IIRC, Hornby have made a J15 for some time now (I have one in BR black) - is this a new model, or the previous one upgraded?
A Great Eastern 2-4-0 would complement the J15 very nicely, so perhaps Rapido might think about it...you could suggest it to them, maybe?
The J15s seem to have mostly worked in former GER territory in their last years, including hauling six-wheeled coaches on the former Mid-Suffolk Light Railway. Like the E4s, they were small, but powerful (though they probably didn't have much in the way of steep gradients to contend with).
The J15s seem to have mostly worked in former GER territory in their last years, including hauling six-wheeled coaches on the former Mid-Suffolk Light Railway. Like the E4s, they were small, but powerful (though they probably didn't have much in the way of steep gradients to contend with).
I don't know ... the gradient on the Middy leaving Haughley was 1 in 42, and the line mostly followed the lie of the land. The gradient on the North Norfolk Railway through Kelling Heath is quite steep, too. So is Belstead Bank coming south on the main line from Ipswich.
It's not so much hilly as bumpy. And money for railway building was hard to come by, hence major earthworks are rare - the GE mainline is a very different beast from (say) the London and Southampton. https://www.railwaydata.co.uk/linefiles/route/?ELR=LTN1
The flattest area is the fen country north of Cambridge.
An E4 would be dangerous for those of us who know that they were what John Hadfield had in mind for the Earl of Flamborough’s locomotive in Love on a Branch Line…
It's not so much hilly as bumpy. And money for railway building was hard to come by, hence major earthworks are rare - the GE mainline is a very different beast from (say) the London and Southampton. https://www.railwaydata.co.uk/linefiles/route/?ELR=LTN1
The flattest area is the fen country north of Cambridge.
Yes, bumpy is a good description!
The J15s worked in that area, too, I think - or would that have been Great Northern territory? I'm afraid my knowledge of railway geography in that part of the world is sketchy, to say the least, and my handy atlas of pre-grouping lines isn't handy IYSWIM
Well, I stand corrected - suffering from the common misconception that the whole of East Anglia (with which I am largely unfamiliar) is Flat.
Which it ain't.
My constant refrain regarding my home island is "it's not flat it's low-lying".
Another good description!
BTW, Rails' ad for the blue J15 refers to it as a *highly anticipated new edition*, which implies that it's not a brand-new tooling, but an addition to the previous range of J15s.
It certainly looks stunning, and the original model (even in black) is very good (well, mine is). The price is not too silly by today's standards.
I'm tempted...Get thee behind me, Satan! My Suffix Border Railway has no need whatsoever for such a large engine, though I suppose our Greatly Elongated Railway offshoot might...
An E4 would be lovely. And I believe I could justify one on a train of air-braked GE horseboxes. (I am pretty sure there is a precedent.) You would need three chaps on the footplate, as there would undoubtedly have to be a conductor.
Of course, it would just be the small matter of procuring a reasonable number of GE horseboxes and a suitable brake vehicle.
The likely scenario would be a train from the Newmarket area. ISTR reference to such a train running to Manchester for the old Manchester (Salford) Racecourse.
The Great Eastern E4 2-4-0s were indeed entirely different from the LBSCR E4 0-6-2Ts...
...I think @betjemaniac is referring to the LBSCR's use of air brakes.
Indeed, to @Baptist Trainfan ’s point about dearth of air braked other railways in the south of England. Which is mostly true, but with one glaring (large) exception. And aside from the GER itself.
The late Bishop's Castle Railway was maybe the last concern to do without proper continuous brakes of any sort, so it didn't matter in what order passenger and goods vehicles were marshalled...
At one time, they had a few ex-LNWR coaches equipped with Webb's chain brake, which AIUI wasn't the most reliable brake ever invented. The BCR's lack of speed probably meant that this wasn't a problem.
Ah, the dear old Bishop's Castle Railway. So far ahead of its time. If you look at photos of its permanent way, circa 1935, it's just like the condition of the main line today.
I think I am right in saying that it spent almost its entire existence in receivership.
Bishop's Castle is a fascinating place and they have a small museum with many relics of the old line.
