Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

15354565859103

Comments

  • So: Manu Macron slaps Trump upside the head (figuratively speaking, obviously) and Trump goes off in a sulk and refuses to attend the Armistice ceremony, supposedly because it is raining and his helicopter can’t take off, and he wouldn’t dream of inconveniencing the Parisians by blocking all the roads.

    This is BS. Trump couldn’t care less about inconveniencing us. Last time he came to Paris he turned up in the middle of the rush hour on a weekday morning and gridlocked the entire city. I remember it well because I was on a bus trying to get to work.

    Never was that baby blimp more appropriate.
  • Expect a Twitter storm tonight. Krysten Sinema, a Democrat, has just been declared the winner in the race for Senator in Arizona. She will be the first woman in the state's 106-year-old history to take a seat on the floor of the U.S. Senate. (Trump was just here a few weeks ago holding a campaign rally for her opponent.)
    :smile:
  • edited November 2018
    trumpy mustn't know where his Slovenian wife is from. I wonder what their conversations are like. Come to think of it, don't want to know.

    Trump Confused the Baltics With Balkans and accused the leaders of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia of starting the Yugoslavia wars. It can get stupider. And is, and will.

    This version at the time, is ridiculous.
    More than an event involving four heads of state, Donald Trump’s press conference with the three Baltic leaders on Tuesday resembled a concert by a hastily assembled Motown covers band.

    Trump, the lead singer, dominated the stage, singing familiar songs about everything from Vladimir Putin and Nato to Hillary Clinton’s love of windmills.

    :barf:
  • I think after this past week I need to take a self-imposed ban on listening to or reading Trump-related news. Sometimes it overwhelms, and disappoints/frustrates/angers me beyond a coping level.
  • Climacus wrote: »
    I think after this past week I need to take a self-imposed ban on listening to or reading Trump-related news. Sometimes it overwhelms, and disappoints/frustrates/angers me beyond a coping level.

    I do that as much as I can - radio and TV are turned over/off immediately his face or voice come on. I read articles but stop as soon as anger starts to kick in.

  • Boogie wrote: »
    Climacus wrote: »
    I think after this past week I need to take a self-imposed ban on listening to or reading Trump-related news. Sometimes it overwhelms, and disappoints/frustrates/angers me beyond a coping level.

    I do that as much as I can - radio and TV are turned over/off immediately his face or voice come on. I read articles but stop as soon as anger starts to kick in.

    That is exactly me. This thread keeps me up to date in a cope-able way.
  • I can take it, and for a long time. I try to filter out all the rubbish that the media comes out with. This story about Trump dodging an event he went to Europe to attend is an example. I only need to see that once. There will be shit about it all over the shop for a week.

    When it gets close to critical dates, like the recent election, I get really wobbly.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    I doubt whether Trump's stupidity over Baltic/Balkans will disturb the loyalists. So far as European leaders are concerned, my guess is that they have given up on getting any sense or consistency out of him, seeing him as someone whose prejudices, rudeness and ignorance are to be endured.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I doubt whether Trump's stupidity over Baltic/Balkans will disturb the loyalists. So far as European leaders are concerned, my guess is that they have given up on getting any sense or consistency out of him, seeing him as someone whose prejudices, rudeness and ignorance are to be endured.

    His prejudices, rudeness and ignorance are his main plus points to his loyalists.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Contributing to this effect is the fact that few of these 'loyalists' -- products of the US public educational system -- would be able even to confuse the Baltic nations with the Balkans. They will never have heard of either.

    Meanwhile, constantly assured by their Faux News, they do grasp that what goes on in the US is the Only Thing That Matters (besides celebrity gossip) and that all other nations on earth are inferior, backward, wannabe little Americas inhabited by assorted substandard knock-offs of the human species who unaccountably refuse to speak American English or act like Real Americans in their dress, manners, or customs.
  • Yes, we have a Trump deletion operation in force. Occasionally, something particularly bizarre seeps through, but too much, and I start feeling ill.
  • During the Cold War analysts engaged in "Kremlinolgy", trying to divine the motives and likely policies of the Soviet leadership from the smallest of clues. Who is standing with whom at the platform of the Mayday Parade? Does the fact that someone wasn't mentioned in a public statement mean that they're in eclipse, or have been purged? Was the canceling of a visit by a high official politically significant, or did he just have the flu that week? As Churchill famously put it, Soviet intentions were "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma", forcing analysts to theorize on the basis of very little data.

