Platform 9 and 4/4: A New Railway Appreciation Thread

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  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 26
    The new Bachmann model of Talyllyn is OK, I hear, but very pricey - though that seems to apply to most 009/H0e stuff these days.
  • The new Bachmann model of Talyllyn is OK, I hear, but very pricey - though that seems to apply to most 009/H0e stuff these days.

    There is a review on a certain YouTube channel ...
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    It’s an ok model for what it is- which is a Talyllyn’d version of Skarloey. There was a certain amount of dismay from some quarters that Bachmann hadn’t completely retooled it, but they were never realistically going to.

    The mod kit gives you narrower cylinders, air braking, a backhead and a fundamentally better profiled frame. Yes you have to spend £120 then do some *modelling* but you go in with your eyes open…
  • The new Bachmann model of Talyllyn is OK, I hear, but very pricey - though that seems to apply to most 009/H0e stuff these days.

    There is a review on a certain YouTube channel ...

    Hehe...yes, I know...
    It’s an ok model for what it is- which is a Talyllyn’d version of Skarloey. There was a certain amount of dismay from some quarters that Bachmann hadn’t completely retooled it, but they were never realistically going to.

    The mod kit gives you narrower cylinders, air braking, a backhead and a fundamentally better profiled frame. Yes you have to spend £120 then do some *modelling* but you go in with your eyes open…

    Well, fair enough. Those who like this kind of thing will find this the kind of thing they like!
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    Indeed - I’d absolutely love and welcome hi fidelity Talyllyn stuff that’s perfect out of the box (like the Ffestiniog items available), but with the TR we have to make do with 75% of the way there and do the last yards ourselves!
  • Indeed - I’d absolutely love and welcome hi fidelity Talyllyn stuff that’s perfect out of the box (like the Ffestiniog items available), but with the TR we have to make do with 75% of the way there and do the last yards ourselves!

    There are certainly some very fine Festiniog models on offer these days. Maybe the Talyllyn Railway, having had just the two original locomotives and the original rolling stock for the first 90 years of its life, is even more of a niche interest.

    The Bachmann model of Talyllyn could represent a freelance railway's locomotive (with a change of nameplate) - did Fletcher Jennings ever supply anything similar to anyone else?

    I have a modest amount of old H0e items (Egger Bahn mostly), and I'm currently contemplating a little freelance diorama, probably with a European flavour (the Sylvanian and Ruritanian State systems may well have had small narrow-gauge feeder lines, like those little 60cm gauge lines in Hungary...).
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited May 27
    Gosh - Egger Bahn, that takes me back! (Some was later re-released by Jouef and Roco, I understand it was inferior to the original). Do you have the "Fiery Elias" steam railcar?

    In those days 009 was treated as a bit of a joke, with sharp bends and convoluted layouts in tiny spaces. I don't think anyone did serious narrow-gauge modelling, although there was some nice stuff on the Craig & Mertonford and the rather lovely Clun Valley Tramway.

    There's still quite a lot of Hungarian narrow-gauge, although two major systems closed in 2009. I have riden on the Szilvasvarad forestry line (metre gauge I think). https://www.kisvasut.hu
  • Gosh - Egger Bahn, that takes me back! (Some was later re-released by Jouef and Roco, I understand it was inferior to the original). Do you have the "Fiery Elias" steam railcar?

    In those days 009 was treated as a bit of a joke, with sharp bends and convoluted layouts in tiny spaces. I don't think anyone did serious narrow-gauge modelling, although there was some nice stuff on the Craig & Mertonford and the rather lovely Clun Valley Tramway.

    There's still quite a lot of Hungarian narrow-gauge, although two major systems closed in 2009. I have riden on the Szilvasvarad forestry line (metre gauge I think). https://www.kisvasut.hu

    Fiery Elias was the steam tram locomotive (which in my case I have not got), but I do have the blue-and-cream steam railcar. It's based on a German prototype, albeit very much shortened to go round those curves...

    I think some of my stock is indeed the later Jouef product, and not as good as the original Egger Bahn.

    Thanks for the Hungarian link - that's the sort of railway I had in mind!

    Early 009 layouts were often of the rabbit-warren type, with the honourable exception of the Craig & Mertonford - the Clun Valley Tramway you mentioned, and the Aire Valley Railway of Derek Naylor, were 12mm gauge. The latter in particular grew into a sizeable empire, featured many times in Railway Modeller in the 60s and 70s.
  • Yes, of course - I got the tram and railcar muddled, and I was thinking of the latter.

    I don't remember the Aire Valley Railway.

