Bad theology in the face of tragedy
Early this morning I received a GroupMe message that a coworker's uncle and cousin were killed overnight in a car accident. Immediately there followed a number of posts of condolence as well as the typical 'thoughts and prayers.' But one person posted the following response: "O taste and see that the Lord is good." Of all of the things that a person could post after a tragedy, this seemed pretty vapid to me. What the hell.
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Given the way the world has gone since the coming of Christ, it makes me wonder sometimes why he (Christ) bothered...maybe it would have been better if we'd all been Buddhists...
(Yes, I know - it's more complicated than that).
I cannot remember her story, it is quite possible she had led a life of incredible trauma and that valuing each new day was important to her, but even in those days I remember thinking that it was a quite unfortunate vocal tic.
Reading about Tourettes in the last few weeks I have been wondering if it was something like that, an involuntary utterance that she said so often that it became automatic. I remember another friend of my grandmother who was funny to talk to because she would show she was listening to you by repeating back to you the last thing you said. "I went to Weston last weekend" "Oh that's right, you had a lovely time in Weston last weekend"
I do not use Facebook or similar things but it seems like a place where one might see similar repeated behaviours. People grieve and express condolences in different ways, it is probably best to try not to take offense as they probably do not mean to be hurtful.
Understandably, but I think @Baptist Trainfan makes a valid point. There are some people who try to persuade themselves (and everyone else) that nothing - however bad or tragic - happens outside God's Plan™.
They may, or may not, be right.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4756112/
It seems like there could be other neurological conditions that mean one types inappropriate looking phrases into Facebook pages.
I fortunately do not have a neurological condition like that so unfortunately I have no excuses for my own inappropiate typing.
I think that would be my next step. Send a private message to the person in question, asking what he/she/they meant before I go to another board and ask, "What the hell."
A Shipmate educated me about a thing called "spiritual bypassing". It's something that some people do when they are having doubts or difficult feelings about God and can't cope in healthy ways with that, so they skip immediately to these kinds of obnoxious statements. I have someone in my family who does this, I think possibly because he genuinely worries that he might get smitten or something if he says "That sucks" or expresses anger toward God.
And then there are the people who think you can "manifest" something terrible if you ever, ever verbally acknowledge that bad things happen. And for them, saying this stuff is a way of warding off more evil.
I wish there was some way to prevent it, it just hurts more people. Ugh.
The person in question has no afflictions or dementia. They are outwardly religious, and a source of a lot of God talk.
Do let us know when your opportunity presents itself. FFS.
Sounds like a few clergy I've been acquainted with...
Is that response a sort of equivalent to the 'thoughts and prayers' thing?
How can I? I am not on the app you referenced. You are. What I am asking is why are you bringing a concern you are having on one app to a separate board? The old Matthew 18 directive applies: If you take offense at what your brother/sister is doing, go show them the offense...
Exactly that.
Just so, and I don't doubt that both are meant as kindly gestures, even though they may not always come over as such...
I brought it here to vent about it. Your tut-tutting notwithstanding, it's nice to know I'm not alone in feeling as if the response of my coworker to a double death was, at best, tone deaf.
Truly, I hope I am correct in assuming they must be in tremendous pain to justify the use of such a thick layer of callous.
It is my experience that some of the most horrific coping strategies come from people who are in significant pain themselves, though it's no justification. I'm not really qualified to quantify, that sucks all around.
This always reminds me of Ricky Gervais comment after a natural disaster (IIRC) ->
"I found out that lots of people were sending the victims thoughts and prayers. That made me feel stupid - I sent money"
I don't understand
I tend to see such lazy and cost-free responses as latching on to someone elses misfortune to make oneself seem empathetic.
You were raised a hick in the far west, so it's understandable, I suppose (though other hicks might say 'not all hicks') that, even after enough theological education to get yourself ordained you think it's weird for people to have a tradition of having the last words on their lips at the point of death be their primary statement of faith. Well, bless your heart.
It's a rhyme.
And Job is a horrific and tragic story, and terrible example of anything except God's willingness to facilitate the abject misery of humanity.
If you have the cot-caught merger. Otherwise it's a bit more obscure.
I saw one in the English Midlands the other week on the family tomb of the local gentry who lived in the nearby hall. The couple had lost a child shortly before his first birthday. There was a doggerel rhyme saying how fortunate the child was being taken to heaven so soon without having to suffer pains and trials during a longer life.
As some of you will have picked up, I'm a big John Wesley fan but some of the things he said to grieving parents beggar belief. God has taken your child because you loved them more than you loved him.
I'll hold my hand up. I once said something completely crass and shitty to someone by way of offering consolation after a cot death.
What an arsehole.
Isn't just mocking T&Ps?
Amos. I first heard the Shema Isreal long before I entered my theological education. During my theological education, I finally understood the depth of the confession.
As to your "blessing." Aren't you precious for giving it? Someone has to have one.
This.
I've heard or read recently that 'I'm sorry for your loss' is a good, if rather terse, response. Depends on what tone in which it's said, maybe, but I see the point. Less is more?
And I think that's how the Father handles it too.
I had a chat recently with someone I’ve known my whole life. He was remembering that when his 9-year-old son died of cancer, my mother was the first person who appeared at their house. And he remembered that all she said was “I’m sorry.” “She didn’t try to dress it up or offer platitudes,” he said. That was 30 years ago, and it clearly still meant something to him.
(That said, knowing my mother, and knowing the town in the American South where we all lived, she had food in her hands when she appeared at the door and said “I’m sorry.”
I’m reminded of a Paul Claudel quote that I’ve frequently returned to: “Jesus Christ did not come to do away with suffering; he did not even come to explain it. He came to fill it with his presence.” I think what you did, @Mr E, was to embody the presence of Christ.
When I lost my wife to cancer the comments and reactions I valued most were those from people who either said nothing and were simply 'there' or said something unembellished.
Two non-Christians I knew simply used an expletive that belongs in Hell on these boards.
Weirdly perhaps, that helped too.
I've gone that route for ghastly news myself - it seems to be an acceptable shorthand for the words you can't string together, for the words that can't say what you feel, can't help the pain. I'd understand if someone said it to me.
I think that says all that there is to be said (sometimes I remember who the patient was but sometimes it's just a name, but to the caller it was their loved one and I should acknowledge their loss). But I will always remember the man who called me to inform me that his 94 year old father had passed away. I said "I'm sorry" to which he replied: don't be. He'd had a good innings and was ready to go.
Grief and realism don't have to be so far apart.
God, hope in the dark,
sometimes the only prayer we can pray is “Damn it!”
I was once told I spoke like a Hallmark Card. There was a reason for that. It's safer when you're not too close to the tragedy to stick to simple, honest sentiments of grief.
I've gone that route for ghastly news myself - it seems to be an acceptable shortha
This is definitely a situation when the sweary approach should be avoided!
To think God will take pause at the death of someone he loves is comforting to many people.