I'm starting to think that hicks like the ones I grew up around are eternal, transcending time and space. Jacob and Esau, y'all. Enkidu and Gilgamesh. Civilization and its Discontents.
The basic idea is probably as old as the city itself. Certainly 'paganus' has that sort of connotation, and 'heathen' has a similar etymology.
Whether there were related ideas before the first cities, perhaps the first settled villagers had them about nomads or vice versa, it's hard to know.
In Scotland the equivalent term is 'teuchter'.
Having had a good number of neo-pagan friends, the etymology of "paganus" cracks me up every time I think about it. The irony is rich. Never heard "teuchter" before.
North East Quine may have the definitive answer, but I understand 'teuchter' to mean someone from the rural north east of Scotland, especially the Doric speakers of the hinterland of Aberdeenshire.
Unless someone is jokingly applying it to themselves it's a slur - see the Scottish National Dictionary definition - spoilered below as I dont come into that category
TEUCHTER, n. 1. Also cheuchter, chuchter, choochter, a term of disparagement or contempt used in Central Scotland for a Highlander, esp. one speaking Gaelic, or anyone from the North. (Cai., e. and wm.Sc. 1972; Cai., Bnff., Ags., Edb., Gsw., Ayr., Dmf., Rxb. 2000s). Also attrib
I've only heard it in the wild from a Gaelic-speaking Sgiathanach who used it to describe a particular turn of phrase she considered particularly, well, yokelish I suppose.
Oh I've heard in the wild from someone from Glasgow who really should have known better. They were a central belt Scot who was disparaging Gaelic culture and history with it - and that derogatory sense used to be a lot more common than it is now. It's a different thing when lowlanders use it that way.
I'm pretty sure you can buy coasters, mugs etc printed with the word "teuchter." I've heard it used within the last month as a self-descriptor in a joke which was too niche to repeat here.
I've heard it applied to the highlands and islands in general (and Gaelic speakers in particular), I'd not previously heard it associated with the north east.
Actually, in the north east "toonser" refers to people in Aberdeen city and "teuchter" to people in Aberdeenshire. Toonsers may use teuchter disparagingly, but teuchters are equally likely to use toonser disparagingly.
Actually, in the north east "toonser" refers to people in Aberdeen city and "teuchter" to people in Aberdeenshire. Toonsers may use teuchter disparagingly, but teuchters are equally likely to use toonser disparagingly.
Differences can occur over very short distances here in the UK, as @Arethosemyfeet observes with the example of Todmorden and Hebden Bridge. The former is more genuinely working-class whereas Hebden is full of well-heeled alternative and arty types and properties cost an arm and a leg.
In London one end of a street can be very gentrified and the other end the opposite. In Leeds you can go from a run-down area to an upmarket one in a matter of a few hundred yards.
If you go down the Caledonian Road in Islington, London, (as I did last year for our rental flat) it's all very down at heel. But take a side street, and you come to very well-heeled areas of expensive cars outside expensive homes. According to a friend who lived there in the latter half of the last century, this was ever the case.
Actually, in the north east "toonser" refers to people in Aberdeen city and "teuchter" to people in Aberdeenshire. Toonsers may use teuchter disparagingly, but teuchters are equally likely to use toonser disparagingly.
Mutual contempt is a vibe I recognize.
I think "contempt" is a bit strong for the City / Shire division.
Actually, in the north east "toonser" refers to people in Aberdeen city and "teuchter" to people in Aberdeenshire. Toonsers may use teuchter disparagingly, but teuchters are equally likely to use toonser disparagingly.
Mutual contempt is a vibe I recognize.
I think "contempt" is a bit strong for the City / Shire division.
Differences can occur over very short distances here in the UK, as @Arethosemyfeet observes with the example of Todmorden and Hebden Bridge. The former is more genuinely working-class whereas Hebden is full of well-heeled alternative and arty types and properties cost an arm and a leg.
In London one end of a street can be very gentrified and the other end the opposite. In Leeds you can go from a run-down area to an upmarket one in a matter of a few hundred yards.
If you go down the Caledonian Road in Islington, London, (as I did last year for our rental flat) it's all very down at heel. But take a side street, and you come to very well-heeled areas of expensive cars outside expensive homes. According to a friend who lived there in the latter half of the last century, this was ever the case.
That's interesting. In my adopted city, it used to be the case that the large majority of the inner-city and quite a lot of the surrounding belts too were a bit, errr, rum - and only a few suburbs were the refuge of those with a nice car or two and a TV and video they hoped to hang onto for the foreseeable. But now things are much more like you describe. I think wildly increasing rents / house prices and a shortage of affordable places to live has made things much more like they have been for much longer in London. I am amazed at the bits of the city now described as 'sought-after'.
Differences can occur over very short distances here in the UK, as @Arethosemyfeet observes with the example of Todmorden and Hebden Bridge. The former is more genuinely working-class whereas Hebden is full of well-heeled alternative and arty types and properties cost an arm and a leg.
In London one end of a street can be very gentrified and the other end the opposite. In Leeds you can go from a run-down area to an upmarket one in a matter of a few hundred yards.
