I've seen enough people leave the lavs at work without washing their hands...
I am given to understand that hands are routinely found to be much more germy and generally disgusting than penes, and that the advantage of washing one's hands after urination is more to do with washing one's hands on a semi-regular basis rather than a need to wash off penis germs.
I've seen enough people leave the lavs at work without washing their hands...
I am given to understand that hands are routinely found to be much more germy and generally disgusting than penes, and that the advantage of washing one's hands after urination is more to do with washing one's hands on a semi-regular basis rather than a need to wash off penis germs.
I've never applied my schlong to an agar plate (I'm not sure it would have made the right impression, even when demonstrating a bacteriology class for medics), but hands are certainly pretty filthy when you apply those to an agar plate.
Bacterial counts are not the whole story. One reads stories about how dishcloths have more bacteria than bog seats etc., which may be true, but the ones on the dishcloth don't come from up my arse.
Which is why I hate those coffee shop chains where you regularly see the same disgusting rag being used to wipe clean the taps on the machine. I never drink tea apart from in those places.
I've seen enough people leave the lavs at work without washing their hands...
I am given to understand that hands are routinely found to be much more germy and generally disgusting than penes, and that the advantage of washing one's hands after urination is more to do with washing one's hands on a semi-regular basis rather than a need to wash off penis germs.
The person who last used the toilet had some infection you know nothing about. By washing your hands after the toilet you are breaking the chain of infection, because you are not leaving the room with the microbes on your hand.
It's like the swiss cheese model that was discussed during COVID, there are various barriers to widespread infection. Washing hands frequently, particularly after using the toilet, is important. So is having a proper health system, having food pathogen controls and so on.
Talking about the individual gain to you of washing your hands after pissing completely misses the point of population control of pathogens.
Marvin's chafing against rules that primarily protect people who are not him is at least 5 years old now.
As I said earlier, I have a peanut allergy. These rules are very much aimed at protecting me, which means I have more right to comment on them than you do (unless, of course, you have relevant undisclosed health issues).
Marvin's chafing against rules that primarily protect people who are not him is at least 5 years old now.
As I said earlier, I have a peanut allergy. These rules are very much aimed at protecting me, which means I have more right to comment on them than you do (unless, of course, you have relevant undisclosed health issues).
Marvin's chafing against rules that primarily protect people who are not him is at least 5 years old now.
As I said earlier, I have a peanut allergy. These rules are very much aimed at protecting me, which means I have more right to comment on them than you do (unless, of course, you have relevant undisclosed health issues).
As you know, some people are hyper allergic and will go into shock from tiny amounts of peanut. I guess these rules are designed for them rather than you, if it is really true that you have an allergy but can afford to be casual with peanuts.
As to the other stuff, it seems like you've swallowed a whole load of antivax nonsense about infections. It isn't just that people here are desensitised to microbes.
Cholera we don't get. We have a lot of tuberculosis in the north of Canada. This CBC article is from north Quebec and it is the same but less worse many other north places. Talking to a guy from Africa says it is like that there too and there are other diseases too for them and us too.
Surprised nobody's mentioned norovirus which is very very contagious by the fecal oral route via unwashed hands, needs only very tiny quantities to spread and is extremely unpleasant.
I mean if you've ever had norovirus it should be obvious why it's not sensible to let random punters fondle the food. It's all very well being a Libertarian about food safety but just try crying 'Freeeeedomm!!!' while violently ejecting your dinner from both ends at once and it won't feel so clever...
Which is why I hate those coffee shop chains where you regularly see the same disgusting rag being used to wipe clean the taps on the machine. I never drink tea apart from in those places.
You have to wipe the milk steamer every time it is used otherwise any residual milk on it burns - it would be hugely wasteful to use a new cloth every time. The cloth isn't being used to wipe anything but the milk steamer, and the cloth is also constantly shot through with extremely hot steam. I don't think any bacteria could actually survive. Having been a barista they will have level 2 food hygiene certification at a minimum, and the cloths aren't filthy.
