What did you sing at church today?

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  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    Must admit the first two hymns were a little unusual for this service. It is the most traditional of our three Sunday services, the only one where clergy robe and we stand for the gospel. Any hymn post Wesley is considered "modern" for this service!
  • Alan29 wrote: »
    Darda wrote: »
    Three hymns at our early communion service this morning

    I Cannot Tell / LONDONDERRY AIR
    Will You Come and Follow Me (The Summons)* / KELVINGROVE
    Take My Life and Let It Be / HENDON

    * Not very often that we get a John Bell hymn at our place

    The London Derriere is a bit of a stretch for an early service.

    It's a bit of a stretch for any service IMHO...
    :flushed:
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    edited February 2023
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Darda wrote: »
    Three hymns at our early communion service this morning

    I Cannot Tell / LONDONDERRY AIR
    Will You Come and Follow Me (The Summons)* / KELVINGROVE
    Take My Life and Let It Be / HENDON

    * Not very often that we get a John Bell hymn at our place

    The London Derriere is a bit of a stretch for an early service.

    It's a bit of a stretch for any service IMHO...
    :flushed:
               shep———
    "or why as          herds..."
    

    Indeed.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 2023
    Be still, for the presence of the Lord is an acquired taste (I like it muchly, but YMMV), though it may have been over-exposed.

    Here is a rather odd rendering - sung by a Romanian lady (in English!), with accompaniment by a Dutch organist, and filmed in a Lutheran church in Romania...the church looks rather shabby, but apparently is still in use, at least occasionally:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9nKEiHpTLE
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Darda wrote: »
    Three hymns at our early communion service this morning

    I Cannot Tell / LONDONDERRY AIR
    Will You Come and Follow Me (The Summons)* / KELVINGROVE
    Take My Life and Let It Be / HENDON

    * Not very often that we get a John Bell hymn at our place

    The London Derriere is a bit of a stretch for an early service.

    It's a bit of a stretch for any service IMHO...
    :flushed:

    My thoughts exactly! :mrgreen:
  • “O worship the King” - Hanover.
    “Be still, for the presence of the Lord”.
    “At your feet we fall” (Dave Bilbrough).
    “How good, Lord, to be here!” - Venice.
    “We have come at Christ’s own bidding” - Nettleton.
    “Jesus, on the mountain peak” - St Albinus.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited February 2023
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Turning the world upside down. (I will have to scrub my hands with bleach after playing that.)
    This one was unfamiliar to me; as far as I can tell it doesn’t appear in any North American hymnals. After listening to it on YouTube, I find myself regretting that I didn't let it remain unfamiliar.

    And @Piglet, the correct tune for “God of Grace and God of Glory” is CWM RHONDDA, surely. It’s the only tune I’ve every heard it sung to.
    Today, we had:

    “Immortal, Invisible, God Only Wise”/ST. DENIO
    “Blest Be the Tie that Binds”/DENNIS
    “At the Name of Jesus”/KING’S WESTON
    “Swiftly Pass the Clouds of Glory”/GENEVA

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »

    And @Piglet, the correct tune for “God of Grace and God of Glory” is CWM RHONDDA, surely. It’s the only tune I’ve every heard it sung to.
    I'd go with "Rhuddlan", saving "Cwm Rhondda" for you-know-what.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »

    And @Piglet, the correct tune for “God of Grace and God of Glory” is CWM RHONDDA, surely. It’s the only tune I’ve every heard it sung to.
    I'd go with "Rhuddlan", saving "Cwm Rhondda" for you-know-what.
    Here, at least in my experience, both GoGaGoG and you-know-what are firmly tied to CWM RHONDDA.

  • Last Sunday After the Epiphany

    O wondrous type! O vision fair (Wareham)
    Alleluia, song of gladness (Oriel)
    O Light of Light, Love given birth (Elmhurst)
    Lead us, heavenly Father, lead us (Dulce carmen)

    Choral:
    Charles Wood: Missa Portae honoris in F
    George Walker: O Praise the Lord (1975)
    David Hurd: Creating God, your fingers trace (1986)
    William Boyce: Te Deum in C
  • For Transfiguration Sunday. Our concluding hymn

    These are the Days of Elijah
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited February 2023
    Be still, for the presence of the Lord is an acquired taste (I like it muchly, but YMMV), though it may have been over-exposed.

    It's more where I was exposed to it. It was used a lot for those times in Charismatic services where people were doing weird stuff and people were getting rather emotional and lots of quivering hands were held over people while people prayed in tongues and freaky goings on like that that make me shudder still today.