    A few years ago I had a ride on a Cockerill tram engine (on the standard gauge Mid-Suffolk Railway). I've also ridden on the Corris's "Tattoo". Most enjoyable!
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 27
    The AVR first appeared in Railway Modeller in April 1961 - here's the front cover, showing the locomotive depot:

    https://image.isu.pub/180306042254-e894ffa220de21be6491144aca82f998/jpg/page_1.jpg

    Virtually everything on the layout was scratch-built, and, although originally portable, it was eventually much enlarged until it filled Mr Naylor's loft...
  • Gosh - "cab control"! I could wire a layout with that, but I have no idea with the modern DCC set-ups.

    Thanks.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I am sure I can remember reading about a very fine model exhibited by one of the clubs in the North West of quite a significant part of the Isle of Man system, at a time when rather more of it was still working than survives now. I also seem to remember reading of an impressive model founded on the County Donegal.

  • Enoch wrote: »
    I am sure I can remember reading about a very fine model exhibited by one of the clubs in the North West of quite a significant part of the Isle of Man system, at a time when rather more of it was still working than survives now. I also seem to remember reading of an impressive model founded on the County Donegal.

    You're right.

    An extensive model of the Isle of Man Railway (including the Foxdale branch!) was built and exhibited by members of the Manchester Model Railway Society in the mid-60s. The scenery was basic, but every principal station was featured, and the line could be operated in accordance with prototype practice (the IoMR closed in 1965, though the Port Erin line still survives).

    An accurate model of the County Donegal's Killybegs terminus was modelled by G R Hanan in about 1960. Unusually, he employed 00 gauge track, chassis, mechanisms etc., building to a scale of 5mm to the foot.

    The layouts were featured in Railway Modeller at the time - I still have my copies, all these years later!
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Speaking as a person who prefers his railways and locos full-size or at least narroe-gauge, I wonder if any maker is going to attempt to produce a model of the WHR's handsome 'Kalahari' No,134. The articulation may be a problem.
  • No, it's quite easy: Ka-la-ha-ri.

    But I don't think that's what you had in mind!

    Also, has anyone produced Vale of Rheidol locos? (I know that there is at least one layout based on Devil's Bridge, c.1913).

    There was a wonderful "mainline" 009 layout at last year's Cardiff show - comes right at the start of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaoZx5AVD9c

  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    No, it's quite easy: Ka-la-ha-ri.

    But I don't think that's what you had in mind!

    Also, has anyone produced Vale of Rheidol locos? (I know that there is at least one layout based on Devil's Bridge, c.1913).

    There was a wonderful "mainline" 009 layout at last year's Cardiff show - comes right at the start of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaoZx5AVD9c

    Model Rail Magazine (really) and Revolution Trains are doing OO9 Vale of Rheidol locomotives. Project has been underway since 2019 but they're slated for later this year. Not sure pre-orders are open yet.
  • The WHR's splendid 134 would make an equally splendid model in 009 (or any other scale), but I shudder to think of how much it would cost...

    The VoR locos should be good, too, although all these prototypes are of somewhat limited application IYSWIM. I expect some of you have seen Rapido's announcement of their new 009 range - just the one locomotive (a Kerr Stuart industrial 040T), but in various prototypical and generic guises, with an enormous assortment of suitable wagons.

    BTW, I've looked at my little assortment of H0e stock, and find that I have only one genuine Egger Bahn coach (the wooden-bodied four-wheeler with open platforms), the rest being Jouef/Playcraft items, including the delightful steam railcar.

    Still, they all look and run well, and to haul them I have a tiny Minitrains 040T of German outline, and an equally tiny Roco 4w diesel. Even the original Egger Bahn locomotives weren't especially reliable, and the less said about the later Jouef/Playcraft copies, the better...

    Now, where did I put that bundle of Peco 009 track?
  • The VoR locos should be good, too, although all these prototypes are of somewhat limited application IYSWIM.
    Indeed so.
    I expect some of you have seen Rapido's announcement of their new 009 range - just the one locomotive (a Kerr Stuart industrial 040T), but in various prototypical and generic guises, with an enormous assortment of suitable wagons.
    Yes, very clever.

  • The railcar in the video I posted is cunning: it's a "cut-down" version of the NER standard gauge petrol-electric car (I asked the modeller, to check!).
  • The railcar in the video I posted is cunning: it's a "cut-down" version of the NER standard gauge petrol-electric car (I asked the modeller, to check!).

    I noticed that - yes, he did a Good Job there...
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    edited May 29
    Wonderful video, TYVM for this! :smile:

    NB. The Hand of God at 2'15" in!
  • The Hand Of God is a most useful accessory...albeit not so much in evidence at exhibitions as it was in (say) the 60s and 70s.