    In this spirit, latter-day Kremlinologists (in multiple senses of the term) have to wonder what's up with Trump this week. He cancels a scheduled appearance in France on an obviously flimsy pretext, upon his return to the States does nothing for Veterans' Day (November 12, the nearest Monday to November 11), and has announced he won't be attending a pair of important Asian summits. At some point you have to start suspecting something is up. Is he sick? Has dementia progressed to a degree it can no longer be concealed at public events? Just a petulant tantrum? Aside from the bare facts of Trump's public schedule the White House seems to be on information lockdown at the moment.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    I'm not sure we need to ask whether Dear Leader is sick. We all know he is, in one or another interpretation of that term. The real question is, can he now either be (A) quarantined or (B) twenty-fifth-amendmented?

    Maybe the fast food cheeseburgers and chocolate cake with 2 scoops are doing the job Steyer wants to set in motion.

    My guess is that Ivanka will try adjusting the medications first.
  • alienfromzogalienfromzog Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    Crœsos wrote: »
    During the Cold War analysts engaged in "Kremlinolgy", trying to divine the motives and likely policies of the Soviet leadership from the smallest of clues. Who is standing with whom at the platform of the Mayday Parade? Does the fact that someone wasn't mentioned in a public statement mean that they're in eclipse, or have been purged? Was the canceling of a visit by a high official politically significant, or did he just have the flu that week? As Churchill famously put it, Soviet intentions were "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma", forcing analysts to theorize on the basis of very little data.

    In this spirit, latter-day Kremlinologists (in multiple senses of the term) have to wonder what's up with Trump this week. He cancels a scheduled appearance in France on an obviously flimsy pretext, upon his return to the States does nothing for Veterans' Day (November 12, the nearest Monday to November 11), and has announced he won't be attending a pair of important Asian summits. At some point you have to start suspecting something is up. Is he sick? Has dementia progressed to a degree it can no longer be concealed at public events? Just a petulant tantrum? Aside from the bare facts of Trump's public schedule the White House seems to be on information lockdown at the moment.

    Here's a theory. And as you intimate, it's based on very flimsy data.

    Trump's behaviour has changed subtly since the mid terms. This is evident in a few ways: not mentioning the caravan for one. Most notably in the sacking of Sessions. Something he was clearly itching to do for a while...

    So I interpret this as 2 connected things: 1) He was playing the politics before the elections: motivate his base, try not to motivate the other side. (To a significant extent, the midterms were about turnout and thus motivation to vote). 2) He IS worried by Democratic control of the House.

    YMMV (A lot!)

    AFZ
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited November 2018
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Has dementia progressed to a degree it can no longer be concealed at public events?
    If there's any dementia there other than in his opponents' dreams, it's presently more than compensated for by his sheer cunning. It still strikes me that there's an able mind at work in there - just in unorthodox ways, and ones I don't endorse.

    ETA: I'm sure the absence in France was a calculated snub to Macron, for instance. Not the product of dementia by any stretch.
  • And now Melina Trump wants hubby to fire the Secretary of Homeland Security, Kiertsen Nielson because of a personality class. If she goes, look for John Kelly to resign. as chief of Staff.

    Ever hear of Trey Glenn? He is the Southeastern Region Administrator for the EPA. Why is he important? Before he became the regional administrator of the EPA, he was administrator for the Alabama Environmental Quality Board, As the administrator, he arranged for a "Poop Train" from New York City to deliver 10 million gallons of human excrement to be delivered to a landfill in Alabama. But, the deal of it is, the landfill did not have the proper permits to receive human waste (which is something for Alabama). So this train has been going from place to place through Alabama and people have said the stench is horrible.

