As to 'Ding Dong merrily on High', wasn't this once condemmed by the blessed Mary Whitehouse? Or was that 'My Dingaling'?
I was in Christmas plays and pantos for many years up to the age of 16 (when my voice at last broke). I still know all the fecking sons and hate 'em all. Especially 'Little Donkey'
All ghastly sentimental tosh.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!!!!
To the question whyJingle Bells, Frosty the Snowman, Sleigh Bells Ringing, are considered Christmas Songs who were the authors?
I don’t know. Care to enlighten us?
See my post above - though I can’t see how knowing who the authors are helps answer the question whether they are Christmas songs.
OK, so now I know who the authors were, I’m still none the wiser as to why they are considered Christmas songs.
Because they're songs usually sung at Christmas-tide?
I’m still confused though. When I asked why they are considered Christmas songs, despite not mentioning Christmas, I was told it was something to do with the authors. I still don’t get it.
At our shack they always sing 'O Come O Come Emmanuel' at Christmas. And it always sounds like a dreadful dirge.
Can it be sung so that it sounds like rejoicing?
I have a particular loathing for Little Drummer Boy. I was amazed that many people list it as their favourite which doesn't say much for current musical standards. No more ruppa pum pum please!
This will surely change your views on Little Drummer Boy? I certainly haven't been able to hear it the same since, thank God!
At our shack they always sing 'O Come O Come Emmanuel' at Christmas. And it always sounds like a dreadful dirge.
Can it be sung so that it sounds like rejoicing?
My previous church worship band did it a la Led Zeppelin’s “Whole Lotta Love”, would that help?
At our shack they always sing 'O Come O Come Emmanuel' at Christmas. And it always sounds like a dreadful dirge.
Can it be sung so that it sounds like rejoicing?
Yes, it can, though I don’t really think that it should sound like rejoicing, the words of the refrain not withstanding. In my opinion, it should sound contemplative or meditative.
O come O come Emmanuel really belongs to Advent, rather than Christmas, and is more to do with the purpose of the Incarnation than the actual story of the birth.
It's actually one of my all-time favourite hymns, but I agree that it should not be sung in dirge-like manner...even just increasing the tempo very slightly, and really going all out on the refrain, should help...
At a time when Christmas was not a public holiday in Scotland it was traditional in the larger cities to have a performance of Handel's Messiah on New Year's Day.
Nowadays it is usually on 2nd January and I am looking forward to hearing and seeing Sir James MacMillan conduct it in Edinburgh.
O come O come Emmanuel really belongs to Advent, rather than Christmas, and is more to do with the purpose of the Incarnation than the actual story of the birth.
It's actually one of my all-time favourite hymns, but I agree that it should not be sung in dirge-like manner...even just increasing the tempo very slightly, and really going all out on the refrain, should help...
I only learned this week (from my BRF Bible notes) that O Come, O Come, Emmanuel is based on seven sixth-century Latin prayers known as the 'Great Antiphons' which formed the response to the Magnificat during Advent Vespers, one each day between 17 and 23 December. The seven prayers were developed into a hymn, possibly as early as the eighth century, although today we sing John Mason Neale's English translation from the 19th century. Each verse opens with a divine title that parallels with the Latin: Emmanuel (Emmanuel), Rod of Jesse (Radix), Dayspring (Oriens), Key of David (Clavis) and Lord of Might (Adonai)
Yes, and some hymnals—including the current PC(USA) hymnal and, I think, TEC’s Hymnal 1982—include notes on the proper verse for each day, since the order is different in Neale’s hymn version.
Well, today I am about to break out in song: Here Comes The Sun written by George Harrison. Because tomorrow the sun begins it journey back to the north, sorry people down under.
The reason why I asked who wrote the other songs is the names might give you a clue as to why they do not mention Christmas at all.
For me it's all about context.
Please don't make me sing "Away in a manger" or "Little Donkey"......unless it's as part of a young children's Nativity play with me on the guitar and my class of 4-5 year olds screeching and warbling their through both with great gusto and enjoyment. So many memories!
At our shack they always sing 'O Come O Come Emmanuel' at Christmas. And it always sounds like a dreadful dirge.
Can it be sung so that it sounds like rejoicing?
I'm sure someone somewhere has probably already set it to a catchy beat and thrown in a few "yeah babe"s and "wooah"s. But it's based on plainchant, so is never going to sound exultant and excited otherwise.
If you're collecting dirges, "In the Bleak Midwinter" is one that can become one with very little effort.