    It's adoption into the more mainstream church seems a bit strange. I sit there thinking "you don’t know what that third verse is about, do you?" - granted for values of "about" that mean "was taken to be about when I was introduced to this song".

    Plus it's in Unison which makes me wonder what they think a choir is for. But that's a failing of many modern hymns from any number of traditions.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Be still, for the presence of the Lord is an acquired taste (I like it muchly, but YMMV), though it may have been over-exposed.

    It's more where I was exposed to it. It was used a lot for those times in Charismatic services where people were doing weird stuff and people were getting rather emotional and lots of quivering hands were held over people while people prayed in tongues and freaky goings on like that that make me shudder still today.

    It's adoption into the more mainstream church seems a bit strange. I sit there thinking "you don’t know what that third verse is about, do you?" - granted for values of "about" that mean "was taken to be about when I was introduced to this song".

    Plus it's in Unison which makes me wonder what they think a choir is for. But that's a failing of many modern hymns from any number of traditions.

    We use it at confirmations and at services where the sick are anointed.
    As choirs ...... I have "views" about them.
  • Which, of course, we're now agog to hear!
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    edited February 2023
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Be still, for the presence of the Lord is an acquired taste (I like it muchly, but YMMV), though it may have been over-exposed.

    It's more where I was exposed to it. It was used a lot for those times in Charismatic services where people were doing weird stuff and people were getting rather emotional and lots of quivering hands were held over people while people prayed in tongues and freaky goings on like that that make me shudder still today.

    It's adoption into the more mainstream church seems a bit strange. I sit there thinking "you don’t know what that third verse is about, do you?" - granted for values of "about" that mean "was taken to be about when I was introduced to this song".

    Plus it's in Unison which makes me wonder what they think a choir is for. But that's a failing of many modern hymns from any number of traditions.

    In my experience Be still is a communion hymn. The third verse is obviously entirely about the epiclesis invoking the Holy Spirit, and the power of God at work in the Sacrament. "In faith receive from him" is clearly echoing Cranmer: "Draw near with faith, and take this Holy Sacrament..." It's hardly our fault if the charismatics misunderstood it. ;)

    As for choirs, the primary function is having someone(s) who know when to come in, can keep the rhythm and pay some vague attention to dynamics with a view to encouraging the congregation to sing, y'know, at all. Harmonies are an optional extra.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Plus it's in Unison which makes me wonder what they think a choir is for. But that's a failing of many modern hymns from any number of traditions.
    When it comes to hymns, a choir is for leading the congregation’s singing. I never understand the idea that unison hymns are somehow a “failing,” and I say that as one who’s sung in a church choir for at least 50 years. If that’s the case, then Gregorian chant was one big fail. Even Vaughan Williams wrote hymns to be sung in unison (though he did provide for one verse of SINE NOMINE to be sung in parts).

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Be still, for the presence of the Lord is an acquired taste (I like it muchly, but YMMV), though it may have been over-exposed.

    It's more where I was exposed to it. It was used a lot for those times in Charismatic services where people were doing weird stuff and people were getting rather emotional and lots of quivering hands were held over people while people prayed in tongues and freaky goings on like that that make me shudder still today.

    It's adoption into the more mainstream church seems a bit strange. I sit there thinking "you don’t know what that third verse is about, do you?" - granted for values of "about" that mean "was taken to be about when I was introduced to this song".

    Plus it's in Unison which makes me wonder what they think a choir is for. But that's a failing of many modern hymns from any number of traditions.

    In my experience Be still is a communion hymn. The third verse is obviously entirely about the epiclesis invoking the Holy Spirit, and the power of God at work in the Sacrament. "In faith receive from him" is clearly echoing Cranmer: "Draw near with faith, and take this Holy Sacrament..." It's hardly our fault if the charismatics misunderstood it. ;)
    <snip>

    Yes, and I think this is why it is so popular (usually as a Communion hymn, or at Benediction) at the higher end of the candle.

  • Which, of course, we're now agog to hear!

    Lets just say that if I want to hear a choir, I would rather go somewhere with trained singers and a conductor who knows what they are doing.
    Most parish choirs give me no joy at all and certainly don't engender in me a prayerful state of mind.
    In addition, I draw a pretty sharp line between being a part of communal worship and being a member of an audience.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited February 2023
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Which, of course, we're now agog to hear!

