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"Justice"

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Comments

  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Must you blame a whole nation for what a single idiot or small team of idiots head decided to do to suck up to you-know-who?

    I don't see people clamoring for this.

    It’s not just in the USA. In the United Kingdom and elsewhere, the right-wing authoritarian loons are gaining popularity and influence through a combination of half-truths and punching down.

    Ridicule is not enough.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    By no means all Americans, of course, but the revelling of so many people in violent death and the cherished entitlement of the people to possess the means of bringing it can be hard to take.

    Oh really? Do tell. Explain to us just how hard it is to deal with so many horrific things, just one of which would have brought down any other president. We don't understand it at all.
  • SipechSipech Shipmate
    I dare say that, if the streaming goes ahead, a fair few folks from the UK will be tuning in for a morbid gawk.
  • Hegseth appears to be trying to push his part of the MAGA cult towards somewhere different than the others. It would not surprise me if he set up a part of the military charged with seeking out the Templars and the holy grail.

    There seems to be still a fairly large number of Americans who have wagered that they will benefit from these crimes, albeit a lot who stand against them.
  • Sipech wrote: »
    I dare say that, if the streaming goes ahead, a fair few folks from the UK will be tuning in for a morbid gawk.

    I hope anyone who does that loudly announces it and is too stupid to think about the inevitable consequences.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Please refrain from generalisations about Americans or large numbers of Americans supporting the far right.

    Dafyd Hell Host
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    I wish I could say I am surprised at this latest horror.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    A huge number of people online in the Wild West days of the internet in the early 00s - mostly younger Gen Xers and Millennials - will have seen videos of executions from Afghanistan and Iraq. Often these were hidden within other videos or snuck into files for downloading from filesharing sites, simply for the purpose of shocking the recipient. There was a lot of "edgy humour" around at the time online regardless of your country of origin (UK teenagers were very much Not exempt from that), and the idea of livestreaming an execution really reminds me much more of very early YouTube (from before Google bought it) and Black Mirror than it does anything specifically American.

    I'm always reminded of the fact that the Saw movie franchise was created in response to the 2003 US invasion of Iraq (yes, really) and it makes me really wonder what art is going to be created as a response to these times.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited October 9
    "Lamb wrote:

    I don't see people clamoring for this.

    I really hope not. It's medieval. 😢

  • PriscillaPriscilla Shipmate
    Tangent - I’ve seen antique lace bobbins with execution dates and names
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    Executions were public in England and Wales until 1868. It wasn't as long ago as you think.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    I also think that calling this medieval is a bit unfair on medieval people (meant lightheartedly @Boogie - I know what you meant)!

    I think this is like a level of Poe's Law that our brains aren't meant to cope with.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited October 9
    I understand that Ms Pike is conscious, but 'angry and confused', as well she might be. Apparently, she's able to walk about a bit, but is shackled to her bed.

    One report said she has pneumonia and a blood clot...

    What next, I wonder?

    If she doesn't die, but makes a reasonable recovery, might it be possible for her sentence to be changed to life imprisonment?
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    Her lawyers want her sentence commuted to life without parole (the other day I heard one of them point out that this would still be a more severe sentence than the one her accomplice received).
  • Ruth wrote: »
    By no means all Americans, of course, but the revelling of so many people in violent death and the cherished entitlement of the people to possess the means of bringing it can be hard to take.

    Oh really? Do tell. Explain to us just how hard it is to deal with so many horrific things, just one of which would have brought down any other president. We don't understand it at all.

    Didn't I say "By no means all Americans"? Our extended family is well over half American and mostly peaceful, liberal Democrats. The savagery that is going on now is something we all have to deal with, and can't. And the fact remains that the Second Amendment continues to exist and has wide support.
  • Her lawyers want her sentence commuted to life without parole (the other day I heard one of them point out that this would still be a more severe sentence than the one her accomplice received).

    This is what I had in mind, although Ms Pike has, IIRC, expressed a wish to die...

    Poor woman. OK, she killed someone, but surely she doesn't deserve the agony she must be going through, no matter how much hatred her victim's family bears towards her. I feel some sympathy for them, too, as there is as yet no closure.
  • I don't think "deserving" is a good place to go right now, especially on this particular crime. I'm not at all convinced that punishment somehow cancels out a crime--surely you just wind up with more people in agony?
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    edited October 10
    Ruth wrote: »
    By no means all Americans, of course, but the revelling of so many people in violent death and the cherished entitlement of the people to possess the means of bringing it can be hard to take.

    Oh really? Do tell. Explain to us just how hard it is to deal with so many horrific things, just one of which would have brought down any other president. We don't understand it at all.

    Didn't I say "By no means all Americans"? Our extended family is well over half American and mostly peaceful, liberal Democrats. The savagery that is going on now is something we all have to deal with, and can't. And the fact remains that the Second Amendment continues to exist and has wide support.

    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with the death penalty. Also, many progressives in the US own and use guns, and want to keep using them while also advocating for better gun laws - Tim Walz is a prominent example. Many Americans only use guns for responsible hunting, and self-defence when in remote/wilderness areas (including self-defence from wildlife - you can't call the cops on a mountain lion). Increasingly, many minority groups including progressive/leftwing ones are arming themselves given threats from the far-right. Personally as a British person, I think that the UK is too restrictive on self-defence items in general and that doesn't make me less progressive.

    The UK public are widely in favour of the death penalty, but not in favour of US-style gun laws. They are entirely different issues.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    As an example - I have a friend from Maine, which is a largely rural part of New England. Lots of true wilderness in a way that the UK just doesn't have. She really enjoys (humanely) hunting with her dad, and was excited to get her gun license, but she in no way "revels in violent death". She and her family always hunt for food and don't waste any of the deer they hunt, and the deer population is very healthy. Her guns and her family's guns are always kept in a secure gun safe and they are very strict about gun safety and responsible usage. She would never use a gun on a human unless it was a literal life or death situation - people who take guns seriously use them as tools when needed rather than as ammosexual posturing accessories.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I'm sure you're right, and North Americans have much more interface with wildlife - both prey and predators - than we do. What haunts me is the woman shot by her toddler who found the gun in her handbag (both were in the shopping trolley). Who takes a gun to the supermarket?
  • I wasn't suggesting the 2nd Amendment was a factor in the death penalty - it clearly isn't. The point is that the individual is entitled to possess the means of violent death and that this is also acceptable to many (not all).
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    I'm sure you're right, and North Americans have much more interface with wildlife - both prey and predators - than we do. What haunts me is the woman shot by her toddler who found the gun in her handbag (both were in the shopping trolley). Who takes a gun to the supermarket?

    I definitely agree that gun safety is a huge issue, and many people campaigning for better gun regulations/safety in the US are gun owners themselves.
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    I wasn't suggesting the 2nd Amendment was a factor in the death penalty - it clearly isn't. The point is that the individual is entitled to possess the means of violent death and that this is also acceptable to many (not all).

    Pretty much anything can be the means of violent death, including our (general our) own hands. People are murdered with all kinds of normal household objects, it doesn't mean that owning those things is somehow indicative of violent tendencies. Owning a gun does not mean that someone "revels in violent death" any more than someone who owns a kitchen knife. Nor does it say anything about their political views.
  • I find this whole topic very distressing, and I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over it. Our generation (mine, anyway) and its leaders had the opportunity and means to leave this world a more civilised place than the one we were born into shortly after the second world war, and we've failed damnably.
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