Pretty undistinguished RC music at the church we visited this morning accompanied by an average strumming guitarist and a good alto recorder player.
The plus was that it was in a medieval church that is shared by the Church in Wales and the RCs. The chancel really didnt have enough space for the Eucharist to be celebrated easily. It was re-ordered in the 19th century when the pulpit was evidently seen as the main attraction and the altar and the space around it behind the rails was minimal. It being in Wales there was ample space for a choir in the choir stalls. It is listed Grade 1, so they are pretty well stuck with the arrangement - and any alterations would need sensitive discussions between the members of each church. As congregations age and decline I can see this arrangement becoming more common. Not a bad thing in my view.
I'm not sure this belongs in this thread. Apologies if it doesn't.
Forty days and forty nights- Aus der Tiefe
God forgave my sin- Freely, freely
Jesu lover of my soul- Aberystwyth
Sweet sacrament divine-Divine mysteries
God is working his purpose out- Benson
I’m so used to knowing how to fit the original words in for ‘God is working his purpose out’, that I struggled with the updated version in our book AHON, where there is actually no problem.
Forty days and forty nights- Aus der Tiefe
God forgave my sin- Freely, freely
Jesu lover of my soul- Aberystwyth
Sweet sacrament divine-Divine mysteries
God is working his purpose out- Benson
Sweet Sacrament Divine has a gorgeous tune, it encourages congregations to swoop up the octave.
But the words, oh the words. The RC version has "there in thine ear all trustfully we tell our tale of misery." Its perhaps the worst bit of doggerel I have come across in a hymn. Its news to me that the Blessed Sacrament has ears, and happily I don't have a tale of misery to tell.
I hadn’t come across Sweet sacrament divine before I joined this church. As it was the Communion hymn, the congregation left it to the choir. Fortunately our extra swooping soprano was not there!
I came across it yesterday for the first time - and didn't like it one bit.
It's a great tune for adding extra slushy harmonies, and sends RCs of a certain age straight back to their childhood. But the words are awful, in my opinion. There is a strong vein of "woe is us in this vale of tears" in Victorian RC hymns which is a poor fit with modern sensibilities.
It wasn't the bit about misery which I disliked - it was the way in which it almost seems to deify the sacrament. And yes, I did think it was slushily Victorian!
It wasn't the bit about misery which I disliked - it was the way in which it almost seems to deify the sacrament. And yes, I did think it was slushily Victorian!
AIUI, the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation does, in effect, deify the Sacrament. Whether or not such a doctrine belongs in an Anglican church is another matter...
The hymn itself is a bit slushy, I agree, but it means a great deal to one or two people I know, who have their own tales of misery to tell, but who have derived great comfort from receiving the Blessed Sacrament.
The words may not appeal to you, but there are plenty of people in this world who do have tales of misery to tell.
Whether Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament or not, actually hears them is quite another matter.
But as the verbal expression of an entire community?
A lot of hymnody fails that test.
Indeed it does. I prefer hymns to be more about Gods saving activity. They give me hope, whereas I find "misery" hymns do the opposite.
But then I prefer hymns that concentrate on "we" and "us," rather than "me."
The words may not appeal to you, but there are plenty of people in this world who do have tales of misery to tell.
Whether Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament or not, actually hears them is quite another matter.
But as the verbal expression of an entire community?
A lot of hymnody fails that test.
Indeed it does. I prefer hymns to be more about Gods saving activity. They give me hope, whereas I find "misery" hymns do the opposite.
But then I prefer hymns that concentrate on "we" and "us," rather than "me."
Unfortunately I find hymns about "God's saving activity" too theoretical and removed from my day to day existence to be of any meaning to me.
There are some more modern hymns about injustice, environment, society (or whatever) which seem to force everyone into guilt, lament and confession.
Yes there are.
And? There's biblical precedent for that - the book of Lamentations springs to mind.
There are societal injustices, environmental destruction and so on that absolutely should be provoking lamentation and confession.
Provoking them - yes. Forcing us to confess things that we may not individually feel (as yet) - no.
But hymnody does that all the time! If I had a quid for all the feelings expressed in hymns that I don't personally feel I'd be able to fund a trip to the pub after every service.
There are some more modern hymns about injustice, environment, society (or whatever) which seem to force everyone into guilt, lament and confession.
Yes there are.
And? There's biblical precedent for that - the book of Lamentations springs to mind.
There are societal injustices, environmental destruction and so on that absolutely should be provoking lamentation and confession.
Provoking them - yes. Forcing us to confess things that we may not individually feel (as yet) - no.
Or is it more a case of making us think about future choices when it comes to purchasing and voting. And of course one can always just not sing those bits.