Don’t normal people wash their fruit and veg before they eat it,? not to mention their hands after getting home from the market.
And half of it will be peeled anyway.
And, salad vegetables aside, much then cooked. I don't worry about pathogens on anything I cook.
I wash fruit and veg that won't be peeled just to remove any pesticides or stray insects etc. There are pathogens that survive cooking though.
Yes but very few if you cook your food over 75c.
Some germs go into a hibernation stage to survive cooking and come out of it on reheating. Cooking everything very hot generally deals with this. Cooling quickly slows down the rate of reproduction and freezing makes them dormant.
I always cringe at adverts for washing up liquid (dish soap) that allows you to wash things in warm water. Professionally it has to be over 70c when it comes out of a pro dishwasher
Don’t normal people wash their fruit and veg before they eat it,? not to mention their hands after getting home from the market.
And half of it will be peeled anyway.
And, salad vegetables aside, much then cooked. I don't worry about pathogens on anything I cook.
I wash fruit and veg that won't be peeled just to remove any pesticides or stray insects etc. There are pathogens that survive cooking though.
Yes but very few if you cook your food over 75c.
Some germs go into a hibernation stage to survive cooking and come out of it on reheating. Cooking everything very hot generally deals with this. Cooling quickly slows down the rate of reproduction and freezing makes them dormant.
I always cringe at adverts for washing up liquid (dish soap) that allows you to wash things in warm water. Professionally it has to be over 70c when it comes out of a pro dishwasher
When washing pots and that in the school cafeteria, we would also run them through a chlorine post rinse too.
Apparently not. From what I can make out (and have seen) many people eat it straight from the packet, or what they've bought loose. That's fruit that's been picked and travelled maybe as much as halfway round the world or been handled by any amount of people.
Curiously enough, they don't often seem to suffer stomach upsets - or if they do they haven't said.
I think “haven’t said” is a key phrase here—speaking as someone having issues at both ends today as a result of eating someone else’s mushroom orzo salad! Have I told anyone? Um no, too embarrassing.
There was a discussion recently elsewhere on social media about whether mushrooms should be wiped or washed. That rapidly became quite passionate. I kept out of it, but it's certainly put me off eating mushrooms at anyone else's place.
I think “haven’t said” is a key phrase here—speaking as someone having issues at both ends today as a result of eating someone else’s mushroom orzo salad! Have I told anyone? Um no, too embarrassing.
Which is exactly the same with gambling. Anyone down the pub will have heard people talk about their winnings. It’s a rare gambler that is vocal about how much they’ve just lost.
I think “haven’t said” is a key phrase here—speaking as someone having issues at both ends today as a result of eating someone else’s mushroom orzo salad! Have I told anyone? Um no, too embarrassing.
Which is exactly the same with gambling. Anyone down the pub will have heard people talk about their winnings. It’s a rare gambler that is vocal about how much they’ve just lost.
Having said that it does seem to be socially acceptable to declare or ask (if you’ve actually been to the horse racing for the day) whether you were ‘up on the day’ and then get the gory details - but no one does that about scratch cards or anything else.
Sometimes it's the ingredients, not the hygiene. Yesterday it was the Revenge of the Nectarine - stone fruits have to be very ripe for me. A few days ago it was likely the home-made coleslaw - even though all ingredients washed. Possibly the mayonnaise - but that was freshly opened.
I also have dark suspicions of the latest diabetes meds, which have form for digestive interference.
Don’t normal people wash their fruit and veg before they eat it,? not to mention their hands after getting home from the market.
And half of it will be peeled anyway.
And, salad vegetables aside, much then cooked. I don't worry about pathogens on anything I cook.
I wash fruit and veg that won't be peeled just to remove any pesticides or stray insects etc. There are pathogens that survive cooking though.
Yes but very few if you cook your food over 75c.