At our shack they always sing 'O Come O Come Emmanuel' at Christmas. And it always sounds like a dreadful dirge.
Can it be sung so that it sounds like rejoicing?
Well, it does have the words
Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel shall come to thee, O Israel.
There's a version with a descant by either Willcocks or Ledger (can't remember which) to the last two verses that is very joyful indeed (well I always get joy from singing it). And BF's right - it's really an Advent hymn rather than a Christmas one.
I've posted this in previous years, but I defy anyone to argue that this monstrosity, the Cat Carol is anything other than the worst Christmas song ever. It's got the lot,
sickly sentimental and tuneless tune;
sickly sentimental words;
sung with a sickly sentimental voice;
and sickly sentimental woo-woos in the background;
with words that don't scan;
don't rhyme;
and don't fit the tune;
emotionally false;
bad theology;
bad natural history;
bad astronomy;
and yet it seems to have been done with complete seriousness.
An ear worm that can spoil Christmas for every listener and destroy their instincts for good will towards their fellow creatures, whether human or animal.
Please click the link and listen. After you've experienced this, you won't even detest Mommy kissing Santa Claus quite as much as you did.
I've posted this in previous years, but I defy anyone to argue that this monstrosity, the Cat Carol is anything other than the worst Christmas song ever. It's got the lot,
sickly sentimental and tuneless tune;
sickly sentimental words;
sung with a sickly sentimental voice;
and sickly sentimental woo-woos in the background;
with words that don't scan;
don't rhyme;
and don't fit the tune;
emotionally false;
bad theology;
bad natural history;
bad astronomy;
and yet it seems to have been done with complete seriousness.
An ear worm that can spoil Christmas for every listener and destroy their instincts for good will towards their fellow creatures, whether human or animal.
Please click the link and listen. After you've experienced this, you won't even detest Mommy kissing Santa Claus quite as much as you did.
My Christmas Song Hate List
In a strong field the winner, by a country-mile, is Silent Night - everything: syrupy words, swooping tune, twee origin story, the lot. Just. Don't
Then, more-or-less in order: When a child is born, especially sung by Johnny Mathis Christmas (Baby please come home) - a monstrous offering from Darlene Love and Phil Spector that deserves it's own niche in hell. O Holy Night - interminable trash, pure and simple. The Little Drummer Boy - not even Bing and Bowie could redeem this. Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer - sounds like it was written by a committee of 4 year olds, dim ones.
Honourable mentions for badness go to:
The Gustav Holst tune for In the bleak midwinter Hark! The herald angels sing - angels are supposed to be ethereal spirits, the antithesis of this stodgy mess. Holly Jolly Christmas - I like Michael Bublé but this is barely forgivable Jingle Bells - even the Yale Glee Club can't persuade me.
My Christmas Song Hate List
In a strong field the winner, by a country-mile, is Silent Night - everything: syrupy words, swooping tune, twee origin story, the lot.
And on top of all that, whenever I go carol singing with the choir we always get asked to sing it, usually by someone who is a bit pissed.
My current earworm, and has been on and off for a while, is Molly Malone. Somehow this has got mixed up with Christmas music.
O little town of Bethlehem, how still we see thee lie
Above thy deep and dreamless sleep the silent stars go by
‘Twas there I first saw sweet Molly Malone
As she wheeled her wheelbarrow
Through streets broad and narrow
Crying, "Holly and ivy, alive, alive O!"
Just returning to say how much I LOVE Silent Night and both the Darke and the Holst version of 'In the bleak'. Still searching through the memory banks for the ones I definitely can live without.... maybe, 'Little Jesus, sweetly sing (we will rock you, rock you, rock you)'? But even then, I've heard some lovely versions of it. I remember a church choir revolt over 'What child is this' to Greensleeves, where it was regarded as so depressing, the ladies refused eventually to sing it.
And never mind the Little Drummer Boy. I always had my suspicions about 'Willie, take your little drum (pat-a-pan)', though old French carols at least have a bit of heritage to them!
In terms of secular songs, I hate the Mariah Carey 'All I want for Christmas' trash. It kind of stands for everything that's wrong with the Christmas season: loud, brash, insincere, loud, overdone, tasteless, loud, derivative, superficial - did I say 'loud'?
I've posted this in previous years, but I defy anyone to argue that this monstrosity, the Cat Carol is anything other than the worst Christmas song ever. It's got the lot,
sickly sentimental and tuneless tune;
sickly sentimental words;
sung with a sickly sentimental voice;
and sickly sentimental woo-woos in the background;
with words that don't scan;
don't rhyme;
and don't fit the tune;
emotionally false;
bad theology;
bad natural history;
bad astronomy;
and yet it seems to have been done with complete seriousness.