Lent 2 at Our Place tomorrow:
To God be the glory (To God Be The Glory) From Heaven you came (words and music by Kendrick) Guide me, O thou great Redeemer (Cwm Rhondda)
Something from The Sheet
The final hymn might be 'Tis good, Lord, to be here (Carlisle), which, if the Gospel is the account of the Transfiguration, is a nice one to end with:
ETA: the Gospel for Lent 2 is the account of Jesus' meeting with Nicodemus. I think the Transfiguration must belong to another year or something, as I'm sure we've had it on Lent 2 before...
Surely you will have had the account of the transfiguration the Sunday before Lent?
We are having the kyrie from James MacMillan's St Anne Mass tomorrow and I've not sung it before and couldn't find a midi of it online. I have now, however, made a discovery that I expect to save me a great deal of time. There is an app called Playscore 2 which will play music simply by photographing the page, and for a subscription will turn it into a midi or xml file. Given the time I spend faffing with scores this has the potential to save me many hours, and it took only two attempts for it to digitise the aforementioned kyrie absolutely note perfect.
Surely you will have had the account of the transfiguration the Sunday before Lent?
<snip>
I expect we (or they) did - I wasn't there, but I do recall preaching on Lent 2 at a neighbouring church some years ago, and the Gospel was the Transfiguration account. They certainly had 'Tis good, Lord, to be here (Carlisle) on that occasion, as they use the New English Hymnal.
All Creatures of our God and King (Lasst Uns Erfreuen)
All The Way My Saviour Leads Me (All the Way)
Just as I am without one plea (Misericordia)
When I survey the wondrous cross (Rockingham)
The text today tells the story of the Woman with the Alabaster Jar.
“God, we praise you! God, we bless you!” - Hyfrydol.
“Lord, who in your perfect wisdom” - Blaenwern.
“Here is love vast as the ocean” - Dim Ond Iesu.
“Great is the gospel of our glorious God” - Pantyfedwen.
“Sent forth by God's blessing" - The Ash Grove.
Immortal, invisible - St Denio
Ming of glory, king of peace - Gwalchmai
Love Divine- Blaenwern
In heavenly love abiding - Penlan
Guide me O thou great redeemer- Cwm Rhondda
Another mixed bag at St Pete's (FWIW we had the Transfiguration last week; this week was Nicodemus):
Christ triumphant, ever reigning - Guiting Power* From heav'n you came - The Servant King Jesu, lover of my soul - Aberystwyth I lift my eyes to the quiet hills - Davos To God be the glory - To God be the Glory
* we had the Organist Who Doesn't Practise™ today, and he'd been Not Practising very hard - this was a train-wreck.
First Sunday in the month "Hymns of Praise" service.
Love Divine, All Loves Excelling - BLAENWERN
Great Is Thy Faithfulness - FAITHFULNESS
In Christ Alone - own tune (Getty / Townend)
Be Thou My Vision - SLANE
From Heaven You Came - THE SERVANT KING
Immortal, invisible - St Denio
Ming of glory, king of peace - Gwalchmai
Love Divine- Blaenwern
In heavenly love abiding - Penlan
Guide me O thou great redeemer- Cwm Rhondda
Not the Emperor Ming, the Stinky Intergalactic Dictator?
Lent 2 at Our Place tomorrow:
...Guide me, O thou great Redeemer (Cwm Rhondda)...
Good Choice for St David's Day
Indeed. That hadn't occurred to me, as Our Place (in SE England) doesn't really notice saints from other parts of the UK. I keep trying, without success, to persuade FatherInCharge to celebrate St Alban, St Edmund King and Martyr, or St Edward the Confessor, as patron saint(s) of England, rather than St George...(who he? Ed.)
From the three year cycle of the Roman Lectionary,(and some non Roman churches use this Lectionary) ,this is Year A and the Gospel passage for the Second Sunday of Lent is that of the Transfiguration.
The Church in Wales decided that Lent 2 is more important than St David (who has officially been relegated to tomorrow) so we had readings about Abraham and Nicodemus, but I added plenty of Welsh content in the music. We had:
- The God of Abraham praise
- Calon Lân (someone came to the front to translate it, as few of the congregation know much Welsh and about half the congregation come from elsewhere;* that considered, we made a very good job of it)
- Lord, we come to ask your healing (tune: Ar hyd y nos)
- As we are gathered
- Guide me O thou great redeemer
- Welsh National Anthem
At the end we had a bunch of daffodils for everyone and a choice of bara brith, Welsh cakes or birthday cake with our coffee.
