Learned it 20-odd years ago as a (barely competent) alto at St Frank’s under the direction of Madame la Directrice. Still in in brain to my surprise. If you have 2 competent sightreaders per part it is doable. Good luck!
Tbh I don’t know that we have more than a few who can read music, let alone sight-read Tudor polyphony!
We can make a reasonably joyful noise in a well-known hymn, but beyond that ...
Would they be interested in some informal tutoring?
For some reason, many Brits who are keen singers but don't read music are really defensive about at and very resistant to any suggestion that they should learn. Weird thing is it is part of the school music curriculum but most people never learn to do it.
Would they be interested in some informal tutoring?
For some reason, many Brits who are keen singers but don't read music are really defensive about at and very resistant to any suggestion that they should learn. Weird thing is it is part of the school music curriculum but most people never learn to do it.
Fewer and fewer schools in England have specialist music teachers and free instrumental tuition in state schools is a thing of the past.
It's also a class issue - I don't know anyone from my working class background in Luton who can read music or play an instrument but here in Cambridge, my middle class friends can do so, and their children have private music lessons. This is demonstrated in my own immediate family; I cannot read music but my middle class husband and children can. There is also the Christian musical heritage element; I was not brought up as a Christian and my childhood friends were not Christian (my best friend was Muslim and the rest were Hindu), whereas I mix in mainly Christian circles now.
Would they be interested in some informal tutoring?
For some reason, many Brits who are keen singers but don't read music are really defensive about at and very resistant to any suggestion that they should learn. Weird thing is it is part of the school music curriculum but most people never learn to do it.
Fewer and fewer schools in England have specialist music teachers and free instrumental tuition in state schools is a thing of the past.
This isn't instrument tuition - this is what's meant to happen in the box marked "Music" on the timetable up to and including Year 9.
Would they be interested in some informal tutoring?
For some reason, many Brits who are keen singers but don't read music are really defensive about at and very resistant to any suggestion that they should learn. Weird thing is it is part of the school music curriculum but most people never learn to do it.
Fewer and fewer schools in England have specialist music teachers and free instrumental tuition in state schools is a thing of the past.
This isn't instrument tuition - this is what's meant to happen in the box marked "Music" on the timetable up to and including Year 9.
I was referring to both. There are fewer classroom music teachers, so the timetable slot is covered by non-specialists. This will accelerate the decline of formal music in schools as fewer pupils take exams in the subject. I was discussing this with a school inspector last week. It is a national trend.
The decline in free instrument lessons from peripatetic teachers has hit churches like mine where music is led by a music group. not by organ/choir. Thirty years ago we had teenage violinists, flautists and clarinettists all of grade 6+, all from state schools and all taught by peripatetics. They were excellent. Now there are none.
Would they be interested in some informal tutoring?
I think they probably would - the difficulty would be finding a competent tutor - informal or otherwise. The voluntary organists are, for the most part, people who could once play the piano, and AFAIK none of them has any formal musical training, and certainly none in choir training.
I absolutely take the points made by Karl, Alan et al about music teaching. I was lucky to grow up in Orkney in the 70s when music teaching - and instrumental tuition - was greatly encouraged in schools (due in no small part to my late father, who was Director of Education for the county at the time, and whose policy was that every child had the opportunity to have at least one music period a week and the chance to learn an instrument), and I'm appalled at how it seems to have been sidelined these days in the name of economy (or worse, because it's perceived as "elitist". It won't be, if you make it available to everybody).
Back to the topic of the OP - our offerings at St Pete's this morning were:
Disposer supreme and judge of the earth - Paderborn Part of Psalm 95 - O come, let us joyfully sing to the Lord - St Denio Put thou thy trust in God - Doncaster Come down, O love divine - Down Ampney Let all the world in every corner sing - Luckington
No hymns from me today as I did not go to church, it being Pancake Praise, our informal family service. (Scotch) pancakes with toppings are served, even in Lent.
I have never been taught to read music, but I do so fairly competently, at least in treble clef. I have always sung in choirs, I taught myself to play the piano a little bit, and I learnt the violin in a group at school. No private tuition, no music theory. School lessons were mostly singing. I have just picked it up as I have gone along. The least a singer can do is to follow where a tune is going, and to work out the length of the notes of a simple melody. To be in a choir and boast “I can’t read music” makes no sense to me( unless it is the sort of choir which learns without a score, by ear and repetition).