    Turns out Mr, Glenn has been referred for trail because he was on the take from the company that owns the landfill. He is being charged with corruption.

    Stor

    You just cannot make this up. I think it says a lot about the tRump administration. (something about high heaven).

  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    You just cannot make this shit up.
    Fixed that for you.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Self interest amongst elected representatives makes them fearful of offending their voter base. 80% of which think Trump is doing a good job. That is the reality behind their silence.

    It changes only when the other electors show he is no longer a winner. Then self-interest switches. Trump is seen to be a liability. Then the knives come out.

    Does this show a lack of integrity? Moral malleability? Sure it does.

    Rely on it.
  • What's worse than critics comparing you to Hitler? Supporters comparing you to Hitler.
    A man shouted a pro-Nazi and pro-Trump salute during a performance of “Fiddler on the Roof” at Baltimore’s Hippodrome Theatre on Wednesday night.

    Audience member Rich Scherr said the outburst during intermission prompted fears that it was the beginning of a shooting. The man, who had been seated in the balcony, began shouting “Heil Hitler, Heil Trump.” Immediately after that, “People started running,” Scherr said. “I’ll be honest, I was waiting to hear a gunshot. I thought, ‘Here we go.’”

    Police were called and security escorted the man out a few minutes later, a police spokeswoman said, and the show continued.

    It seems past time for Republicans to start examining why racists seem so at home in their party. Assuming, of course, that the Republican party considers being the natural political home of American white supremacists to be a problem rather than an asset.
  • Frack. :(
  • Speaking of loud and fascist-curious, what's up with the Fox News Twitter feed? Specifically it's last post was a week ago. Maybe there hasn't been any news (or at least "Fox News") since then?

    This seems to match up with a lot of other pieces of the right wing propaganda Twitterverse going silent (or disappearing) at the same time.
  • A question: We usually hear that Donald trump is a aberration and that he isn't what America is. And that the Republican party has a long and noble history of goodness and what it is doing with religious fundamentalism, singular focus on nationalism and pregnancy. Someone has addressed this differently. What if Donald Trump is what America is all about? Understanding that the source (Al Jazeera) means that the audience is international for this. Is it true? and whether true or not, shall the world hold it as factual?

    The startling history (to me) of the other political party (democrats) and their clear racism discussed elsewhere on this Ship really got me upset: From "press freedom and terrible person". It appears that an elite group of graspers merely express themselves a little differently, but are from the same contaminated soil.
  • What if Donald Trump is what America is all about? Understanding that the source (Al Jazeera) means that the audience is international for this. Is it true? and whether true or not, shall the world hold it as factual?

    The question of "What is America all about?" is a complex one, and there are at least three traditions competing to answer that question.

    The first is what could be called the New England tradition. America and Americans are building a Shining City on a Hill and anyone can come join as long as they agree to accept certain intellectual precepts. A lot of American ideas about equality and being a nation of immigrants derive from this tradition.

    The second could be referred to as the Virginia tradition, which is a kind of strange blend of libertarianism and aristocracy, focusing on liberty as the protection of private property and laissez-faire capitalism. This tradition emphasizes limited government and checks and balances.

    The third might named the Kentucky tradition, a sort of blood and soil nativism emphasizing tradition, family, and hierarchy, often racial hierarchy. Trump and his followers seem to be most firmly embedded in this particular tradition.

    These descriptors are not (as far as I know) in common use and refer to the regions where the intellectual background of the traditions developed in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, not necessarily where they're found today. So yes, Trump and his followers are firmly within the traditional American mainstream as it has historically existed. But no, they're not what America is all about.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    What if Donald Trump is what America is all about? Understanding that the source (Al Jazeera) means that the audience is international for this. Is it true? and whether true or not, shall the world hold it as factual?

    The question of "What is America all about?" is a complex one, and there are at least three traditions competing to answer that question.

    The first is what could be called the New England tradition. America and Americans are building a Shining City on a Hill and anyone can come join as long as they agree to accept certain intellectual precepts. A lot of American ideas about equality and being a nation of immigrants derive from this tradition.

