"I am one of the few remaining UK Methodists - not a denomination in which I would imagine you would find true love, if I am honest, given our ages "
I am a Methodist too, and there is no way I am finding love at my church. I attend because I prefer traditional worship, and I appreciate that the ministers admit when they don't have any easy answers to some of life's agonising situations. Believe it or not, I transferred to that church from Nicky Gumbel's Holy Trinity Brompton - after 6 years there I got fed up with the promises of a wonderful life which seemed to happen to everyone else, but not me. All my contemporaries were middle class, whereas I am not.
Thank you to everyone who replied to this thread. Whether or not to see a sex worker is not an easy decision to make, I don't know how I would feel after the encounter - relieved, guilty etc. And then there is the dilemma of whether to tell a future boyfriend, and if I did, would he understand, or would he get angry and finish with me etc.
It has been great to find somewhere to share what I have been through, and I hope my life moves on in some way soon.
Kind regards,
Alto 16
That's an unusual route into Methodism - well, if you are at your next church covenant service, you'll have a memory of a context for that prayer which won't be shared by many!
From this age - early 50s - I can't imagine being any more surprised or saddened by what has happened to someone I cared for in earlier life, than I am by my own history. So I (for what it is worth, which might not be much) would not think about your choices from that point of view, but rather from taking the very best care of yourself. Different people here (and certainly, in the wider world) would have a very different take on what that might imply, and would recommend completely opposed courses of action. As someone with some personal experience to offer, I have tried to share what I can. I'd also echo a former ship-mates sig line (when we used to have those) which was a quote from Elbert Hubbard - 'we are punished by our sins, not for them'. Take care of yourself.
Since I've got this far, I don't have anything to lose by asking the following:
[redacted]
Host, please take this down if inappropriate.
[redacted]
[Hello I can see why you might want to have a shot at this but sorry to say it breaks Commandment 9 as it's basically a personal ad. Sorry! L Epiphanies Host]
Reminiscing with my daughter, I remembered an event which Shipmates might find amusing.
My daughter's Sunday School were going to a Christian day-camp with a variety of activities and talks. One of the talks was described as being aimed at 10 year olds, and my daughter's class were signed up for it.
It subsequently turned out that the speaker was English and had described his talk as being aimed at "Year 10." Our school years are Primaries 1-7 and secondary 1-6, the organiser hadn't realised what "Year 10" meant, had assumed Year 10 = 10 years old, and had advertised it as such. My daughter was 9.
When I picked her up at the end of the day, her Sunday School teacher told me the talk had included sex and suggested I chat through the talk with my daughter, to see how much she had understood.
"So, what did the speaker tell you about sex, Quinie?"
"He said it was like petrol. Petrol is dangerous if you splash it around, but if it's in a car it's safe. And sex is the same. The best place for sex is in a car."
(pause)
"Are you sure he didn't say that the best place for petrol is in a car and the best place for sex is in a marriage?"
(thoughtful pause)
"That would make more sense."
I wonder if the "True Love Waits" speaker realised that at least one of his audience thought he was recommending shagging in the back of a car?
I wonder if the "True Love Waits" speaker realised that at least one of his audience thought he was recommending shagging in the back of a car?
Well, he didn't notice that the audience of randy teenagers he was asking for and expecting were actually all still in primary school, so I very much doubt that being observant features in his list of skills at all.
But I'm sort of amazed that he used his "petrol" analogy with actual "year 10" kids with any success - I remember being 15, and pretty much every one of us would have nitpicked his analogy to death (because we were 15, and therefore massive jerks and thought we were much smarter than we were). In what way is sex like petrol? Are you saying I should buy sex on street corners to fill up my marriage's sex tank? Is having sex like filling the tank or like using the petrol? If you've got more than one car, is it OK to fill them all up at the same time, or should you take them to the petrol station one after the other? I'm just trying to understand your analogy, sir.
@North East Quine that's a gem. Thank you. Great also to hear that after a short reflection your daughter was bright enough to work out that that probably wasn't the message. You can reassure yourself you've done a good job.
I became a Christian in the late 1990's when I was a teenager. Around the same time, I read an article on the True Love Waits movement in the USA (I'm in the UK) and I rather liked what I read. It seemed that all I needed to do was keep my legs closed and I would be rewarded with a lovely husband and a trouble free life.
