It always made me smile that events like Spring Harvest always scheduled seminars on ‘Healing’ the day after an Ishmael praise party. I’m sure many worship-related injuries were sustained during an energetic holy-pogo session.
It always made me smile that events like Spring Harvest always scheduled seminars on ‘Healing’ the day after an Ishmael praise party. I’m sure many worship-related injuries were sustained during an energetic holy-pogo session.
Ugh. Don't remind me of that era. Cheese masquerading as spiritually or was it spiritually masquerading as cheese? I can't decide.
AFAIK it was aimed at fairly young children, so likely the kind of stuff you quickly outgrow and think is cringe. It was also a lot more serious to start with, but then parents objected to kids doing serious worship.
Nothing wrong with him imo, just a very specific type of music not to everyone's taste and originally from a church background that some people have had bad experiences within-please see my earlier post at the bottom of page one of this thread!
Apologies for double post,
Yes that's him and I've just realised that after all these years on the Ship I don't know how to link back to my earlier post!! Any help appreciated as I really felt deeply about what I wrote.
Nothing wrong with him imo, just a very specific type of music not to everyone's taste and originally from a church background that some people have had bad experiences within-please see my earlier post at the bottom of page one of this thread!
Yes, that makes sense—I looked his stuff up on YouTube and it’s not my thing, but if people of whatever age get good things out of it, more power to him and them! ❤️
Apologies for double post,
Yes that's him and I've just realised that after all these years on the Ship I don't know how to link back to my earlier post!! Any help appreciated as I really felt deeply about what I wrote.
Go to the post you want to link to and click on the date in the upper right. That will bring up the thread with your post at the top. Copy the url and then use that to link to the post, like this (the post you mentioned from the bottom of Page 1).
Apologies for double post,
Yes that's him and I've just realised that after all these years on the Ship I don't know how to link back to my earlier post!! Any help appreciated as I really felt deeply about what I wrote.
Go to the post you want to link to and click on the date in the upper right. That will bring up the thread with your post at the top. Copy the url and then use that to link to the post, like this (the post you mentioned from the bottom of Page 1).
I hope you don't think I was 'having a go' at Ishmael, @MrsBeaky.
I was reporting the reactions of others, not my own. As you can imagine, having moved from charismatic evangelicalism to a more sacramental and 'ritualised' setting, I have sympathy for those like Ishmael who opt for cathedral-style worship and so forth.
I remember him from Spring Harvest on 1981 and 1982 and read one of his books.
His music wasn't my thing but then it was aimed at kids rather than me, and although I thought he pushed things a bit too far at times I always felt he was sincere and had integrity.
I'm pleased to hear that he and his wife have made a very positive contribution to the life of Chichester Cathedral.
Some evangelical Anglicans I know we're disappointed that he'd ended up at Chichester Cathedral. They clearly thought it represented a backward step. I wouldn't view it in those terms, but then I've got to be careful not to judge them either.
@chrisstiles - I couldn't open those links for some reason but imagine they'd lead to the sort of thing I had in mind.
Ishmael was amazing - bringing some aspect of punk into Christian music.
I have resisted posting on this thread, because it is hard. There are many mentioned on here who I liked at some point - Larry Norman, Rand Stonehill, ATF. ALso Adrian Snell - stunning musician.
But in all sorts of ways, these have all been poisoned for me. Associations with churches and church movements I have rejected - sometimes very strongly.
To the point where I really don't like hearing Christian messages in songs at all.
Especially the CCM-style slush, where I don't like the music either.
I hope you don't think I was 'having a go' at Ishmael, @MrsBeaky.
I was reporting the reactions of others, not my own. As you can imagine, having moved from charismatic evangelicalism to a more sacramental and 'ritualised' setting, I have sympathy for those like Ishmael who opt for cathedral-style worship and so forth.
I remember him from Spring Harvest on 1981 and 1982 and read one of his books.
His music wasn't my thing but then it was aimed at kids rather than me, and although I thought he pushed things a bit too far at times I always felt he was sincere and had integrity.
I'm pleased to hear that he and his wife have made a very positive contribution to the life of Chichester Cathedral.
Some evangelical Anglicans I know we're disappointed that he'd ended up at Chichester Cathedral. They clearly thought it represented a backward step. I wouldn't view it in those terms, but then I've got to be careful not to judge them either.
Thanks Gamaliel
I wasn't sure from the wording of your comment whether you were simply reporting someone else's opinion or agreeing with it.
Unless a criticism is based on firsthand experience of another person I am personally very uncomfortable about the sharing comments which might impugn someone else's character which is why I wanted to set the record straight for other readers of this thread.
I've resisted for ages, but finally I can do so no longer and must drop in Half Man Half Biscuit's "Christian Rock Concert". I don't think Nigel Blackwell is a fan, but he certainly knows all the tropes.
I've resisted for ages, but finally I can do so no longer and must drop in Half Man Half Biscuit's "Christian Rock Concert". I don't think Nigel Blackwell is a fan, but he certainly knows all the tropes.
I expect some remember Christe Eleison Mardi Gras by The Electric Prunes.