Well, I have been to church this weekend—worship as part of a presbytery meeting yesterday, church this morning, and a funeral this afternoon. There was much singing.
At presbytery yesterday morning, we had:
“Lift Every Voice and Sing”/LIFT EVERY VOICE
“Lead Me, Guide Me”/LEAD ME, GUIDE ME
“The Bread and the Wine Are Here”/LOVE FEAST
“Guide My Feet”/GUIDE MY FEET
At church this morning, we had:
“Peace of God Be With You”/AS-SALAAMU LAKUM
“Forgive Our Sins as We Forgive”/DETROIT
“The Lord Now Sends Us Forth”/ENVIADO
At the funeral this afternoon, we had:
“Morning Has Broken”/BUNESSAN
“Lift High the Cross”/CRUCIFER
The Church in Wales decided that Lent 2 is more important than St David (who has officially been relegated to tomorrow) so we had readings about Abraham and Nicodemus, but I added plenty of Welsh content in the music. We had:
- The God of Abraham praise
- Calon Lân (someone came to the front to translate it, as few of the congregation know much Welsh and about half the congregation come from elsewhere;* that considered, we made a very good job of it)
- Lord, we come to ask your healing (tune: Ar hyd y nos)
- As we are gathered
- Guide me O thou great redeemer
- Welsh National Anthem
At the end we had a bunch of daffodils for everyone and a choice of bara brith, Welsh cakes or birthday cake with our coffee.
*England, Nigeria, Uganda, Germany and Korea
As well as our service today (see above), we had a home-brewed "Evening of Welsh entertainment" yesterday which included "Guide me" and the Welsh national anthem.
I nearly chose "For Wales our land" (to Finlandia) to end our service this morning but changed it for the post-communion "Sent forth by God's blessing" (to The Ash Grove).
Several folk here went home with bunches of daffodils.
Comments
The plus was that it was in a medieval church that is shared by the Church in Wales and the RCs. The chancel really didnt have enough space for the Eucharist to be celebrated easily. It was re-ordered in the 19th century when the pulpit was evidently seen as the main attraction and the altar and the space around it behind the rails was minimal. It being in Wales there was ample space for a choir in the choir stalls. It is listed Grade 1, so they are pretty well stuck with the arrangement - and any alterations would need sensitive discussions between the members of each church. As congregations age and decline I can see this arrangement becoming more common. Not a bad thing in my view.
I'm not sure this belongs in this thread. Apologies if it doesn't.
First Sunday in Lent, Parish Communion
Forty days and forty nights- Aus der Tiefe
God forgave my sin- Freely, freely
Jesu lover of my soul- Aberystwyth
Sweet sacrament divine-Divine mysteries
God is working his purpose out- Benson
Sweet Sacrament Divine has a gorgeous tune, it encourages congregations to swoop up the octave.
But the words, oh the words. The RC version has "there in thine ear all trustfully we tell our tale of misery." Its perhaps the worst bit of doggerel I have come across in a hymn. Its news to me that the Blessed Sacrament has ears, and happily I don't have a tale of misery to tell.
It's a great tune for adding extra slushy harmonies, and sends RCs of a certain age straight back to their childhood. But the words are awful, in my opinion. There is a strong vein of "woe is us in this vale of tears" in Victorian RC hymns which is a poor fit with modern sensibilities.
Whether Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament or not, actually hears them is quite another matter.
But as the verbal expression of an entire community?
A lot of hymnody fails that test.
AIUI, the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation does, in effect, deify the Sacrament. Whether or not such a doctrine belongs in an Anglican church is another matter...
The hymn itself is a bit slushy, I agree, but it means a great deal to one or two people I know, who have their own tales of misery to tell, but who have derived great comfort from receiving the Blessed Sacrament.
I myself am one of them.
Indeed it does. I prefer hymns to be more about Gods saving activity. They give me hope, whereas I find "misery" hymns do the opposite.
But then I prefer hymns that concentrate on "we" and "us," rather than "me."
Yes there are.
And? There's biblical precedent for that - the book of Lamentations springs to mind.
There are societal injustices, environmental destruction and so on that absolutely should be provoking lamentation and confession.
Unfortunately I find hymns about "God's saving activity" too theoretical and removed from my day to day existence to be of any meaning to me.
But hymnody does that all the time! If I had a quid for all the feelings expressed in hymns that I don't personally feel I'd be able to fund a trip to the pub after every service.
Or is it more a case of making us think about future choices when it comes to purchasing and voting. And of course one can always just not sing those bits.