There is a story (possibly apocryphal) which relates that Colonel Stephens once thought of taking over the BCR (which was in Chancery for most of its life), and adding it to his empire. His assistant, W H Austen, reported that it was best not to touch the railway - they apparently chopped down a tree in the neighbouring woodland if they needed new sleepers...
My brother lives not far from Bishop's Castle, and it is indeed an interesting town. When I last visited it, though, some 20 years ago, it was plastered with UKIP posters.
Ah, the dear old Bishop's Castle Railway. So far ahead of its time. If you look at photos of its permanent way, circa 1935, it's just like the condition of the main line today.
I think I am right in saying that it spent almost its entire existence in receivership.
Bishop's Castle is a fascinating place and they have a small museum with many relics of the old line.
Ah, the dear old Bishop's Castle Railway. So far ahead of its time. If you look at photos of its permanent way, circa 1935, it's just like the condition of the main line today.
I think I am right in saying that it spent almost its entire existence in receivership.
Bishop's Castle is a fascinating place and they have a small museum with many relics of the old line.
There is a story (possibly apocryphal) which relates that Colonel Stephens once thought of taking over the BCR (which was in Chancery for most of its life), and adding it to his empire. His assistant, W H Austen, reported that it was best not to touch the railway - they apparently chopped down a tree in the neighbouring woodland if they needed new sleepers...
Dinorwic did that - one of the things I enjoyed looking at at the slate museum (quarry workshops) was a big reciprocating gang-saw used, so far as I remember, for turning tree trunks into sleepers.
There is a story (possibly apocryphal) which relates that Colonel Stephens once thought of taking over the BCR (which was in Chancery for most of its life), and adding it to his empire. His assistant, W H Austen, reported that it was best not to touch the railway - they apparently chopped down a tree in the neighbouring woodland if they needed new sleepers...
Dinorwic did that - one of the things I enjoyed looking at at the slate museum (quarry workshops) was a big reciprocating gang-saw used, so far as I remember, for turning tree trunks into sleepers.
Thanks @mark_in_manchester - I didn't know about the Dinorwic sleepers! Mind you, the Bishop's Castle Railway in the 1920s (which is roughly when Austen visited) was in a pretty parlous state all round. Stephens would have licked it into some sort of shape, no doubt, and, if it survived him (which it did - he died in 1931, and the BCR struggled on until 1935), Austen may well have tidied things up as he did on the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire, East Kent, and Kent & East Sussex lines.
Reverting to the former Great Eastern 0-6-0s of class Y14 (latterly known as J15s), the new Hornby model is receiving excellent reviews. It seems that some small adjustments have been made to the tooling of the earlier J15, with, of course, painting in glorious GER blue, but the price has been kept down to a very reasonable level. No doubt, people will snap these up quickly, or so Hornby hope!
Not much in the way of suitable rolling stock AFAICT, but Hornby's own generic 4-wheel and 6-wheel coaches were produced in GER livery, and (although simple, and not of any particular prototype vehicle) look the part.
Captain Parsley has an appointment with the Bank Manager tomorrow, to see if the Suffix Border Railway's overdraft can be extended in a Great Easterly direction.
I don't think the GER can have been as poor and indigent as some other railways - that glorious blue livery must have cost quite a bit to apply...
Our Town was at one time served by the impecunious London, Chatham & Dover Railway* (along with their arch-enemy, the South Eastern), and I gather that LCDR locomotives were painted plain black, with simple red lining, but were always kept clean and smart. The elaborate baroque livery introduced by the artistic and flamboyant Harry Wainwright, when the two railways joined forces, must have made the Chatham men's eyes water.
*Also known as the Blunder, Smash'em & Turnover, mostly by people who didn't like them, such as the South Eastern...
The "Chatham" had some wonderful locomotive names though: "Gorgon", "Sphynx", "Satyr", "Xanthus", "Amphitrite", "Bacchus", "Corsair" and "Brigand", for example. There were also a lot of Kentish place names and big cats. (There was a "Cerberus" but the North Western had one of those too, a "Precedent" or "Precursor" I believe. According to O.S. Nock, someone said of it, "See how it runs!").