Well, Mr right never showed up and now I'm a 41 year old virgin. The years of waiting, and waiting, and waiting, have proved ruinous in my life. I expended resources which I don't have on all the Christian dating sites, private introduction agencies, etc. but all to no avail. For the benefit of non - UK readers, most of the Christian women in the UK will not be getting married, because there are hardly any Christian men. But when you are young and just starting out, you believe that things will eventually work out and God has got it all sorted. But He hasn't. I'm still waiting.
The unwanted celibacy lead me to depression and alcoholism, and it is only due to antidepressants and being able to pay for counselling that I started to turn a corner. I have accepted that Mr Right isn't coming, and I won't be having any kids. I just want to ask if anyone else on here has been through something similar? Or perhaps not, nobody else would be so stupid as to stick to that stupid old rule LOL.
Admin, if this post is in any way inappropriate, please delete and accept my apologies.
Hi Alto,
Your story resonated with me strongly as another woman who is a survivor of the" True Love Waits" movement.
I was raised in an evangelical family and sold the Good Little Evangelicals wait until marriage line as well. Like you I was fed the line that if I waited faithfully a wonderful Christian husband would show up and love, marriage, sex, and children would follow along with happily ever after.
Like you this did not happen.
By 35 I was in the process of ditching the evangelical theology and church I had grown up in. Apart from the fact that my Bio Clock was ticking deafeningly I could not reconcile the God of love I believed in with the god of the church who marched people off to hell for believing the wrong thing and was obsessed with sexual sin and squeezing people into a narrowly boxed life of heterosexual middle class virtuous marriage.
Though I have not posted for many years, at the time this Ship of Fools was very instrumental in providing a safe space for me to question, examine and grow into a very different theology and relationship with the creator.
By 37 I had found my vocation as a Trade Union Organiser, Become part of an inclusive Anglican Church and ditched the evangelical theology for good. I got myself into a good Psychotherapists office and spilled the whole story telling her that I longed for children, armriage and was not happy as a 37 year old virgin and needed to work through the issues that were preventing me from entering into a meaningful sexual relationship.
I now understand that I was never going to find a Good Little Evangelical (GLE) husband because I was not GLE wife material. I am a strong, intelligent, activist with a vocation for organising and advocacy. I am a feminist. I am deeply spiritual and for Evangelical men I am way too much.
Having ditched the evangelical theology I allowed myself to date outside of my faith, had a couple of sexual relationships (lost the virginity at 37/38) and then met my husband who at the time was a Zen Buddhist. Our marriage lasted 8 years. I do not regret a second of it and see it as one of God's gifts to me. I have a 18 year old step-son who 'made me a mother and I raised with my husband when his mother died. I lost 3 babies to miscarriage which will always hurt and I am in the long process of reconciling myself to never having my own biological child.
I still carry deep anger around the theology I was fed that prevented me from pursuing life giving relationships outside of that framework. It cost me children of my own and I now see the theology as a toxic patriarchal construct that is designed to control and repress womens sexuality and fertility. It cost me dearly.
Having said that my soon to be ex-husband and I will always be dear friends and he brought me my beautiful son who is the child of my heart if not my body. I don't know if I will ever marry again, I am definitely not done with sex though.
This is my journey and the two best things I ever did were to get myself a spiritual director to help me move from the toxic theology of the evangelical church and a psychotherapist to help me work through the psychological and emotional damage done.
happy to chat online if you ever need. Feel free to PM if you like.
Good to see you, @Dee . I too remember you from the Old Ship. Thank you for sharing you story ... and also how The Ship was a safe place for you to discover a new relationship with the Divine.
Comments
(Plus, a fellow alto is always welcome!)
That's an unusual route into Methodism - well, if you are at your next church covenant service, you'll have a memory of a context for that prayer which won't be shared by many!
From this age - early 50s - I can't imagine being any more surprised or saddened by what has happened to someone I cared for in earlier life, than I am by my own history. So I (for what it is worth, which might not be much) would not think about your choices from that point of view, but rather from taking the very best care of yourself. Different people here (and certainly, in the wider world) would have a very different take on what that might imply, and would recommend completely opposed courses of action. As someone with some personal experience to offer, I have tried to share what I can. I'd also echo a former ship-mates sig line (when we used to have those) which was a quote from Elbert Hubbard - 'we are punished by our sins, not for them'. Take care of yourself.
Since I've got this far, I don't have anything to lose by asking the following:
[redacted]
Host, please take this down if inappropriate.