A small Anglican church in Brisbane used to play it as part of the pre-service music.
It didn't go so far as using Norman Greenbaum's Spirit In The Sky.
I expect some remember Christe Eleison Mardi Gras by The Electric Prunes.
A small Anglican church in Brisbane used to play it as part of the pre-service music.
It didn't go so far as using Norman Greenbaum's Spirit In The Sky.
Yep this old duck recalls the Electric Prunes well from 1969 ( final year of high school).
Yes, that was a good version. For some reason one of the licks in the original - which I don't mind at all incidentally- reminds me of the sound of peeing in a bucket as the level fills.
You didn't want to know that.
@Sandemaniac - I'm only familiar with the name HMHB. I must have missed out. Any particular albums you recommend?
@MrsBeaky apologies if I gave the impression I was having a go. I wasn't.
I have a fondness for Bob Dylan's Christian albums, and his renditions of Christmas Carols on The Christmas in the Heart album, but then I am a bit of a Bobcat.
Ishmael was great when he came to our church to do an event. He wanted a band and I was 'volunteered' to play bass.
When I used to do a bit of music, with my acoustic guitar, on Christian CU youth camps I did some of his songs and they went down well. I loved the way he would just take an apposite Bible verse and make up a catchy fun little song for it.
I have a fondness for Bob Dylan's Christian albums, and his renditions of Christmas Carols on The Christmas in the Heart album, but then I am a bit of a Bobcat.
Although I love a lot of BD's music, I am not keen on his Christian albums. His Dear Landlord and Frankie Lee/Judas Priest were more interesting for me.
I have a fondness for Bob Dylan's Christian albums, and his renditions of Christmas Carols on The Christmas in the Heart album, but then I am a bit of a Bobcat.
I’m not a fan of his voice, but “Must Be Santa” is a riot and essential for every Christmas cabaret I do. Plus the video is such fun!
Most Christian music outside what you would hear at an RC or Episcopal parish in the US is pretty foreign to me, but through school friends I had some exposure to the CCM and Christian rock of the 90's and early 2000's. Plus about a third of the radio stations where I lived at the time were playing it. Every now and then I intentionally or accidentally happen upon a Christian radio station and what they are playing sounds about the same, even if it is in Spanish or another language other than English.
How would people say that CCM has evolved since that time? I've always had a hard time getting into Christian music because it seems to lack a real sense of a driving beat or an edge to its sound or its lyrics. I can find transgressive, rebellious, and sensual elements in the Christian music of almost any other period in history, but contemporary Christian popular music and worship songs seem so packaged and smoothed out that they feel more like New Age music for "positive vibes" than anything else - and this blandness carries over to just about any genre of contemporary Christian music, whether it is hard rock or hip hop. Does anyone know something relatively recent that might prove me wrong?
Most Christian music outside what you would hear at an RC or Episcopal parish in the US is pretty foreign to me, but through school friends I had some exposure to the CCM and Christian rock of the 90's and early 2000's. Plus about a third of the radio stations where I lived at the time were playing it. Every now and then I intentionally or accidentally happen upon a Christian radio station and what they are playing sounds about the same, even if it is in Spanish or another language other than English.
How would people say that CCM has evolved since that time? I've always had a hard time getting into Christian music because it seems to lack a real sense of a driving beat or an edge to its sound or its lyrics. I can find transgressive, rebellious, and sensual elements in the Christian music of almost any other period in history, but contemporary Christian popular music and worship songs seem so packaged and smoothed out that they feel more like New Age music for "positive vibes" than anything else - and this blandness carries over to just about any genre of contemporary Christian music, whether it is hard rock or hip hop. Does anyone know something relatively recent that might prove me wrong?
How recent does it need to be? There is some stuff—actually, a lot—which is not bland at all, but the stuff put out for Christian radio in recent years has been exactly as you describe, with the whole “safe for the whole family” approach. There’s a bunch of analyses of the whole “watered-down worship song” approach I’ve been running across lately.
The ones I mentioned earlier, especially Steve Taylor and Daniel Amos/Terry Scott Taylor, are definitely different from that, I’m happy to say. I’ve heard good things about early-ish Newsboys (basically the Steve Taylor era in which he was writing their songs, and long before Peter Furter left and Michael Tait (yikes on multiple levels) came on board, basically the 90s) and I need to check them out.
Anyone but me into or heard of Daniel Amos? They’re unusual and I love them.
I think I saw them at a Greenbelt a long time ago. I went to...a few. But I don't remember more. Want to link to an album, or tracks, on youtube? (I'll be away for a week, so it'll take me a while to look for this - please tag me if you do it).
The only CCM group I know which includes references to T.S. Eliot, Dostoevsky, William Blake, 1950s science fiction movies, Koko the gorilla, and more...
Though Jeff Johnson's awesome stuff is also literary and poetic, but not really rock/pop/punk/new wave the way DA is.
Comments
So popular they've had to schedule and second show the next day.
