of the BCP Colic for the last Sunday after Trinity.
“When in Our Music God is Glorified”/ENGELBERG
“Breathe on Me, Breath of God”/TRENTHAM
“We Lift Our Voices” (“We Are an Offering”)/OFFERING
“O That I Had a Thousand Voices”/O DASS ICH TAUSEND ZUNGEN HÄTTE
Christ the King at our place, but the intercessor led prayers based on Stir Up, which as has been pointed out is the PostCommunion prayer, so a bit back to front.
Christ the King and Yoof Sunday.
All heav' declares
Be still for the presence of the Lord.
Our God reigns.
Because it is Yoof Sunday kids from the local RC High school were brought in to read (badly) and take up the gifts at the offertory. I don't see the point. We will never see them again.
Yes. Our Place used to have the Scouts/Cubs/Beavers attend (reluctantly) two or three times a year, and they were asked to read one of the Lessons, and to lead the Prayers. Despite giving them the material in writing a couple of weeks beforehand, it was obvious that no effort had been made to practise...with the exception of one young lass, who read well, and with comprehension. I believe she is now at University...
All Praise to Thee (ENGELBERG)
Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus (STUTTGART)
Anthem: With a Voice of Singing (Martin Shaw)
Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence (PICARDY)
Jesus Shall Reign Where're the Sun (DUKE STREET)
Yes. Our Place used to have the Scouts/Cubs/Beavers attend (reluctantly) two or three times a year, and they were asked to read one of the Lessons, and to lead the Prayers. Despite giving them the material in writing a couple of weeks beforehand, it was obvious that no effort had been made to practise...with the exception of one young lass, who read well, and with comprehension. I believe she is now at University...
Little Miss Feet (now 8) reads occasionally, sometimes with minimal chance to practise, and I start to wonder why people find it so hard.
Yes. Our Place used to have the Scouts/Cubs/Beavers attend (reluctantly) two or three times a year, and they were asked to read one of the Lessons, and to lead the Prayers. Despite giving them the material in writing a couple of weeks beforehand, it was obvious that no effort had been made to practise...with the exception of one young lass, who read well, and with comprehension. I believe she is now at University...
Little Miss Feet (now 8) reads occasionally, sometimes with minimal chance to practise, and I start to wonder why people find it so hard.
I think I was about 8 the first time I read in church
This was for a very 'prayer book catholic' type of person who had laid down her orders(!) very concisely. I was roped in bescause her sister wanted someone used to playing Anglican chant 🤣 the service was pretty much the 1662 service but in what was once known as the "interim rite" order.
Sentences from BCP
Psalm 90 (sung)
Merbecke Kyrie
Gradual Psalm 130 (sung)
The Church of God a kingdom is (University) at the Offertory
Merbecke Sanctus and Agnus
The King of love (Dominus regit me) at Communion
Commendation was I think (?) lifted from the 'Cowley Missal' which book they seem to use at the altar. The coffin was watered and incensed during which the Nunc Dimittis was sung.
The vicar said "Into paradise may the angels lead thee" as the coffin was removed and then they sang O Jesus I have promised. I prefer 'Wolvercote' but the deceased apparently loved 'Day of Rest'.
A few younger family members (unsurprisingly) looked bewildered by the whole thing? I'm afraid the traditional ways seem only to be meaningful to we older ones these days 🤔
The whole church thing is alien to vast swathes of the population. I have played at countless requiems where the congregation were largely at sea. Granny identified as a RC, so the family thought it HAD to be a requiem.
Comments
My Hope is Built on Nothing Less (SOLID ROCK)
O God of Every Nation (LLANGLOFFAN)
Doxology (OLD 100TH)
God Will Take Care of You (GOD CARES)
It is a rousing number, though!
Hymns
Let all creation dance, / Darwall
Christ be my leader, / Bonnie George Campbell
As the deer pants, / As the deer pants
Come Holy Spirit, come, / Diademata
Choir
Jesus said, fear not, / G. Thalben-Ball
Do not be afraid, I am with you, / Christopher Willcock
It's a song I think of as quintessentially American. There are plenty of US hymns that have gone global but most experience a bit of inculturation. MEHSTG, on the other hand, is almost impossible to sing without hearing the Mormon Tabernacle Choir or the US Army Chorus.
As I recall the misfortune was that the senior NCO in question was not, in the event, a parachutist. This being the proximal cause of the cessation of any future skydiving expeditions on his part.
Perhaps it’s some residual effects of that that have me somewhere between disliking it and ambivalent about it. And I’m afraid I really dislike singing it in church, despite it appearing in many American hymnals, that of my own tribe included. (Though I could probably count on one hand the times I’ve encountered it being sung in church, and still have a few fingers left over.) I can’t shake the feeling that it’s military propaganda dressed up in religious imagery. Big, bombastic renditions of it just emphasize that for me.
I know that others may feel differently, and that’s okay. I’m not out to convince anyone I’m right and they’re wrong. I’m just sharing my own feelings, and maybe my feelings are wrong.
All that said, I love Sweet Honey in the Rock’s recording of “Sojourner’s Battle Hymn.” To me, that’s the stirring, inspiring version.
In Christ Alone
Within our Darkest Night = Taize
Majesty
The first one is not one thats in our RC repertoire. I must confess that its theology - "wrath of God etc" - gives me the heebie-jeebies! Luckily I just have to play the notes and not sing. Its a damned fine tune for all that.
That's the thing about Stuart Townend - he's a great hymnist but his theology is bloody awful at times.
A number of variations are available, but technically illegal as Townend has refused permission for alterations to his words.
I don't think that's true in the UK, at least for public performance.
Even if it’s legal to change the words on one’s own, I would feel uncomfortable doing so when I know doing so is against the author’s wishes. Maybe that’s just me.