Some germs go into a hibernation stage to survive cooking and come out of it on reheating. Cooking everything very hot generally deals with this. Cooling quickly slows down the rate of reproduction and freezing makes them dormant.
I always cringe at adverts for washing up liquid (dish soap) that allows you to wash things in warm water. Professionally it has to be over 70c when it comes out of a pro dishwasher
But at home there's no need to use a pro dishwasher, which is where people use washing up liquid - pro dishwashers use professional products anyway. It's the detergent that cleans things (which washing up liquid is very effective at doing given that it can clean oil off seabirds), dishes at home aside from baby bottles etc don't need to be sterilised. Even for baby things you use Milton etc (sterilising fluid) not washing up liquid.
The machines we have at work have strong detergent and rinse aids. A plate still has to be 70c when it first comes out. I am willing to admit that it a me thing, but detergents only clean.
Don’t normal people wash their fruit and veg before they eat it,? not to mention their hands after getting home from the market.
And half of it will be peeled anyway.
And, salad vegetables aside, much then cooked. I don't worry about pathogens on anything I cook.
I wash fruit and veg that won't be peeled just to remove any pesticides or stray insects etc. There are pathogens that survive cooking though.
Yes but very few if you cook your food over 75c.
Some germs go into a hibernation stage to survive cooking and come out of it on reheating. Cooking everything very hot generally deals with this. Cooling quickly slows down the rate of reproduction and freezing makes them dormant.
I always cringe at adverts for washing up liquid (dish soap) that allows you to wash things in warm water. Professionally it has to be over 70c when it comes out of a pro dishwasher
But at home there's no need to use a pro dishwasher, which is where people use washing up liquid - pro dishwashers use professional products anyway. It's the detergent that cleans things (which washing up liquid is very effective at doing given that it can clean oil off seabirds), dishes at home aside from baby bottles etc don't need to be sterilised. Even for baby things you use Milton etc (sterilising fluid) not washing up liquid.
A friend of mine got a job in a milk bottling plant as a student, back when we all used to get milk delivered in recyclable bottles. He says that although the bottles were sterilised, they were never clean
Basically yes. Hot water has more of the energy needed to liberate water molecules from the bonds that hold them together as liquid and release them into the air. Additionally, washing crockery etc. in hot water leaves it warm which continues to provide energy to help the water molecules become gaseous rather than liquid.
IMHO you can see it happen if you open a dishwasher run on hot. The warmed dishes dry quite fast unless there’s a depression that has caught an unusual amount of water.
We've got lots of stuff that's always holding water. I open the dishwasher with a tea towel in hand, or just open it, pull out the drawers, and come back later.
Hot water is a good idea, not least because it helps the crockery to dry.
I didn't know this. And I don't know what to search. Hot water dries faster than cold?
I live in a dry climate so everything dries pretty easily.
Definitely. I can see this when I put newly washed dishes in the draining rack (I don't have a dishwasher). Washed with hot water, within a couple of minutes, they're dry, and still warm, so perfect for reusing. Rinsed with cold, they'll take a while to dry.
It's all those little molecules. Heat makes them more active. Cold slows them down.
You guys call dishsoap washing up liquid? Or this washing up liquid is something else maybe. Bleach kills everything, we put that in rinse waters and we not supposed to use dish towels for drying. Air dry better from Food Safe Training.
Our way is that if there is worry about food we cook it. Doesn't matter what it is. Getting food from the south is transportation and days. Can't trust that. No to pre-cut up fruits and vegetables unless you cook up. Its bad on a septic tank (toilet water collector tank) if 7 people in a house have dance to the toilet disease and thay got to wait to go. (hope that is not too rude(
Yes "washing up liquid" is what we call dishsoap. It's a kind of detergent.
No bleach doesn't kill everything. Whilst it mostly kills the kinds of microbes that one commonly would expect to encounter, you certainly wouldn't want to put dishcloths in it as it is toxic to humans.