    The second could be referred to as the Virginia tradition, which is a kind of strange blend of libertarianism and aristocracy, focusing on liberty as the protection of private property and laissez-faire capitalism. This tradition emphasizes limited government and checks and balances.

    The third might named the Kentucky tradition, a sort of blood and soil nativism emphasizing tradition, family, and hierarchy, often racial hierarchy. Trump and his followers seem to be most firmly embedded in this particular tradition.

    These descriptors are not (as far as I know) in common use and refer to the regions where the intellectual background of the traditions developed in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, not necessarily where they're found today. So yes, Trump and his followers are firmly within the traditional American mainstream as it has historically existed. But no, they're not what America is all about.

    Maybe the struggles of African-Americans and their descendants for liberation and equality and of Native Americans for autonomy and outright survival can be seen as what the United States is all about just as much as any founding principle of European colonists or the Enlightenment-informed white male land-and-slave-owning aristocrats who drafted our founding documents.

    The Kentucky tradition you cite above was not something the Founding Fathers (as far as I know) belonged to - although the Founding Fathers were certainly in favor of racial hierarchy, despite some of their lofty language! It was something that was incorporated into the political mainstream through the movement led by Andrew Jackson (who, coincidentally, Trump admires). As unsavory as some of its elements were/are, it was this tradition that expanded the right to vote from the propertied elite to most or all white men - which is something the aristocratic Founding Fathers would likely have thought of as a mob rule that would lead to dictatorship and the destruction of the Republic.

    But as for the liberation of the oppressed people who were originally here and those who were brought here against their will - the question is whether those movements are (or can be) part of Americanness or if they are struggles to free people from an Americanness that is inherently about subjugating them. I'm hoping it's the former!
  • One of my favourite lines from Tony Kushner's Angels in America:
    You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean.
    In the play, Roy Cohn is the occupant of 1013, dying of AIDSliver cancer.

    Frankly, I'm sick and tired of people pretending colonialism and slavery aren't "American". They were, long before apple pie and baseball came along, and they're the root causes of the worst poverty and injustices in the USA.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    Contributing to this effect is the fact that few of these 'loyalists' -- products of the US public educational system -- would be able even to confuse the Baltic nations with the Balkans. They will never have heard of either.

    Meanwhile, constantly assured by their Faux News, they do grasp that what goes on in the US is the Only Thing That Matters (besides celebrity gossip) and that all other nations on earth are inferior, backward, wannabe little Americas inhabited by assorted substandard knock-offs of the human species who unaccountably refuse to speak American English or act like Real Americans in their dress, manners, or customs.

    I think both locations feature in the Call of Duty series :wink:
  • SM I'm pretty sure you don't mean shipmates are making that mistake.

    I have read a book which splits America into tribes in a very similar division to that outlined by @Crœsos. There are more tribes than three though - maybe 5 or 6. I found the book interesting but not persuasive in part because the racial divisions in this country were deemed irrelevant by the writer. I just couldn't get past that. I can't see how race can be excluded from such an analysis, but it probably breaks some analytical rule in sociology that I just don't understand. I wish I could remember the name of the book to refer you but it is at home.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    mousethief wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    You just cannot make this shit up.
    Fixed that for you.

    I did not use that term. Do not put it in my mouth.
  • It's interesting
    But as for the liberation of the oppressed people who were originally here and those who were brought here against their will - the question is whether those movements are (or can be) part of Americanness or if they are struggles to free people from an Americanness that is inherently about subjugating them. I'm hoping it's the former!
    There is work required with that. The first part of which is apologising and stating that you want things different. That sort of happenned when I was a young person and we watched the one TV channel there was in those days, when people marched for civil rights, and the riots, and the dogs in George Wallace's Alabama. Stupidly I guess I thought a half century later things had improved. And maybe they have in some respects, only to twist, tilt and morph into something else. The beast doesn't die.