    Lets just say that if I want to hear a choir, I would rather go somewhere with trained singers and a conductor who knows what they are doing.
    Most parish choirs give me no joy at all and certainly don't engender in me a prayerful state of mind.
    In addition, I draw a pretty sharp line between being a part of communal worship and being a member of an audience.

    What about parish choirs that do have trained singers (or at least able singers led by a musical director who has high standards) and said musical director?

    I don't think the line between being part of communal worship and a member of an audience can be quite as sharp as you draw it - or at least drawn where you might. During the Introit or Anthem are you audience or part of communal worship but not one whose role is singing - that role belonging to the choir? Is that different to your largely silent role during the readings, the intercessions or the consecration?
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Which, of course, we're now agog to hear!

    Lets just say that if I want to hear a choir, I would rather go somewhere with trained singers and a conductor who knows what they are doing.
    Most parish choirs give me no joy at all and certainly don't engender in me a prayerful state of mind.
    In addition, I draw a pretty sharp line between being a part of communal worship and being a member of an audience.

    What about parish choirs that do have trained singers (or at least able singers led by a musical director who has high standards) and said musical director?

    I don't think the line between being part of communal worship and a member of an audience can be quite as sharp as you draw it - or at least drawn where you might. During the Introit or Anthem are you audience or part of communal worship but not one whose role is singing - that role belonging to the choir? Is that different to your largely silent role during the readings, the intercessions or the consecration?

    I take the point about good parish choirs, but they are very rare.
    As to choir items, it depends on whether they are singing something that properly belongs to the congregation. Having a choir sing during the communion procession when the congregation is busy is one thing, singing the gloria or sanctus on the other hand ......
  • Alan29 wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Which, of course, we're now agog to hear!

    Lets just say that if I want to hear a choir, I would rather go somewhere with trained singers and a conductor who knows what they are doing.
    Most parish choirs give me no joy at all and certainly don't engender in me a prayerful state of mind.
    In addition, I draw a pretty sharp line between being a part of communal worship and being a member of an audience.

    What about parish choirs that do have trained singers (or at least able singers led by a musical director who has high standards) and said musical director?

    I don't think the line between being part of communal worship and a member of an audience can be quite as sharp as you draw it - or at least drawn where you might. During the Introit or Anthem are you audience or part of communal worship but not one whose role is singing - that role belonging to the choir? Is that different to your largely silent role during the readings, the intercessions or the consecration?

    I take the point about good parish choirs, but they are very rare.
    This may well be a Pond Difference, but they are not rare at all in my experience. Though I’ll admit that in my corner of the world, good choirs are not as common in Catholic churches as they are in mainline Protestant or Baptist churches (at least where they haven’t been replaced by a praise band).

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Which, of course, we're now agog to hear!

    Lets just say that if I want to hear a choir, I would rather go somewhere with trained singers and a conductor who knows what they are doing.
    Most parish choirs give me no joy at all and certainly don't engender in me a prayerful state of mind.
    In addition, I draw a pretty sharp line between being a part of communal worship and being a member of an audience.

    What about parish choirs that do have trained singers (or at least able singers led by a musical director who has high standards) and said musical director?

    I don't think the line between being part of communal worship and a member of an audience can be quite as sharp as you draw it - or at least drawn where you might. During the Introit or Anthem are you audience or part of communal worship but not one whose role is singing - that role belonging to the choir? Is that different to your largely silent role during the readings, the intercessions or the consecration?

    I take the point about good parish choirs, but they are very rare.
    This may well be a Pond Difference, but they are not rare at all in my experience. Though I’ll admit that in my corner of the world, good choirs are not as common in Catholic churches as they are in mainline Protestant or Baptist churches (at least where they haven’t been replaced by a praise band).

    For a good choir you either need a critical mass of people such that you have enough competent singers or you have to have a really committed musical director who will run the choir as an entity in itself beyond its role in the worshipping life of the church. I suspect US churches are more likely to be in the former position than UK churches as the US tends towards much larger average congregations than the UK.
  • For a good choir you either need a critical mass of people such that you have enough competent singers or you have to have a really committed musical director who will run the choir as an entity in itself beyond its role in the worshipping life of the church.
    The latter—a choir as an entity in itself beyond its role in the worshipping life of the church—is very rare in these parts, in my experience.

    I suspect US churches are more likely to be in the former position than UK churches as the US tends towards much larger average congregations than the UK.
    Yes, that’s part of why I said it might be a Pond Difference. And I’m not just in the US; I’m in the Bible Belt.

    I think there may also be cultural differences, in that a decent music program is traditionally a pretty standard expectation among mainline Protestant churches where I am, except in the smallest congregations.