To God be the glory (To God Be The Glory)
From Heaven you came (words and music by Kendrick)
Guide me, O thou great Redeemer (Cwm Rhondda)
Something from The Sheet
The final hymn might be 'Tis good, Lord, to be here (Carlisle), which, if the Gospel is the account of the Transfiguration, is a nice one to end with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wNCM8Gw-8o&list=RD8wNCM8Gw-8o&start_radio=1
This hymn, rather oddly, isn't in the Orange Book.
We are having the kyrie from James MacMillan's St Anne Mass tomorrow and I've not sung it before and couldn't find a midi of it online. I have now, however, made a discovery that I expect to save me a great deal of time. There is an app called Playscore 2 which will play music simply by photographing the page, and for a subscription will turn it into a midi or xml file. Given the time I spend faffing with scores this has the potential to save me many hours, and it took only two attempts for it to digitise the aforementioned kyrie absolutely note perfect.
I expect we (or they) did - I wasn't there, but I do recall preaching on Lent 2 at a neighbouring church some years ago, and the Gospel was the Transfiguration account. They certainly had 'Tis good, Lord, to be here (Carlisle) on that occasion, as they use the New English Hymnal.
All Creatures of our God and King (Lasst Uns Erfreuen)
All The Way My Saviour Leads Me (All the Way)
Just as I am without one plea (Misericordia)
When I survey the wondrous cross (Rockingham)
The text today tells the story of the Woman with the Alabaster Jar.
“God, we praise you! God, we bless you!” - Hyfrydol.
“Lord, who in your perfect wisdom” - Blaenwern.
“Here is love vast as the ocean” - Dim Ond Iesu.
“Great is the gospel of our glorious God” - Pantyfedwen.
“Sent forth by God's blessing" - The Ash Grove.
Immortal, invisible - St Denio
Ming of glory, king of peace - Gwalchmai
Love Divine- Blaenwern
In heavenly love abiding - Penlan
Guide me O thou great redeemer- Cwm Rhondda
Christ triumphant, ever reigning - Guiting Power*
From heav'n you came - The Servant King
Jesu, lover of my soul - Aberystwyth
I lift my eyes to the quiet hills - Davos
To God be the glory - To God be the Glory
* we had the Organist Who Doesn't Practise™ today, and he'd been Not Practising very hard - this was a train-wreck.
Love Divine, All Loves Excelling - BLAENWERN
Great Is Thy Faithfulness - FAITHFULNESS
In Christ Alone - own tune (Getty / Townend)
Be Thou My Vision - SLANE
From Heaven You Came - THE SERVANT KING
Not the Emperor Ming, the Stinky Intergalactic Dictator?
Indeed. That hadn't occurred to me, as Our Place (in SE England) doesn't really notice saints from other parts of the UK. I keep trying, without success, to persuade FatherInCharge to celebrate St Alban, St Edmund King and Martyr, or St Edward the Confessor, as patron saint(s) of England, rather than St George...(who he? Ed.)
Jesus calls us, o'er the tumult - St Andrew*
Lord, teach us how to pray -St Hugh
God that madest earth and heaven - Ar Hyd Y Nos
Usual chants for the canticles
Psalm 119: 33-40, which was said, as we hadn't had a chance to rehearse it (don't ask 🙄 )
* but omitting the verse about him
- The God of Abraham praise
- Calon Lân (someone came to the front to translate it, as few of the congregation know much Welsh and about half the congregation come from elsewhere;* that considered, we made a very good job of it)
- Lord, we come to ask your healing (tune: Ar hyd y nos)
- As we are gathered
- Guide me O thou great redeemer
- Welsh National Anthem
At the end we had a bunch of daffodils for everyone and a choice of bara brith, Welsh cakes or birthday cake with our coffee.
*England, Nigeria, Uganda, Germany and Korea
At presbytery yesterday morning, we had:
“Lift Every Voice and Sing”/LIFT EVERY VOICE
“Lead Me, Guide Me”/LEAD ME, GUIDE ME
“The Bread and the Wine Are Here”/LOVE FEAST
“Guide My Feet”/GUIDE MY FEET
At church this morning, we had:
“Peace of God Be With You”/AS-SALAAMU LAKUM
“Forgive Our Sins as We Forgive”/DETROIT
“The Lord Now Sends Us Forth”/ENVIADO
At the funeral this afternoon, we had:
“Morning Has Broken”/BUNESSAN
“Lift High the Cross”/CRUCIFER
And I am now whupped.
As well as our service today (see above), we had a home-brewed "Evening of Welsh entertainment" yesterday which included "Guide me" and the Welsh national anthem.
I nearly chose "For Wales our land" (to Finlandia) to end our service this morning but changed it for the post-communion "Sent forth by God's blessing" (to The Ash Grove).
Several folk here went home with bunches of daffodils.