Also one called "We Are The Church" which I can't find on YouTube; it was unfamiliar to me, although it was introduced with "We all know this one."
Was it along the lines of "I am the church, you are the church, we are the church together"?
We had:
Praise the one who breaks darkness (HYFRYDOL)
As the deer pants for the water
I heard the voice of Jesus say (ROWAN TREE)
Spirit of God come dwell within me (LEAVING OF LISMORE)
Blessing and honour and glory and power (BONNIE GEORGE CAMPBELL)
“Jesus is Lord! Creation’s voice proclaims it”.
“Light of the world (Here I am to worship)”.
“Meekness and majesty”.
“Nicodemus sought out Jesus”(Stuttgart).
“Christ, whose glory fills the skies” (Ratisbon).
“God has spoken by his prophets”(Ebenezer).
“Come, Let Us Praise the Lord” (Ps. 95)/DARWELL’S 148TH
“O Love, How Deep, How Broad, How High”/DEO GRACIAS
“Ho, All Who Thirst” (“Come Now to the Water”)/JACOB’S WELL
“Called as Partners in Christ’s Service”/EBENEZER
Lent 3
As the deer pants, /As the deer pants
Love will be our Lenten calling, /Picardy
Make me a channel of your peace, /Channel of peace
Lord let me see, / Let me see
Choral
Introit: God is a Spirit, by Henry Smart
Anthem: As Water to the Thirsty, by T. Brian Coleman
Lent 3
As the deer pants, /As the deer pants
Love will be our Lenten calling, /Picardy
Make me a channel of your peace, /Channel of peace
Lord let me see, / Let me see
Choral
Introit: God is a Spirit, by Henry Smart
Anthem: As Water to the Thirsty, by T. Brian Coleman
How well your username fits with the first of these!
Thanks KarlLB, indeed it does, though this is a coincidence as I don’t choose the music. I was thinking of “Like as the Hart” and the Palestrina motet more when I choose the username. And the original psalm too.
Lent 4
Bless the Lord, my soul, /Taize Chant
Love will be our Lenten calling, /Picardy
The Lord is my Shepherd, /My Shepherd
Beauty for brokenness, /Beauty for brokenness
The last two have some of those little syncopations which the congregation in their wisdom and good taste simply ignore.
Choral
Introit: The Eyes of All, by Roger Petrich
Anthem: The King of Love My Shepherd Is, by Harry Shelley
Almost packed church today for Lent 4/Mothering Sunday, at which we sang:
Angel voices, ever singing - Angel Voices
An extract from Psalm 34 to Jackson (Byzantium) Sing we of the blessed Mother - Abbot's Leigh Make me a channel of your peace - Make Me a Channel Tell out my soul - Woodlands
At the end of the service the young people in the congregation (of which there were considerably more than usual) handed out lovely little posies of flowers to all the ladies.
Praise, my soul, the king of heaven
Just as I am
The king of love my shepherd is
There is a green hill far away
Blessed assurance
I recalled that I'd taken a minor liberty with the lyrics of There is a green hill and amended the "without" in the second line to the clearer Scots word "outwith", which I still think it a worthwhile alteration.
Morning has broken (Bunessan)
God is love, his the care (Personent hodie)
Jesus, good above all other (Quem Pastores)
The Kumbayah Lord's Prayer 🤢
Happy Mothering Sunday to you (Happy Birthday)*
and a final hymn, which I missed, as I couldn't stand any more...
Psalm 23 - I will trust in you alone (Townsend)
Dear Lord and Father
Love Divine - Blaenwarn
Great is thy faithfulness
No love is greater
Here is love vast as the ocean
Morning has broken (Bunessan)
God is love, his the care (Personent hodie)
Jesus, good above all other (Quem Pastores)
The Kumbayah Lord's Prayer 🤢
Happy Mothering Sunday to you (Happy Birthday)*
and a final hymn, which I missed, as I couldn't stand any more...
* I kid you not. Naff is Our Place's middle name.