    Such statements then have to be followed by actions. Current actions look like a continuation and negation of anything apologetic. This is longer than the current president. And you don't get there without doing the work. I'm thinking if you want "the former" that time is probably running out, the thing either goes full white nationalist or there's a USSR-like disintegration with some of your states banding together and rejecting others. Civil war 2, kind of like finishing the unfinished of the first one, akin to WW1 and WW2. But maybe I'm reading too much apocalyptic stuff.
  • I am British so should not care too much about Trump, but I do! For the last two years since he was elected, he has caused me nightmares. I cannot believe he is still in the White House. His lies are gross and multiple and his fellow Republicans don't seem to care. Don't any of them have the b***s to stand up to him? But the rest of the world should care because of what he is doing about Iran, climate change, women's issues etc. etc. He only poodles up to leaders like Kim and Putin and is damning of his allies. What is that all about? Brexit and the shambolic attitude of the Government also causes me nightmares, but nothing like Trump and his ilk.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    SM I'm pretty sure you don't mean shipmates are making that mistake.

    I have read a book which splits America into tribes in a very similar division to that outlined by @Crœsos. There are more tribes than three though - maybe 5 or 6. I found the book interesting but not persuasive in part because the racial divisions in this country were deemed irrelevant by the writer. I just couldn't get past that. I can't see how race can be excluded from such an analysis, but it probably breaks some analytical rule in sociology that I just don't understand. I wish I could remember the name of the book to refer you but it is at home.

    The truth is,
    It's interesting
    But as for the liberation of the oppressed people who were originally here and those who were brought here against their will - the question is whether those movements are (or can be) part of Americanness or if they are struggles to free people from an Americanness that is inherently about subjugating them. I'm hoping it's the former!
    There is work required with that. The first part of which is apologising and stating that you want things different. That sort of happenned when I was a young person and we watched the one TV channel there was in those days, when people marched for civil rights, and the riots, and the dogs in George Wallace's Alabama. Stupidly I guess I thought a half century later things had improved. And maybe they have in some respects, only to twist, tilt and morph into something else. The beast doesn't die.

    Such statements then have to be followed by actions. Current actions look like a continuation and negation of anything apologetic. This is longer than the current president. And you don't get there without doing the work. I'm thinking if you want "the former" that time is probably running out, the thing either goes full white nationalist or there's a USSR-like disintegration with some of your states banding together and rejecting others. Civil war 2, kind of like finishing the unfinished of the first one, akin to WW1 and WW2. But maybe I'm reading too much apocalyptic stuff.

    Here are examples of when the US government has officially apologized for terrible things it has done in its past, although it is not nearly enough and does not include its genocidal treatment of Native Americans (!). We also need to have some form of reparations for the legacy of slavery and genocide, even if it is not called reparations. I am not talking about a check written to every African American or Native American, but rather a huge increase in antipoverty, employment, affordable housing, education, public health, substance abuse treatment, criminal justice reform, drug decriminalization, etc., directed at the country as a whole but with an emphasis on majority-African-American neighborhoods and Native American populations - coupled with a huge increase in support for scholarships for African American and Native American students.

    All of that said, I am worried that maybe this country is founded on white supremacy and that little can be done about it other than (nonviolently) abolish the whole system and start over. I worry, though, that whatever replacement there is would have less rule of law, fewer protections for dissidents and the press - and even if it is based on a push for racial equality, it might inspire a backlash that would lead to a fascist state that makes Trump look progressive in comparison. But my opinion is clouded by the tremendous amount of racial, gender, and class privilege that I enjoy, so I'm not so sure that I'm able to speak for the oppressed in terms of whether the American project can be redeemed or not.
  • For non-American shipmates, this podcast from the Australian Radio National is a history of the left in America. I have listened to part 1, and part 2 is published on Sunday I believe.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    Lock Ivanka up?

    Not sure about whether this story has 'legs' but there is a certain irony in play.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    Barnabas62 wrote: »

    Your lips to God's ears.
  • Except that the Democrats cannot push for that without being branded as hypocrites. The proper response by Democrats is to shrug and say "we said it wasn't a big deal when Clinton did it; the FBI agreed. It is still not a big deal with Ivanka. She was careless or thoughtless, but there is no criminal action here." That would be consistent and honorable. Then, the next time a Republican tries to bring up the Clinton thing, the Democrat can say "what about Ivanka?" with a clear conscience. But a Dem cannot demand action against Ivanka while decrying action against Clinton.