All that said, I’ve only encountered “In Christ Alone” once in real life, at a (Baptist) funeral.
Rutter's "Thy Perfect Love" is a wonderful little anthem. Years ago I had the good fortune of buying a couple hundred copies of it from a sheet music store that was going out of business. I've given bundles of 20-30 copies away to a bunch of churches since.
Alas, once a work is out of copyright it's fair game.
There are at least a couple of other, different, hymns to the same tune, which, of course, one may or may not like.
CH4 has subjected it to their usual "modernisation".
Ah well - that's another can of worms!
There is also the abominable and egregious Onward, Christian families...
You Are The King Of Glory (Mavis Ford)
Guide Me O Thou Great Redeemer (Cwm Rhonda)
Hark! The Herald Angels Sing (Mendelssohn)
We have come to the end of our sermon series on Ezra-Nehemiah and looking forward to a Christmas series in Advent. Hence, the introduction of a Christmas Carol. Also, so we can sing it before we've got fed up with it through repetition. I'm not saying I agree with this viewpoint - but that's the reasoning.
Majesty, worship his majesty
Immortal, invisible - St Denio
The King of love my shepherd is- Dominus Regit Me
Let all the world - Luckington
"Who's the king of the jungle?"
Cafe style chatty family service
Parish Communion
Crown him with many crowns (Diademata)
St Thomas Mass (Thorne)
Come let us join our cheerful songs (Nativity)
Alleluia sing to Jesus (Hydrofoil)
O Jesu king most wonderful (St Botolph)
Jesus shall reign (Truro)
I rather missed 'Camberwell' this year 😉
An easy Sunday I thought until an sos last night from a nearby parish for
Mattins for Sunday next before Advent
This is the day of light (Dominica)
Venite/Te Deum/Jubilate
Lord her watch thy Church is keeping (Everton)
God is working his purpose out (Benson)
A congregation of 10 countryfolk who did sing pretty well but I was so thankful they elected to say the Psalm!
Some not bad hymns though (plus some rather iffy):
Angel voices ever singing - Angel Voices
Bind us together, Lord - Bind Us Together
Majesty, worship his majesty - Majesty
Come down, O Love divine - Down Ampney
Ye holy angels bright - Darwall's 148th
I raise a hallelujah in the presence of my enemies (with a very appropriate line about singing in the middle of the storm, as Storm Bert threw itself against the windows)
God I look to you, I won't be overwhelmed
Light of the world
Christ the King, with:
To God be the glory
Majesty, worship his majesty
I, the Lord of sea and sky
The King of love my Shepherd is
Let all the world in every corner sing
Wasn't sure of the Mass setting. Seemed half familiar but couldn't place it.
“At your feet we fall” [Dave Fellingham].
"Jesus is King and I will extol him” [Wendy Churchill].
“The King shall come when morning dawns” - Richmond.
“Rejoice, the Lord is King!” - Gopsal.
Ooh, good one. "Gone through the curtain and touching the throne".
Lord, enthroned in heavenly splendour (St Helen)
Crown him with many crowns (Diademata)
God is love, his the care (Personent hodie)
O worship the King (Hanover)
As regards *Stir-up Sunday*, the post-Communion prayer for Christ the King Sunday (in the C of E's provision) reads thus:
Stir up, O Lord, the wills of your faithful people; that they, plenteously bringing forth the fruit of good works, may by you be plenteously rewarded; through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This seems to be a fair rendition of the BCP Colic for the last Sunday after Trinity.
Any suggestions as to a remedy?
“When in Our Music God is Glorified”/ENGELBERG
“Breathe on Me, Breath of God”/TRENTHAM
“We Lift Our Voices” (“We Are an Offering”)/OFFERING
“O That I Had a Thousand Voices”/O DASS ICH TAUSEND ZUNGEN HÄTTE
Disestablishment...
All heav' declares
Be still for the presence of the Lord.
Our God reigns.
Because it is Yoof Sunday kids from the local RC High school were brought in to read (badly) and take up the gifts at the offertory. I don't see the point. We will never see them again.
Jesus Shall Reign (DUKE STREET)
At the Name of Jesus (KING'S WESTON)
Let all Mortal Flesh (PICARDY)
Crown Him with Many Crowns (DIADEMATA)
All Praise to Thee (ENGELBERG)
Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus (STUTTGART)
Anthem: With a Voice of Singing (Martin Shaw)
Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence (PICARDY)
Jesus Shall Reign Where're the Sun (DUKE STREET)
Little Miss Feet (now 8) reads occasionally, sometimes with minimal chance to practise, and I start to wonder why people find it so hard.
I think I was about 8 the first time I read in church
This was for a very 'prayer book catholic' type of person who had laid down her orders(!) very concisely. I was roped in bescause her sister wanted someone used to playing Anglican chant 🤣 the service was pretty much the 1662 service but in what was once known as the "interim rite" order.
Sentences from BCP
Psalm 90 (sung)
Merbecke Kyrie
Gradual Psalm 130 (sung)
The Church of God a kingdom is (University) at the Offertory
Merbecke Sanctus and Agnus
The King of love (Dominus regit me) at Communion
Commendation was I think (?) lifted from the 'Cowley Missal' which book they seem to use at the altar. The coffin was watered and incensed during which the Nunc Dimittis was sung.
The vicar said "Into paradise may the angels lead thee" as the coffin was removed and then they sang O Jesus I have promised. I prefer 'Wolvercote' but the deceased apparently loved 'Day of Rest'.
A few younger family members (unsurprisingly) looked bewildered by the whole thing? I'm afraid the traditional ways seem only to be meaningful to we older ones these days 🤔