If you go down the Caledonian Road in Islington, London, (as I did last year for our rental flat) it's all very down at heel. But take a side street, and you come to very well-heeled areas of expensive cars outside expensive homes. According to a friend who lived there in the latter half of the last century, this was ever the case.
That's interesting. In my adopted city, it used to be the case that the large majority of the inner-city and quite a lot of the surrounding belts too were a bit, errr, rum - and only a few suburbs were the refuge of those with a nice car or two and a TV and video they hoped to hang onto for the foreseeable. But now things are much more like you describe. I think wildly increasing rents / house prices and a shortage of affordable places to live has made things much more like they have been for much longer in London. I am amazed at the bits of the city now described as 'sought-after'.
Makes me think of a joke in Red Dwarf where Kochanski says she was brought up in the trendiest part of Glasgow and Lister replies "yeah, the Gorbals, you said".
Differences can occur over very short distances here in the UK, as @Arethosemyfeet observes with the example of Todmorden and Hebden Bridge. The former is more genuinely working-class whereas Hebden is full of well-heeled alternative and arty types and properties cost an arm and a leg.
In London one end of a street can be very gentrified and the other end the opposite. In Leeds you can go from a run-down area to an upmarket one in a matter of a few hundred yards.
If you go down the Caledonian Road in Islington, London, (as I did last year for our rental flat) it's all very down at heel. But take a side street, and you come to very well-heeled areas of expensive cars outside expensive homes. According to a friend who lived there in the latter half of the last century, this was ever the case.
That's interesting. In my adopted city, it used to be the case that the large majority of the inner-city and quite a lot of the surrounding belts too were a bit, errr, rum - and only a few suburbs were the refuge of those with a nice car or two and a TV and video they hoped to hang onto for the foreseeable. But now things are much more like you describe. I think wildly increasing rents / house prices and a shortage of affordable places to live has made things much more like they have been for much longer in London. I am amazed at the bits of the city now described as 'sought-after'.
Makes me think of a joke in Red Dwarf where Kochanski says she was brought up in the trendiest part of Glasgow and Lister replies "yeah, the Gorbals, you said".
In the USA they call this "gentrification" and entire articles have been written about it. My own neighborhood has had running anxieties about it, though we seem to somehow keep it at bay. The ironies of the situation cut deep along multiple vectors.
In the USA they call this "gentrification" and entire articles have been written about it. My own neighborhood has had running anxieties about it, though we seem to somehow keep it at bay. The ironies of the situation cut deep along multiple vectors.
First person I heard joke 'the shootings are how we keep [neighborhood] affordable' was a Black queer woman.
She was very aware of the dark intersectionalities there. She and her Black trans husband were in helping fields, not paid particularly well. They could have afforded things easier if they'd moved to the suburbs. Some of the suburbs would have warmly welcomed them as a queer couple, but she never felt welcomed as a Black woman there. (I'm paraphrasing.) And she often missed Black churches like the ones she'd gone to when younger, but in those churches she could reveal that theirs was a queer marriage, she said. So she kept coming back, and she joked about the shootings.
Comments
I've only heard it in the wild from a Gaelic-speaking Sgiathanach who used it to describe a particular turn of phrase she considered particularly, well, yokelish I suppose.
Thanks! Pardon me for missing boundaries. I should know better.
I have to post this here, don't I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUaqkp2xMzY
Mutual contempt is a vibe I recognize.
If you go down the Caledonian Road in Islington, London, (as I did last year for our rental flat) it's all very down at heel. But take a side street, and you come to very well-heeled areas of expensive cars outside expensive homes. According to a friend who lived there in the latter half of the last century, this was ever the case.
I think "contempt" is a bit strong for the City / Shire division.
Nuance appreciated.
That's interesting. In my adopted city, it used to be the case that the large majority of the inner-city and quite a lot of the surrounding belts too were a bit, errr, rum - and only a few suburbs were the refuge of those with a nice car or two and a TV and video they hoped to hang onto for the foreseeable. But now things are much more like you describe. I think wildly increasing rents / house prices and a shortage of affordable places to live has made things much more like they have been for much longer in London. I am amazed at the bits of the city now described as 'sought-after'.
Makes me think of a joke in Red Dwarf where Kochanski says she was brought up in the trendiest part of Glasgow and Lister replies "yeah, the Gorbals, you said".
In the USA they call this "gentrification" and entire articles have been written about it. My own neighborhood has had running anxieties about it, though we seem to somehow keep it at bay. The ironies of the situation cut deep along multiple vectors.
She was very aware of the dark intersectionalities there. She and her Black trans husband were in helping fields, not paid particularly well. They could have afforded things easier if they'd moved to the suburbs. Some of the suburbs would have warmly welcomed them as a queer couple, but she never felt welcomed as a Black woman there. (I'm paraphrasing.) And she often missed Black churches like the ones she'd gone to when younger, but in those churches she could reveal that theirs was a queer marriage, she said. So she kept coming back, and she joked about the shootings.