An ear worm that can spoil Christmas for every listener and destroy their instincts for good will towards their fellow creatures, whether human or animal.
Please click the link and listen. After you've experienced this, you won't even detest Mommy kissing Santa Claus quite as much as you did.
Enoch, you are so right, but you missed manipulative. It's so sickly sentimental - wallows in it. The only thing that could have made it worse was if the cat had been resurrected, and I say that as a lover of cats.
I read the comments section and it left me as cold as the song itself did.
@Huia when I was initially cheered by your response, I was going to question 'manipulative' as an extra horror to add to the list, over and above sickly, sentimental, emotionally false and everything else that's wrong with it, as although there's a link to where you can buy the CD, it doesn't ask for money. Having read the comments people have been making, though, I agree with you. I hadn't bothered to look at them before. But their reactions strike me as good evidence that people have had their emotions manipulated.
Re: Do They Know It's Christmas?, there's a local band that has, for many years, done at their annual Christmas concert an amazing mash-up of that song with Fairytale of New York to close out the show. I've heard it several times as they're one of my favourite bands and our family has often taken in their Christmas show. At the last one I went to (2021), they had added a new twist: in between lines of Do They Know It's Christmas? the lead singer throws in cynical commentary on the lines just sung, as in:
There won't be snow in Africa this Christmastime
"Actually, there will be, in quite a few places."'
etc.
I can't remember his exact comment after singing the line "Tonight thank God it's them instead of you" but it was particularly scathing. I thought the commentary was a great addition to the performance.
In the past couple of years it's come home to me that Christmas is a myth: a convention, a belief, not a physical fact. Nothing actually happens on Christmas Day. There are no heavenly choirs of angels and all the rest of it. It's simply that many of us agree to commemorate something that was over and done with centuries ago and which has largely metamorphosed into a winter festival.
Not a winter festival for all of us......
Most attempts to have season relevant carols have failed badly. Of those which haven't, most have failed very badly have failed very badly. An exception to prove the rule is John Wheeler's:
The north wind is tossing the leaves,
The red dust hangs over the town,
The sparrows are under the eaves
And the grass in the paddocks is brown.
As we lift up our voices and sing
To the Christ Child, our Heavenly King
Comments
I was in Christmas plays and pantos for many years up to the age of 16 (when my voice at last broke). I still know all the fecking sons and hate 'em all. Especially 'Little Donkey'
All ghastly sentimental tosh.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!!!!
OK, so now I know who the authors were, I’m still none the wiser as to why they are considered Christmas songs.
Because they're songs usually sung at Christmas-tide?
Yep. That's really the be-all and end-all.
I’m still confused though. When I asked why they are considered Christmas songs, despite not mentioning Christmas, I was told it was something to do with the authors. I still don’t get it.
Can it be sung so that it sounds like rejoicing?
This will surely change your views on Little Drummer Boy? I certainly haven't been able to hear it the same since, thank God!
https://flic.kr/p/2o6UpMW
Dafyd Hell Host
(Now restored - I hope ! Doublethink, Admin)
(Should be whole now, Doublethink, Admin)
My previous church worship band did it a la Led Zeppelin’s “Whole Lotta Love”, would that help?
It's actually one of my all-time favourite hymns, but I agree that it should not be sung in dirge-like manner...even just increasing the tempo very slightly, and really going all out on the refrain, should help...
Nowadays it is usually on 2nd January and I am looking forward to hearing and seeing Sir James MacMillan conduct it in Edinburgh.
I only learned this week (from my BRF Bible notes) that O Come, O Come, Emmanuel is based on seven sixth-century Latin prayers known as the 'Great Antiphons' which formed the response to the Magnificat during Advent Vespers, one each day between 17 and 23 December. The seven prayers were developed into a hymn, possibly as early as the eighth century, although today we sing John Mason Neale's English translation from the 19th century. Each verse opens with a divine title that parallels with the Latin: Emmanuel (Emmanuel), Rod of Jesse (Radix), Dayspring (Oriens), Key of David (Clavis) and Lord of Might (Adonai)
The reason why I asked who wrote the other songs is the names might give you a clue as to why they do not mention Christmas at all.
Please don't make me sing "Away in a manger" or "Little Donkey"......unless it's as part of a young children's Nativity play with me on the guitar and my class of 4-5 year olds screeching and warbling their through both with great gusto and enjoyment. So many memories!