You mean this kind of thing? https://www.vintag.es/2020/01/bad-christian-album-titles.html
or
https://boysbiblestudy.libsyn.com/mark-fox-lil-markie-live-in-miami
Ugh. Don't remind me of that era. Cheese masquerading as spiritually or was it spiritually masquerading as cheese? I can't decide.
https://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/music/Ishmael_From_Jesus_music_to_punk_to_childrens_minister_to_CofE_Deacon/44030/p1/
Nothing wrong with him imo, just a very specific type of music not to everyone's taste and originally from a church background that some people have had bad experiences within-please see my earlier post at the bottom of page one of this thread!
Apologies for double post,
Yes that's him and I've just realised that after all these years on the Ship I don't know how to link back to my earlier post!! Any help appreciated as I really felt deeply about what I wrote.
Yes, that makes sense—I looked his stuff up on YouTube and it’s not my thing, but if people of whatever age get good things out of it, more power to him and them! ❤️
Thank you- that's so helpful
I was reporting the reactions of others, not my own. As you can imagine, having moved from charismatic evangelicalism to a more sacramental and 'ritualised' setting, I have sympathy for those like Ishmael who opt for cathedral-style worship and so forth.
I remember him from Spring Harvest on 1981 and 1982 and read one of his books.
His music wasn't my thing but then it was aimed at kids rather than me, and although I thought he pushed things a bit too far at times I always felt he was sincere and had integrity.
I'm pleased to hear that he and his wife have made a very positive contribution to the life of Chichester Cathedral.
Some evangelical Anglicans I know we're disappointed that he'd ended up at Chichester Cathedral. They clearly thought it represented a backward step. I wouldn't view it in those terms, but then I've got to be careful not to judge them either.
@chrisstiles - I couldn't open those links for some reason but imagine they'd lead to the sort of thing I had in mind.
I have resisted posting on this thread, because it is hard. There are many mentioned on here who I liked at some point - Larry Norman, Rand Stonehill, ATF. ALso Adrian Snell - stunning musician.
But in all sorts of ways, these have all been poisoned for me. Associations with churches and church movements I have rejected - sometimes very strongly.
To the point where I really don't like hearing Christian messages in songs at all.
Especially the CCM-style slush, where I don't like the music either.
Thanks Gamaliel
I wasn't sure from the wording of your comment whether you were simply reporting someone else's opinion or agreeing with it.
Unless a criticism is based on firsthand experience of another person I am personally very uncomfortable about the sharing comments which might impugn someone else's character which is why I wanted to set the record straight for other readers of this thread.
https://youtu.be/bdFAp3k2j14?is=WiLnvSGEAaRYQSEk
BTW, I don't try to drop HMHB into every thread I post on.
Just most of them.
That link has taken me to a stairlift advert!!!
Try this. If you dare...
https://youtu.be/3myl_my_89k?is=oLlUAnj79VfuaLgy
A small Anglican church in Brisbane used to play it as part of the pre-service music.
It didn't go so far as using Norman Greenbaum's Spirit In The Sky.
Yep this old duck recalls the Electric Prunes well from 1969 ( final year of high school).
Doctor and the Medics version one hopes.
You didn't want to know that.
@Sandemaniac - I'm only familiar with the name HMHB. I must have missed out. Any particular albums you recommend?
@MrsBeaky apologies if I gave the impression I was having a go. I wasn't.
Back in the DHSS is worth a listen as where it all started, but the
references are getting very long in the tooth now.
I'd suggest Achtung Bono and No-one Cares About Your Creative Hub... as good places to start. Though none of the albums are duff.
When I used to do a bit of music, with my acoustic guitar, on Christian CU youth camps I did some of his songs and they went down well. I loved the way he would just take an apposite Bible verse and make up a catchy fun little song for it.
Although I love a lot of BD's music, I am not keen on his Christian albums. His Dear Landlord and Frankie Lee/Judas Priest were more interesting for me.
Lots of niche references there!
I’m not a fan of his voice, but “Must Be Santa” is a riot and essential for every Christmas cabaret I do. Plus the video is such fun!
How would people say that CCM has evolved since that time? I've always had a hard time getting into Christian music because it seems to lack a real sense of a driving beat or an edge to its sound or its lyrics. I can find transgressive, rebellious, and sensual elements in the Christian music of almost any other period in history, but contemporary Christian popular music and worship songs seem so packaged and smoothed out that they feel more like New Age music for "positive vibes" than anything else - and this blandness carries over to just about any genre of contemporary Christian music, whether it is hard rock or hip hop. Does anyone know something relatively recent that might prove me wrong?
How recent does it need to be? There is some stuff—actually, a lot—which is not bland at all, but the stuff put out for Christian radio in recent years has been exactly as you describe, with the whole “safe for the whole family” approach. There’s a bunch of analyses of the whole “watered-down worship song” approach I’ve been running across lately.
The ones I mentioned earlier, especially Steve Taylor and Daniel Amos/Terry Scott Taylor, are definitely different from that, I’m happy to say. I’ve heard good things about early-ish Newsboys (basically the Steve Taylor era in which he was writing their songs, and long before Peter Furter left and Michael Tait (yikes on multiple levels) came on board, basically the 90s) and I need to check them out.
@stonespring Here’s a link to Daniel Amos’ awesome Alarma Chronicles!