Even cooking doesn't kill everything, although it certainly reduces the risk of many things. It's a common truth that many stomach infections are caused by consuming salad and unwashed fruit in developing countries.
And the worst food poisoning I've had was from bagged salad - contamination of the water used to wash salad leaves in bagged salad is a very common vector.
@Burgess in the UK we call doing the dishes "doing the washing up" hence "washing up liquid".
First time Mr F was in Nepal he unwisely ate the salad garnish and was very ill. So much so, he couldn't face the complimentary champagne on the flight home. Poor lamb.
My worst (in a crowded field it must be said) was from mussels. I was fairly poor at the time and resistant to chucking any food I'd paid for. The fact mussels are now almost exclusively sold in pre-cooked packs has probably saved the industry.
In the UK it is often recommended to soak dish cloths in bleach. ( I don’t).
Never heard that myself. Is that the drying-up cloths / towels, or the cloths some people use to wash the dishes? Our washing-up thing (a mesh thing from Lakeland) goes through the washing machine weekly along with the shower curtain. The towels are changed more often, and get washed with the rest of the laundry.
I do recall as a student, along with one of my kitchen-mates, boiling the communal dish towels in a solution of washing powder because they were disgusting.
Comments
I am given to understand that hands are routinely found to be much more germy and generally disgusting than penes, and that the advantage of washing one's hands after urination is more to do with washing one's hands on a semi-regular basis rather than a need to wash off penis germs.
I've never applied my schlong to an agar plate (I'm not sure it would have made the right impression, even when demonstrating a bacteriology class for medics), but hands are certainly pretty filthy when you apply those to an agar plate.
The person who last used the toilet had some infection you know nothing about. By washing your hands after the toilet you are breaking the chain of infection, because you are not leaving the room with the microbes on your hand.
It's like the swiss cheese model that was discussed during COVID, there are various barriers to widespread infection. Washing hands frequently, particularly after using the toilet, is important. So is having a proper health system, having food pathogen controls and so on.
Talking about the individual gain to you of washing your hands after pissing completely misses the point of population control of pathogens.
As I said earlier, I have a peanut allergy. These rules are very much aimed at protecting me, which means I have more right to comment on them than you do (unless, of course, you have relevant undisclosed health issues).
I don't, but Mrs Feet does.
As you know, some people are hyper allergic and will go into shock from tiny amounts of peanut. I guess these rules are designed for them rather than you, if it is really true that you have an allergy but can afford to be casual with peanuts.
As to the other stuff, it seems like you've swallowed a whole load of antivax nonsense about infections. It isn't just that people here are desensitised to microbes.
Nobody gets sensitised to cholera.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/nunavik-tuberculosis-outbreak-colonial-neglect-1.7558501
I mean if you've ever had norovirus it should be obvious why it's not sensible to let random punters fondle the food. It's all very well being a Libertarian about food safety but just try crying 'Freeeeedomm!!!' while violently ejecting your dinner from both ends at once and it won't feel so clever...
Not good.
You have to wipe the milk steamer every time it is used otherwise any residual milk on it burns - it would be hugely wasteful to use a new cloth every time. The cloth isn't being used to wipe anything but the milk steamer, and the cloth is also constantly shot through with extremely hot steam. I don't think any bacteria could actually survive. Having been a barista they will have level 2 food hygiene certification at a minimum, and the cloths aren't filthy.
Loose fruit and veg is good because it means less plastic waste. Just wash it when you get home.
And half of it will be peeled anyway.
And, salad vegetables aside, much then cooked. I don't worry about pathogens on anything I cook.
I wash fruit and veg that won't be peeled just to remove any pesticides or stray insects etc. There are pathogens that survive cooking though.
Yes but very few if you cook your food over 75c.
Some germs go into a hibernation stage to survive cooking and come out of it on reheating. Cooking everything very hot generally deals with this. Cooling quickly slows down the rate of reproduction and freezing makes them dormant.