I'm sure someone somewhere has probably already set it to a catchy beat and thrown in a few "yeah babe"s and "wooah"s. But it's based on plainchant, so is never going to sound exultant and excited otherwise.
If you're collecting dirges, "In the Bleak Midwinter" is one that can become one with very little effort.
Thanks! I had no idea it was even possible to generate a selection of a thread.
Well, it does have the words
There's a version with a descant by either Willcocks or Ledger (can't remember which) to the last two verses that is very joyful indeed (well I always get joy from singing it). And BF's right - it's really an Advent hymn rather than a Christmas one.
Oh, it's quite fun if you sing it at a suitable tempo. It picks up a rather bouncy quality.
Usually, of course, it is sung at some speed between andante and asleep.
- sickly sentimental and tuneless tune;
- sickly sentimental words;
- sung with a sickly sentimental voice;
- and sickly sentimental woo-woos in the background;
- with words that don't scan;
- don't rhyme;
- and don't fit the tune;
- emotionally false;
- bad theology;
- bad natural history;
- bad astronomy;
- and yet it seems to have been done with complete seriousness.
An ear worm that can spoil Christmas for every listener and destroy their instincts for good will towards their fellow creatures, whether human or animal.Please click the link and listen. After you've experienced this, you won't even detest Mommy kissing Santa Claus quite as much as you did.
Christmas songs that we don't like...
and someone misread the title.
IMHO, both tunes are very good, but I'm not too keen on the words.
Oh this is fantastic.
In a strong field the winner, by a country-mile, is Silent Night - everything: syrupy words, swooping tune, twee origin story, the lot. Just. Don't
Then, more-or-less in order:
When a child is born, especially sung by Johnny Mathis
Christmas (Baby please come home) - a monstrous offering from Darlene Love and Phil Spector that deserves it's own niche in hell.
O Holy Night - interminable trash, pure and simple.
The Little Drummer Boy - not even Bing and Bowie could redeem this.
Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer - sounds like it was written by a committee of 4 year olds, dim ones.
Honourable mentions for badness go to:
The Gustav Holst tune for In the bleak midwinter
Hark! The herald angels sing - angels are supposed to be ethereal spirits, the antithesis of this stodgy mess.
Holly Jolly Christmas - I like Michael Bublé but this is barely forgivable
Jingle Bells - even the Yale Glee Club can't persuade me.
Sid the Organist (aged 107)
And on top of all that, whenever I go carol singing with the choir we always get asked to sing it, usually by someone who is a bit pissed.
Apart from Hark the herald, which I quite like. Would you prefer it to the tune Maccabaeus, à la St Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin?
I don't think I've come across the Darlene Love/Phil Spector one, but I'll take your word for it!
ITTWACW!
Worse than four-year-olds - ad men for a department store 😱
O little town of Bethlehem, how still we see thee lie
Above thy deep and dreamless sleep the silent stars go by
‘Twas there I first saw sweet Molly Malone
As she wheeled her wheelbarrow
Through streets broad and narrow
Crying, "Holly and ivy, alive, alive O!"
But it's very popular with The Peaky Blinders.
And never mind the Little Drummer Boy. I always had my suspicions about 'Willie, take your little drum (pat-a-pan)', though old French carols at least have a bit of heritage to them!
In terms of secular songs, I hate the Mariah Carey 'All I want for Christmas' trash. It kind of stands for everything that's wrong with the Christmas season: loud, brash, insincere, loud, overdone, tasteless, loud, derivative, superficial - did I say 'loud'?
Enoch, you are so right, but you missed manipulative. It's so sickly sentimental - wallows in it. The only thing that could have made it worse was if the cat had been resurrected, and I say that as a lover of cats.
I read the comments section and it left me as cold as the song itself did.
So, yes,
There won't be snow in Africa this Christmastime
"Actually, there will be, in quite a few places."'
etc.
I can't remember his exact comment after singing the line "Tonight thank God it's them instead of you" but it was particularly scathing. I thought the commentary was a great addition to the performance.
Not a winter festival for all of us......
Most attempts to have season relevant carols have failed badly. Of those which haven't, most have failed very badly have failed very badly. An exception to prove the rule is John Wheeler's:
The north wind is tossing the leaves,
The red dust hangs over the town,
The sparrows are under the eaves
And the grass in the paddocks is brown.
As we lift up our voices and sing
To the Christ Child, our Heavenly King