    But that won't happen. I predict, instead, both sides will start pointing at each other yelling "Hypocrisy!"--and both be right. Because they are both being politicians and therefore hypocritic oafs.
  • Remember during the 2008 Presidential election when the idiot governor of Alaska, and Republican Vice Presidential candidate, was using a Yahoo! account for state business? Her "secret questions" were things like the high school she attended, making it pretty easy for a college kid to get into her account.

    But Hillary! Her emails! Lock her up!
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited November 2018
    (Edited out, in unfinished thought got posted by accident)
  • In all this, I seemed to have forgotten for a moment that the leader of the most powerful nation on earth (TM) appointed his daughter as a senior adviser. I tried a bit of Googling to see when that happened last in the UK, but all I could find was outrage about MPs paying relatives to run their constituency offices...

  • In all this, I seemed to have forgotten for a moment that the leader of the most powerful nation on earth (TM) appointed his daughter as a senior adviser. I tried a bit of Googling to see when that happened last in the UK, but all I could find was outrage about MPs paying relatives to run their constituency offices...

    But Trump considers himself the equivalent of a monarch, not a prime minister. So he probably would compare this with Her Majesty having Prince Charles taking over some of her responsibilities and public appearances.
  • If what Clinton did was so awful, then Ivanka should have known better. If what Clinton did wasn't so bad, Ivanka still should have known better.
  • In all this, I seemed to have forgotten for a moment that the leader of the most powerful nation on earth (TM) appointed his daughter as a senior adviser. I tried a bit of Googling to see when that happened last in the UK, but all I could find was outrage about MPs paying relatives to run their constituency offices...

    In all fairness, JFK appointed his brother to be Attorney General. But yes, the Trump administration has nepotism at a whole other level.
  • In all fairness, JFK appointed his brother to be Attorney General. But yes, the Trump administration has nepotism at a whole other level.
    And if I recall various rules were created to prevent that kind of nepotism happening again.
  • And it's better for the appointee not to be related, for their own good. Bobby (RFK) blamed himself for JFK's death, because he thought the people he was after might have killed JFK in retribution.

  • And then they killed him. :(
  • Re Ivanka as senior advisor:

    I don't approve of the appointment. But she's long been his advisor, long before he took office. Maybe it's better that she has at least some visibility (and hopefully accountability) so people have an inkling of what's going on?
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Re Ivanka as senior advisor:

    I don't approve of the appointment. But she's long been his advisor, long before he took office. Maybe it's better that she has at least some visibility (and hopefully accountability) so people have an inkling of what's going on?

    Advisor? Babysitter, maybe. I suspect her time is spent managing his tantrums, distracting him from his more egregious impulses, getting him to take his meds, having him breathe into a paper bag, whatever . . .

  • Well, in the past, he said that she is the one who nudges him to do right things. If that's true, I hate to think of all the things he might have done.
    (eep)

    And I think she may have been involved in some of his business dealings.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    I agree with Hedgehog. The elevation of 'lock her up' to a baying crowd slogan was despicable. It should not be copied.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I agree with Hedgehog. The elevation of 'lock her up' to a baying crowd slogan was despicable. It should not be copied.

    Absolutely. 100%.

    But let us take a moment to marvel at the breathtaking arrogance of Ivanka.

    Having successfully used lock her up to stir up the mob, the Trumps go on to do something similar in the belief that it's ok if they do it.

    Of course the real problem is that Ms Trump's confidence is not misplaced.

    AFZ
  • Disagree. If it is basically war, you do whatever is required to win. There is no going "they go low, you go high". Nope, you get them on the ground and kick the living daylights out of them.

    News conferences need to ask if lock her up applies to the daughter he wanted to date. Whose qualifications for being his advisor was running a failed clothing line.
Sign In or Register to comment.