We had happy mothers day to happy birthday too. The priest got a "look" from me as he adked me to play it.
“Open My Eyes that I May See”/OPEN MY EYES
“Be Thou My Vision”/SLANE
“Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah”/ CWM RHONDDA
“We Will Walk with God”/SIZOHAMBA NAYE
Morning has broken (Bunessan)
God is love, his the care (Personent hodie)
Jesus, good above all other (Quem Pastores)
The Kumbayah Lord's Prayer 🤢
Happy Mothering Sunday to you (Happy Birthday)*
and a final hymn, which I missed, as I couldn't stand any more...
* I kid you not. Naff is Our Place's middle name.
We had happy mothers day to happy birthday too. The priest got a "look" from me as he adked me to play it.
Laetare Sunday yesterday @ Sancta Maria non Immaculata; normally would not go but met friends who return to Blighty today. Chanted introit, gradual and communio; Mozart Missa Brevis in D and Ave verum corpus. Hymns: Praise to the Holiest and I forget what else. Zilch congregational singing which was disappointing in a packed cathedral.
Morning has broken (Bunessan)
God is love, his the care (Personent hodie)
Jesus, good above all other (Quem Pastores)
The Kumbayah Lord's Prayer 🤢
Happy Mothering Sunday to you (Happy Birthday)*
and a final hymn, which I missed, as I couldn't stand any more...
* I kid you not. Naff is Our Place's middle name.
We had happy mothers day to happy birthday too. The priest got a "look" from me as he adked me to play it.
Help! I hope that someone, anyone was prepared to talk to him about it.
Just, no. Never. I wouldn't darken the door again.
Morning has broken (Bunessan)
God is love, his the care (Personent hodie)
Jesus, good above all other (Quem Pastores)
The Kumbayah Lord's Prayer 🤢
Happy Mothering Sunday to you (Happy Birthday)*
and a final hymn, which I missed, as I couldn't stand any more...
* I kid you not. Naff is Our Place's middle name.
We had happy mothers day to happy birthday too. The priest got a "look" from me as he adked me to play it.
Help! I hope that someone, anyone was prepared to talk to him about it.
Just, no. Never. I wouldn't darken the door again.
To be honest I am fairly relaxed about such things. It is one of the many ways that the body of Christ is built up in the locality. And the normal reverent liturgy happened either side of it. And to be honest we sing far worse tunes both ancient and modern.
My stern look was more to do with it being sprung on me.
and a final hymn, which I missed, as I couldn't stand any more...
......
The solemn worship of Almighty God brought down to the level of a children's tea party. Small wonder I don't attend services any more.
While I do understand where you are coming from (and this comment may not really belong in this thread) I do think that there is a place, sometimes at least, for being a bit "naff" and "populist" in church if it helps some people - especially non-regulars - connect with the worship. As it happens I don't know that song ... but I have chosen "Happy Birthday" for a Christmas Day Family Service, and don't regret doing so.
... Zilch congregational singing which was disappointing in a packed cathedral.
Zilch because there weren't any hymns, or because there were, but nobody sang them?
Quite often in cathedrals (where there's usually a decent choir), the congregation doesn't sing. David had a theory that the quality* of congregational singing was in inverse proportion to that of the choir.
... Zilch congregational singing which was disappointing in a packed cathedral.
Zilch because there weren't any hymns, or because there were, but nobody sang them?
Quite often in cathedrals (where there's usually a decent choir), the congregation doesn't sing. David had a theory that the quality* of congregational singing was in inverse proportion to that of the choir.
... Zilch congregational singing which was disappointing in a packed cathedral.
Zilch because there weren't any hymns, or because there were, but nobody sang them?
Quite often in cathedrals (where there's usually a decent choir), the congregation doesn't sing. David had a theory that the quality* of congregational singing was in inverse proportion to that of the choir.
* and possibly quantity as well
The latter.
I find that Cathedral groupies tend not to sing and it is in fact not encouraged @ Sancta Maria non Immaculata where pewsheets often don’t contain either hymns or chanted responses. However the congregational singing is better at St-Pat’s-in-the West; maybe it is the multi-ethnic makeup of the diocese and the music director’s efforts to encourage congregational singing with choir in plain sight.