I always cringe at adverts for washing up liquid (dish soap) that allows you to wash things in warm water. Professionally it has to be over 70c when it comes out of a pro dishwasher
When washing pots and that in the school cafeteria, we would also run them through a chlorine post rinse too.
Curiously enough, they don't often seem to suffer stomach upsets - or if they do they haven't said.
There was a discussion recently elsewhere on social media about whether mushrooms should be wiped or washed. That rapidly became quite passionate. I kept out of it, but it's certainly put me off eating mushrooms at anyone else's place.
We have a few in Australia. Pop on down.
Indeed there are.
Which is exactly the same with gambling. Anyone down the pub will have heard people talk about their winnings. It’s a rare gambler that is vocal about how much they’ve just lost.
Having said that it does seem to be socially acceptable to declare or ask (if you’ve actually been to the horse racing for the day) whether you were ‘up on the day’ and then get the gory details - but no one does that about scratch cards or anything else.
I also have dark suspicions of the latest diabetes meds, which have form for digestive interference.
But at home there's no need to use a pro dishwasher, which is where people use washing up liquid - pro dishwashers use professional products anyway. It's the detergent that cleans things (which washing up liquid is very effective at doing given that it can clean oil off seabirds), dishes at home aside from baby bottles etc don't need to be sterilised. Even for baby things you use Milton etc (sterilising fluid) not washing up liquid.
Soap and detergent destroys bacterial cells
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/why-soap-works/
You don't wash your hands in scalding hot water to remove pathogens.
Hot water is a good idea, not least because it helps the crockery to dry.
Even if you really were unlucky enough to get a nasty pathogen on a plate, washing at 70 isn't sterilisation.
You need a autoclave, boiling temperatures, pressure and time to be entirely sure of destroying them.
A friend of mine got a job in a milk bottling plant as a student, back when we all used to get milk delivered in recyclable bottles. He says that although the bottles were sterilised, they were never clean
I didn't know this. And I don't know what to search. Hot water dries faster than cold?
I live in a dry climate so everything dries pretty easily.
I’d never thought about it either, but it makes sense - cold and damp is a thing I suppose
Yeah, I tend to open it up right after the cycle for the same reason - and the remainder of the water generally steams off to leave dry dishes.
Definitely. I can see this when I put newly washed dishes in the draining rack (I don't have a dishwasher). Washed with hot water, within a couple of minutes, they're dry, and still warm, so perfect for reusing. Rinsed with cold, they'll take a while to dry.
It's all those little molecules. Heat makes them more active. Cold slows them down.
Our way is that if there is worry about food we cook it. Doesn't matter what it is. Getting food from the south is transportation and days. Can't trust that. No to pre-cut up fruits and vegetables unless you cook up. Its bad on a septic tank (toilet water collector tank) if 7 people in a house have dance to the toilet disease and thay got to wait to go. (hope that is not too rude(
No bleach doesn't kill everything. Whilst it mostly kills the kinds of microbes that one commonly would expect to encounter, you certainly wouldn't want to put dishcloths in it as it is toxic to humans.
Even cooking doesn't kill everything, although it certainly reduces the risk of many things. It's a common truth that many stomach infections are caused by consuming salad and unwashed fruit in developing countries.
@Burgess in the UK we call doing the dishes "doing the washing up" hence "washing up liquid".
My worst (in a crowded field it must be said) was from mussels. I was fairly poor at the time and resistant to chucking any food I'd paid for. The fact mussels are now almost exclusively sold in pre-cooked packs has probably saved the industry.
I soak them in Milton.
Never heard that myself. Is that the drying-up cloths / towels, or the cloths some people use to wash the dishes? Our washing-up thing (a mesh thing from Lakeland) goes through the washing machine weekly along with the shower curtain. The towels are changed more often, and get washed with the rest of the laundry.
I do recall as a student, along with one of my kitchen-mates, boiling the communal dish towels in a solution of washing powder because they were disgusting.