    A perennial problem with 009 and other small scales is simply the need to keep track and wheels as clean as possible. Hard enough sometimes at home, but even more so in exhibition conditions.
  • Yes ... perhaps there was something to be said for 3-rail Hornby-Dublo!
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    edited May 31
    Yes ... perhaps there was something to be said for 3-rail Hornby-Dublo!

    More likely to break your foot if you drop a Dublo loco on it?

    Those class 20s and Standard 4MT tanks weighed almost as much as the prototype
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 31
    True, but it's interesting to note that some of the high-end manufacturers are now producing new models which are almost entirely made of metal...

    Mind you, if you did drop a Hornby-Dublo loco on your foot, the model would indeed probably come off best - they seem to be virtually indestructible.
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    edited May 31
    [...] A perennial problem with 009 and other small scales is simply the need to keep track and wheels as clean as possible. [...]

    For my N-gauge layout, I have a couple of Trix (Germany) 'safety power packs', which have the clever
    smooth Vario fine speed control from half wave operation - for exact control even at the slowest speeds - to full wave operation - for quiet motor performance at high speed.
    Their half-wave feature makes even tiny machines crawl at astoundingly slow speed, like for shunting or coupling, and this even works across points (mostly). It's formidable to have, I wouldn't want to miss it. I think it was invented in the 1980s, if I recall correctly.

    I myself run analogue trains, as all of us in our national N-gauge club module network; on their home layouts, some decide on digital, and sometimes we run digital modules too at exhibitions, but they're always relatively small compared to the analogue ones, the latter being much more compatible, also at international meetings.

    I wonder if digital helps with safer running? I wouldn't know.

    Of course, there's also things like track cleaning fluid, to apply by hand or (if possible) on those special track-cleaning cars with pads underneath, of which I have several - to be in the safe side. I've also got the N gauge-version of this , which is very nifty, and works as vacuum cleaner, or with other attachments.

    Club mates of mine have got entire cleaning trains with two or three engines for pulling power, and several cleaning cars with a number of implements, and this seems to work well. And it's a sight and sound to behold!

    But yes, it's a constant task really.
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    Regarding 1:1 size, I discovered this the other day:

    A video explaining shunter trucks, and a picture of a 'a shunter riding on a truck'.

    Hard and dangerous work, and in all weather conditions!
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited June 1
    Even worse when, during WW2, they had to do it at night in the blackout! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx6aL8QB_aQ
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    "Hello Joe! We're trying to keep it away from the ammunition." - Good grief!
  • From the Ministry of Information in 1941:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJeW_bzfMZM
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    From the Ministry of Information in 1941:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJeW_bzfMZM

    Which is the same film as in BT's link above... but better quality! Win-win. :smile:
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Odd that one of those Youtube pages describes the first one as an LMS film when it's clearly set on the Southern, with an ex-LSWR large tank early on, and the rescue by what looks like an N, still at that date in its pre-war livery rather than war time black.
  • Wesley J wrote: »
    From the Ministry of Information in 1941:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJeW_bzfMZM

    Which is the same film as in BT's link above... but better quality! Win-win. :smile:

    Oops - so it is! Well spotted...somehow, I overlooked BT's post, but it shows that Great Minds think alike.
    Enoch wrote: »
    Odd that one of those Youtube pages describes the first one as an LMS film when it's clearly set on the Southern, with an ex-LSWR large tank early on, and the rescue by what looks like an N, still at that date in its pre-war livery rather than war time black.

    Yes. I think it might have been filmed at Feltham, but it's certainly on the Southern.
  • I wondered if it was Feltham (did the Southern have any other hump yards?)
  • I can't recall any offhand. There were some extensive marshalling yards, but all flat, I think.
  • That's what I was thinking. My sister, at Goldsmith's College in the late 60s, had "digs" within sound of the Continental freight yard at Hither Green.
  • Yes. The Continental shed and sidings were on the Up side, and the general marshalling yard was on the Down side.

    I actually remember the Continental depot being built in 1959/1960, though only catching brief glimpses as our train (steam-hauled in those days!) sped towards London. My Old Dad used to sometimes take me by train to London in school holidays, in order to visit such tourist attractions as a very steamy and smoky Liverpool Street or King's Cross...
  • I missed steam at the London termini (except Waterloo - and that was no good because of the platform barriers). The highlights of my train-spotting trips were both at the Cross: a sighting of DP2 (a lovely but short-lived loco) and a cab ride along Platform 10 on Deltic D9009 Alycidon (still happily with us).
  • Wesley JWesley J Circus Host
    A cabride on a Deltic! Well done! :smile:
  • Well, that's what we thought, too - I was about 12 at the time.
  • My first cab ride was on a BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4T - but only for the length of Platform 1 at Our Station...invitations onto the footplate whilst an engine was stationary (*cabbing*) were fairly common.