[redacted]
[Hello I can see why you might want to have a shot at this but sorry to say it breaks Commandment 9 as it's basically a personal ad. Sorry! L Epiphanies Host]
Reminiscing with my daughter, I remembered an event which Shipmates might find amusing.
My daughter's Sunday School were going to a Christian day-camp with a variety of activities and talks. One of the talks was described as being aimed at 10 year olds, and my daughter's class were signed up for it.
It subsequently turned out that the speaker was English and had described his talk as being aimed at "Year 10." Our school years are Primaries 1-7 and secondary 1-6, the organiser hadn't realised what "Year 10" meant, had assumed Year 10 = 10 years old, and had advertised it as such. My daughter was 9.
When I picked her up at the end of the day, her Sunday School teacher told me the talk had included sex and suggested I chat through the talk with my daughter, to see how much she had understood.
"So, what did the speaker tell you about sex, Quinie?"
"He said it was like petrol. Petrol is dangerous if you splash it around, but if it's in a car it's safe. And sex is the same. The best place for sex is in a car."
(pause)
"Are you sure he didn't say that the best place for petrol is in a car and the best place for sex is in a marriage?"
(thoughtful pause)
"That would make more sense."
I wonder if the "True Love Waits" speaker realised that at least one of his audience thought he was recommending shagging in the back of a car?
Well, he didn't notice that the audience of randy teenagers he was asking for and expecting were actually all still in primary school, so I very much doubt that being observant features in his list of skills at all.
But I'm sort of amazed that he used his "petrol" analogy with actual "year 10" kids with any success - I remember being 15, and pretty much every one of us would have nitpicked his analogy to death (because we were 15, and therefore massive jerks and thought we were much smarter than we were). In what way is sex like petrol? Are you saying I should buy sex on street corners to fill up my marriage's sex tank? Is having sex like filling the tank or like using the petrol? If you've got more than one car, is it OK to fill them all up at the same time, or should you take them to the petrol station one after the other? I'm just trying to understand your analogy, sir.
How old is she now?
Hi Alto,
Your story resonated with me strongly as another woman who is a survivor of the" True Love Waits" movement.
I was raised in an evangelical family and sold the Good Little Evangelicals wait until marriage line as well. Like you I was fed the line that if I waited faithfully a wonderful Christian husband would show up and love, marriage, sex, and children would follow along with happily ever after.
Like you this did not happen.
By 35 I was in the process of ditching the evangelical theology and church I had grown up in. Apart from the fact that my Bio Clock was ticking deafeningly I could not reconcile the God of love I believed in with the god of the church who marched people off to hell for believing the wrong thing and was obsessed with sexual sin and squeezing people into a narrowly boxed life of heterosexual middle class virtuous marriage.
Though I have not posted for many years, at the time this Ship of Fools was very instrumental in providing a safe space for me to question, examine and grow into a very different theology and relationship with the creator.
By 37 I had found my vocation as a Trade Union Organiser, Become part of an inclusive Anglican Church and ditched the evangelical theology for good. I got myself into a good Psychotherapists office and spilled the whole story telling her that I longed for children, armriage and was not happy as a 37 year old virgin and needed to work through the issues that were preventing me from entering into a meaningful sexual relationship.
I now understand that I was never going to find a Good Little Evangelical (GLE) husband because I was not GLE wife material. I am a strong, intelligent, activist with a vocation for organising and advocacy. I am a feminist. I am deeply spiritual and for Evangelical men I am way too much.
Having ditched the evangelical theology I allowed myself to date outside of my faith, had a couple of sexual relationships (lost the virginity at 37/38) and then met my husband who at the time was a Zen Buddhist. Our marriage lasted 8 years. I do not regret a second of it and see it as one of God's gifts to me. I have a 18 year old step-son who 'made me a mother and I raised with my husband when his mother died. I lost 3 babies to miscarriage which will always hurt and I am in the long process of reconciling myself to never having my own biological child.
I still carry deep anger around the theology I was fed that prevented me from pursuing life giving relationships outside of that framework. It cost me children of my own and I now see the theology as a toxic patriarchal construct that is designed to control and repress womens sexuality and fertility. It cost me dearly.
Having said that my soon to be ex-husband and I will always be dear friends and he brought me my beautiful son who is the child of my heart if not my body. I don't know if I will ever marry again, I am definitely not done with sex though.
This is my journey and the two best things I ever did were to get myself a spiritual director to help me move from the toxic theology of the evangelical church and a psychotherapist to help me work through the psychological and emotional damage done.
happy to chat online if you ever need. Feel free to PM if you like.