Comments
“Holy, Holy, Holy! Lord God Almighty!”/NICEA
“All Things Bright and Beautiful”/ROYAL OAK
“For All the Saints”/SINE NOMINE
Tbh I don’t know that we have more than a few who can read music, let alone sight-read Tudor polyphony!
We can make a reasonably joyful noise in a well-known hymn, but beyond that ...
For some reason, many Brits who are keen singers but don't read music are really defensive about at and very resistant to any suggestion that they should learn. Weird thing is it is part of the school music curriculum but most people never learn to do it.
Fewer and fewer schools in England have specialist music teachers and free instrumental tuition in state schools is a thing of the past.
This isn't instrument tuition - this is what's meant to happen in the box marked "Music" on the timetable up to and including Year 9.
I was referring to both. There are fewer classroom music teachers, so the timetable slot is covered by non-specialists. This will accelerate the decline of formal music in schools as fewer pupils take exams in the subject. I was discussing this with a school inspector last week. It is a national trend.
The decline in free instrument lessons from peripatetic teachers has hit churches like mine where music is led by a music group. not by organ/choir. Thirty years ago we had teenage violinists, flautists and clarinettists all of grade 6+, all from state schools and all taught by peripatetics. They were excellent. Now there are none.
I think they probably would - the difficulty would be finding a competent tutor - informal or otherwise. The voluntary organists are, for the most part, people who could once play the piano, and AFAIK none of them has any formal musical training, and certainly none in choir training.
I absolutely take the points made by Karl, Alan et al about music teaching. I was lucky to grow up in Orkney in the 70s when music teaching - and instrumental tuition - was greatly encouraged in schools (due in no small part to my late father, who was Director of Education for the county at the time, and whose policy was that every child had the opportunity to have at least one music period a week and the chance to learn an instrument), and I'm appalled at how it seems to have been sidelined these days in the name of economy (or worse, because it's perceived as "elitist". It won't be, if you make it available to everybody).
Back to the topic of the OP - our offerings at St Pete's this morning were:
Disposer supreme and judge of the earth - Paderborn
Part of Psalm 95 - O come, let us joyfully sing to the Lord - St Denio
Put thou thy trust in God - Doncaster
Come down, O love divine - Down Ampney
Let all the world in every corner sing - Luckington
These are the Days of Elijah
Everyone Needs Compassion
Blessed Be Your Name
Also one called "We Are The Church" which I can't find on YouTube; it was unfamiliar to me, although it was introduced with "We all know this one."
Do you mean "Build Your Kingdom Here"
https://youtu.be/sbdJXKqVgtg
No, I don't - I do know that one.
I have never been taught to read music, but I do so fairly competently, at least in treble clef. I have always sung in choirs, I taught myself to play the piano a little bit, and I learnt the violin in a group at school. No private tuition, no music theory. School lessons were mostly singing. I have just picked it up as I have gone along. The least a singer can do is to follow where a tune is going, and to work out the length of the notes of a simple melody. To be in a choir and boast “I can’t read music” makes no sense to me( unless it is the sort of choir which learns without a score, by ear and repetition).
Was it along the lines of "I am the church, you are the church, we are the church together"?
We had:
Praise the one who breaks darkness (HYFRYDOL)
As the deer pants for the water
I heard the voice of Jesus say (ROWAN TREE)
Spirit of God come dwell within me (LEAVING OF LISMORE)
Blessing and honour and glory and power (BONNIE GEORGE CAMPBELL)
“Light of the world (Here I am to worship)”.
“Meekness and majesty”.
“Nicodemus sought out Jesus”(Stuttgart).
“Christ, whose glory fills the skies” (Ratisbon).
“God has spoken by his prophets”(Ebenezer).
It's the one I was thinking of, too.