    The Deltics were (and still are) very impressive locomotives, and not entirely unworthy successors to the Gresley Pacifics.
  • Invitations onto the footplate whilst an engine was stationary (*cabbing*) were fairly common.
    Our little group used to stand by the loco, making admiring comments. Although we didn't get any further rides, we did manage to cab a Peak at St Pancras (and have a guided tour of its innards) and an EE Type 3 at Liverpool Street.

    I've been in the cab of a couple of mainline steamers (but not travelled on them): "Clan Line" and a Stanier 8F come to mind.

  • Yes, a friend and I used to stand by the cab, making the appropriate remarks - but we were lucky, inasmuch that we lived very near Our Shed, and knew several of the drivers and/or firemen. There were quite a few local trains starting from or terminating at Our Station, and these were often crewed by local men.
  • We didn't have a Shed, and our local trains were dull DMUs. Mind you, we could "virtually" ride in the cab, if the driver hadn't shut the blinds in the front carriage!
  • We had DMUs quite early on - the Hastings units in 1957, then the Oxted and *Tadpole* classes in the early 60s, with the latter being replaced after some time by those rather nice Metro-Cammell units (as produced by Triang back in the 1950s!). I once took a trip to Redhill on one of those, and the view from the cab was indeed enjoyable. Too bad the drivers found out what the blinds were for... :disappointed: Musical gurgly mechanical noises, though - did they have AEC engines?

    Our steam locals were composed mainly of Maunsell stock (including those push-pull units employing ex-mainline Maunsell coaches, turned out in 1960-ish), or of antediluvian wooden-bodied push-pull stock...and the occasional 3-coach ex-SECR *Birdcage* set. I can see in my mind's eye one of those sets, in BR green, being hauled off to Next Town by an ex-SECR C-class 0-6-0. The old pre-grouping stock all disappeared when Our Main Line was electrified in 1961, but we still had steam locals until 1964-65, when The World Ended...

    The Southern being rather conservative as regards carriage design, the 2-car EMUs which replaced the old pre-grouping push-pull trains were not unlike the stock they replaced in layout, even having a few compartments, reached by a little corridor, in one of the coaches. They were, however, cleaner, and a bit quieter - though the trusty H-class 0-4-4Ts weren't shouty engines.
  • Musical gurgly mechanical noises, though - did they have AEC engines?
    I don't know ... but our BedPan units had Rolls-Royce engines and hydraulic transmissions, so no nasty jerky gear-changes (much higher revs than your Thumpers though!)
    The 2-car EMUs which replaced the old pre-grouping push-pull trains were not unlike the stock they replaced in layout.
    Such retrograde design did not go down well on Tyneside when they were added to the more modern-feeling LNER sets (albeit with hand-operated doors) to replace the old NER ones.

    I hate to say this - but the LMS was streets ahead of anyone else with its Liverpool area EMUs. The Glasgow Blue Trains, which I was fortunate to know in more-or-less original form, were rather similar although they had Gresley bogies - surely the last on BR?

  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I don't know all that much about Southern Electrics. I grew up in a different part of the country, where everything was steam until quite late on. However, a Southern Region corridor EMU contained the only example I ever encountered on BR of a half compartment, i.e. a bench seat on one side of the compartment and just a wall on the other. I think the technical term might have been a coupé. That was on the same summer holiday as the only tender Atlantic that I saw in BR service.

    I also encountered a two berth sleeper to that pattern on a foreign system once.

  • Yes, coupe is the right word - even some of the new 2-car units of the 50s and 60s had one!

    The Southern-style Tyneside electrics came down south when their services were turned over to DMUs (progress?), and fitted in quite well with the native stock.

    I read somewhere that the Southern's conservatism was partly due to a policy of providing as many seats as possible, given that some runs were quite long, and also to the need to get people in and out of the trains as quickly as possible - hence the multiplicity of slam-doors and six-a-side compartments.
  • I can believe that. I think the first Bulleid 4-SUBs had 11 compartments in the trailer coaches but later ones were reduced to ten as they were simply too cramped. The double-deckers were another attempt at getting the maximum number of passengers into a given length of train, but these failed because they took too long to load and unload at stations and were highly claustrophobic. (My sister rode on one, I never did). Eventually BR had to give in and lengthen platforms to 10 cars - not easy in some places. (Did that come with the Kent Coast electrification?).

    Of course the masters of compression were the GNR and LNER with their close-coupled quad- and quint-art sets .... but they needed to leave enough space for a locomotive!
  • I had a ride on the double-decker train, not long before the sets were withdrawn. Very claustrophobic, but ingenious...

    Platforms were certainly lengthened for the Kent Coast electrification, but a fair number of suburban stations were dealt with earlier. The 10-coach solution worked, despite difficulties in some places.
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