  • Another Pond difference is the money that congregations have available for salaries for musicians.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited February 2023
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Another Pond difference is the money that congregations have available for salaries for musicians.
    Yes, which is connected to the size of the congregation and the general expectation of a music program. There’s (traditionally) little disagreement that the music program is a standard and necessary part of the church’s budget.

    Most church musicians, at least in my experiences, have part-time positions, though large churches may have a full-time music person (perhaps with other part-time musicians). The part-time musicians are often teachers or have another full-time or part-time job, or are in a position where part-time is all they want.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Another Pond difference is the money that congregations have available for salaries for musicians.
    Yes, which is connected to the size of the congregation and the general expectation of a music program. There’s (traditionally) little disagreement that the music program is a standard and necessary part of the church’s budget.

    Most church musicians, at least in my experiences, have part-time positions, though large churches may have a full-time music person (perhaps with other part-time musicians). The part-time musicians are often teachers or have another full-time or part-time job, or are in a position where part-time is all they want.

    Outside of the Director of Music/Organist, it would be unusual for church musicians to be paid over here. Cathedrals might be a bit different, especially the old ones. Smaller churches are unlikely to pay any musicians, I'd think, apart from for weddings and funerals.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited February 2023
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Another Pond difference is the money that congregations have available for salaries for musicians.
    Yes, which is connected to the size of the congregation and the general expectation of a music program. There’s (traditionally) little disagreement that the music program is a standard and necessary part of the church’s budget.

    Most church musicians, at least in my experiences, have part-time positions, though large churches may have a full-time music person (perhaps with other part-time musicians). The part-time musicians are often teachers or have another full-time or part-time job, or are in a position where part-time is all they want.

    Outside of the Director of Music/Organist, it would be unusual for church musicians to be paid over here.
    Same here usually. (Music director and choir director are generally functionally synonymous here, and that person is often also the organist/pianist.)

    That said, the occasional larger church may have a few paid positions in the choir—maybe one per section—especially if they’re near a college or university with a music program. I had a position like that my senior year in college (1980s). I think I got $10 per rehearsal/service. But that’s definitely not the norm.

  • Last night (Ash Wednesday) we had:

    “Restore in Us, O God”/BAYLOR
    “Eat this Bread”/J. Berthier, Taizé
    “Dear Lord and Father of Mankind”/REST

  • I don't know what was sung at Our Place, but Madam Sacristan will have insisted that the Mass at least begin with the mournful dirge of Forty Days And Forty Nights...
    :disappointed:

    Dear Lord and Father of Mankind
    seems very suitable, although in the UK it is (I think) sung mainly to Repton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCLNuU6Td0
  • I don't know what was sung at Our Place, but Madam Sacristan will have insisted that the Mass at least begin with the mournful dirge of Forty Days And Forty Nights...
    :disappointed:
    Oh, I like “Forty Days and Forty Nights,” though like many chorales, it needs to move at a clip. Otherwise, a dirge can indeed result.

    Dear Lord and Father of Mankind seems very suitable, although in the UK it is (I think) sung mainly to Repton.
    As it sometimes is here, and that’s noted as an alternate tune in our hymnal. But REST is the tune I’d suspect, based on experience and a quick look at hymnals, most American Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Methodists grew up on. (For those who don’t know the tune, it can be heard here.)

  • Now thats a tune that has had the Nellie Dean stick waved over it!
    Wiki has a fascinating article about the poem the hymn is taken from.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_Lord_and_Father_of_Mankind
  • Fascinating indeed - every day's a school-day here!
    :wink:
  • Alan29 wrote: »
    Now thats a tune that has had the Nellie Dean stick waved over it!
    I’m afraid that reference/observation is lost on this American.

  • And on this Englishman, too, I'm afraid...
  • It must be an age thing ...... slippy slidey sentimental harmonies as in the old music hall song
    https://youtu.be/Fxomfd3ViHQ
  • Ah, got it. Thanks.

    To be honest, I’ve never particularly cared for “Dear Lord and Father of Mankind.” And I’m talking about the text, not the tune(s). I know lots of folks love it, but it’s never really done anything for me. Just another aspect of my weirdness, I guess.

  • If that's the case, then I'm weird too - I can't stand the thing.
  • I love Lenten songs. So tomorrow we have

    Come back to me "Hosea"
    Kyrie is sung as no Gloria.
    Psalm 50.
    We come to you as ashes.
    Eagles Wings
    You shall cross the barren desert.
  • If that's the case, then I'm weird too - I can't stand the thing.