“Come, Let Us Praise the Lord” (Ps. 95)/DARWELL’S 148TH
“O Love, How Deep, How Broad, How High”/DEO GRACIAS
“Ho, All Who Thirst” (“Come Now to the Water”)/JACOB’S WELL
“Called as Partners in Christ’s Service”/EBENEZER
As the deer pants, /As the deer pants
Love will be our Lenten calling, /Picardy
Make me a channel of your peace, /Channel of peace
Lord let me see, / Let me see
Choral
Introit: God is a Spirit, by Henry Smart
Anthem: As Water to the Thirsty, by T. Brian Coleman
How well your username fits with the first of these!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuzHsp7eCF8
Bless the Lord, my soul, /Taize Chant
Love will be our Lenten calling, /Picardy
The Lord is my Shepherd, /My Shepherd
Beauty for brokenness, /Beauty for brokenness
The last two have some of those little syncopations which the congregation in their wisdom and good taste simply ignore.
Choral
Introit: The Eyes of All, by Roger Petrich
Anthem: The King of Love My Shepherd Is, by Harry Shelley
Angel voices ever singing. ( Angel voices)
Come down O love divine ( Down Ampney)
I come with joy ( St Botolph)
Tell out my soul. ( Woodlands )
No choir.
The Sanctus was sung to its usual setting.
Brother, sister let me serve you The Servant Song
For All the Saints Sine Nomine (Just the first four verses)
Angel voices, ever singing - Angel Voices
An extract from Psalm 34 to Jackson (Byzantium)
Sing we of the blessed Mother - Abbot's Leigh
Make me a channel of your peace - Make Me a Channel
Tell out my soul - Woodlands
At the end of the service the young people in the congregation (of which there were considerably more than usual) handed out lovely little posies of flowers to all the ladies.
“Jesus put this song into our hearts”(Kendrick).
“For the beauty of the earth” - Lucerna Laudoniae.
“Lord of our growing years” - Little Cornard.
“Now thank we all our God” - Nun Danket.
Song of a young prophet.
Eagles wings.
Christ be our light.
Just as I am
The king of love my shepherd is
There is a green hill far away
Blessed assurance
I recalled that I'd taken a minor liberty with the lyrics of There is a green hill and amended the "without" in the second line to the clearer Scots word "outwith", which I still think it a worthwhile alteration.
Our Place had:
Morning has broken (Bunessan)
God is love, his the care (Personent hodie)
Jesus, good above all other (Quem Pastores)
The Kumbayah Lord's Prayer 🤢
Happy Mothering Sunday to you (Happy Birthday)*
and a final hymn, which I missed, as I couldn't stand any more...
* I kid you not. Naff is Our Place's middle name.
Dear Lord and Father
Love Divine - Blaenwarn
Great is thy faithfulness
No love is greater
Here is love vast as the ocean
We had happy mothers day to happy birthday too. The priest got a "look" from me as he adked me to play it.
“Open My Eyes that I May See”/OPEN MY EYES
“Be Thou My Vision”/SLANE
“Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah”/ CWM RHONDDA
“We Will Walk with God”/SIZOHAMBA NAYE
Indeed.
AFAICT, it was sung a capella at Our Place, unless the organist joined in after I'd turned off the video...
The solemn worship of Almighty God brought down to the level of a children's tea party. Small wonder I don't attend services any more.
Very.
Holy Overshadowing (O spread your wings of mercy over me).
(My memory worries me sometimes.)
Be Still for the Presence of the Lord, the Holy One, is here
Christ Alone, Cornerstone (My hope is built on nothing less)
Help! I hope that someone, anyone was prepared to talk to him about it.
Just, no. Never. I wouldn't darken the door again.
To be honest I am fairly relaxed about such things. It is one of the many ways that the body of Christ is built up in the locality. And the normal reverent liturgy happened either side of it. And to be honest we sing far worse tunes both ancient and modern.
My stern look was more to do with it being sprung on me.
Yes, I get that.
Quite often in cathedrals (where there's usually a decent choir), the congregation doesn't sing. David had a theory that the quality* of congregational singing was in inverse proportion to that of the choir.
* and possibly quantity as well
The latter.
I find that Cathedral groupies tend not to sing and it is in fact not encouraged @ Sancta Maria non Immaculata where pewsheets often don’t contain either hymns or chanted responses. However the congregational singing is better at St-Pat’s-in-the West; maybe it is the multi-ethnic makeup of the diocese and the music director’s efforts to encourage congregational singing with choir in plain sight.