    A certain Ken, late of this parish, positively hated it on some theological grounds I never really grasped.

    Good wedding hymn, obviously ;)
  • Lent 1
    All people that on earth do dwell - Old 100th
    Love will be our Lenten calling - Picardy
    Forty days and forty nights - Heinlein
    All my hope on God is founded - Michael
    Choral:
    O most merciful - words: Heber, Melody: Schoenster Herr Jesu
    Take up your cross - Ronald Corp
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    Our final hymn this morning was And Can It Be, but Mrs Darda was not best pleased as Charles Wesley's words were sung to Nathan Fellingham's 2011 tune rather than SAGINA.
    She was raised West Riding Methodist so thinks that using anything other than the tune composed by fellow Yorkshire man Thomas Campbell is heretical. She also considers all Anglican congregational singing to be a pale imitation of the Real ThingTM to be found in Methodist chapels!
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    The First Sunday of Lent at St Pete's featured the following:

    Lead us, heavenly Father, lead us - Mannheim
    O for a closer walk with God - Stockton
    Praise to the holiest in the height - Gerontius
    Lord Jesus, think on me - Southwell
    God is walking his porpoise out - Benson

    Quite a nice selection, imho. We had the Organist Who Does Practise But Isn't Awfully Good this morning, and I had trouble working out how Stockton was supposed to go (it wasn't either of the tunes set beside the words in the hymnal and I couldn't be bothered to faff about finding it in the index). She also began Southwell* with a rather alien major chord before twigging what she was doing ...

    * David always used to put lots of atmospherics into Southwell, à la Noye's Fludde.
  • Darda wrote: »
    Our final hymn this morning was And Can It Be, but Mrs Darda was not best pleased as Charles Wesley's words were sung to Nathan Fellingham's 2011 tune rather than SAGINA.
    She was raised West Riding Methodist so thinks that using anything other than the tune composed by fellow Yorkshire man Thomas Campbell is heretical. She also considers all Anglican congregational singing to be a pale imitation of the Real ThingTM to be found in Methodist chapels!

    She is correct.
  • “Jesus! the name high over all” (Lydia).
    “Be bold, be strong”.
    “Forty days and forty nights” (Heinlein).
    “When we are tested” (by Ruth Duck, to Slane).
    “O Jesus, I have promised” (Hatherop Castle).
    Lenten doxology (Old 100th).

  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    I went to the morning service at our local Anglican Church this morning and we had:

    Jesu, Lover of my Soul
    O for a Heart to Praise my God
    O for a Closer Walk with God
    Forty Days and Forty Nights

    All except the first one were sung to tunes unfamiliar to me and the choir seemed very depleted so weren't able to give much of a lead, sadly.
  • Today (Lent 1) we had:

    “Come, Worship God” (Ps 95)/O QUANTA QUALIA
    “Lord, Who Throughout These Forty Day”/ST. FLAVIAN
    “Come and Seek the Ways of Wisdom”/MADELEINE
    “In the Lord, I’ll Be Ever Thankful”/J. Berthier, Taizé

    We also used the final verse of “O Love, How Deep, How Broad, How High (DEO GRATIAS) as a doxology, which it sounds like we’ll do throughout Lent.

    (And both the refrain for the responsorial psalm (32) and the tune MADELEINE have a measure or two each that reminded quite a few of us in the choir of bits of Phantom of the Opera. :lol: )
    Meanwhile, yesterday I attended the winter/spring meeting of presbytery, with a little under 200 people present. During worship we had:

    “Come Sing, O Church, in Joy”/DARWELL’S 148TH
    “Ho, All Who Thirst” (“Come Now to the Water”)/JACOB’S WELL
    “Come, Great God of All the Ages”/ABBOT’S LEIGH

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Today (Lent 1) we had:

    “Come, Worship God” (Ps 95)/O QUANTA QUALIA
    Personally I prefer "Epiphany Hymn".

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Today (Lent 1) we had:

    “Come, Worship God” (Ps 95)/O QUANTA QUALIA
    Personally I prefer "Epiphany Hymn".
    I’m not familiar with that tune. I found it in the Kirk’s CH4, but not in any North American hymnals I’ve checked.

  • Fair enough!
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    We had:
    O worship the King (HANOVER)
    Spirit of God descend upon our hearts (SONG 22)
    Forty days and forty nights
    I need thee every hour
    O Jesus I have promised (THORNBURY, I think, can't remember)
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