Some of the early GWR names were rather good, as were I think Brighton and South Eastern ones. The "Tilbury" had the rather splendid "Thundersley" (still extant of course) which, rather disappointingly, turns out to be the name of a place in Essex.
Locomotive nomenclature in the early days is a fascinating rabbit-hole...
The Chatham had some fine names, including two 0-6-0s named Huz and Buz, but it was left to the South Eastern to have Gog and Magog (Bury 0-4-0s of 1843/44).
I was in error earlier re LCDR livery - the black with simple red lining was used for goods engines under Kirtley's regime, but passenger classes had blue-grey lining relieved by fine vermilion and yellow lines. Still quite restrained compared to Wainwright's psychedelic scheme. Kirtley's predecessor on the LCDR, W Martley, used varying shades of green on all his engines.
This post comes to you courtesy of D L Bradley's seminal works on locomotives of the Southern Railway and its predecessors - books well worth buying if you want Detail.
Oh... This could go on and on. The North British had some splendid engine names from Scottish literature, some of the best being "Wandering Willie" and "Jinglin' Geordie". The LNER followed right along with the D11s, and "Edie Ochiltree" is right now gazing down at me from a shelf asking to be run. What could be more splendid than the seven P2s, starting with the "Cock o' The North"? So much better than the current fashion that seems somewhat Russian, naming them after every workers' collective.
The LCDR's Kirtley was William (1840-1919), nephew of the Midland's Matthew (1813-1873), but some form of green was a common locomotive livery in the early days, and was often the 'stock' colour for engines bought off-the-peg, so to speak.
The Great Western, for much of its long life, got through a great number of names. I gather that, at one time, they were really scratching around for names of Granges, Manors, and Halls.
I recall one writer - Hamilton Ellis perhaps? - commenting that if the Great Western had lasted a lot longer you'd have been able to have one of their engines named after your garden shed.
Thinking of Kirtley ... of course in his day Midland Railway locomotives were green, the famous crimson lake not coming in until after his death.
The MR didn't go in for locomotive naming: I can think of only one, "Beatrice" ("Big Emma" doesn't count as that was a nickname).
I think a Midland single that was exhibited at an Exhibition in Paris carried the name Princess of Wales but do not know whether it retained it for the rest of its relatively short life.
Theoretically, I think some of what had once been Beatrice eventually survived through various rebuildings - eventually into a Midland 2P of the 483 class - until sometime in the 1950s. It had long since lost its name.
I think a Midland single that was exhibited at an Exhibition in Paris carried the name Princess of Wales but do not know whether it retained it for the rest of its relatively short life.
Yes, I thought there was another "namer" but couldn't recall it. You're right.
Aren't Class 66 diesels sometimes called "Sheds"? -not officially of course!
Thinking of GWR locos, wasn't the name "Earl of Berkeley" taken off the "Dukedog" and given to a "Castle" because the Earl objected?
Not that earl specifically - the story is that *some * earls did, so they were given to castles instead. I don’t think EoB ever actually carried the name in service, it was the name it was supposed to have.
The LCDR's Kirtley was William (1840-1919), nephew of the Midland's Matthew (1813-1873), but some form of green was a common locomotive livery in the early days, and was often the 'stock' colour for engines bought off-the-peg, so to speak.
The Great Western, for much of its long life, got through a great number of names. I gather that, at one time, they were really scratching around for names of Granges, Manors, and Halls.
They did, but they really only went totally off-piste with a couple. They managed to stay relatively appropriate by including places where they had at least running powers - so 1022 County of Northampton feels wrong but they did have 3 GW stations in the county*, and ‘Hinton Manor’ is ok because GW locomotives frequently made it to Woodford and Hinton.**
*off the top of my head, Kings Sutton, Aynho for Deddington and Aynho Park
There was an old gentleman named Albert Hall in the choir at The Tin Tabernacle Of My Youth, so any reference to the building, or to the locomotive, reminds me of him.
Comments
A Great Eastern 2-4-0 would complement the J15 very nicely, so perhaps Rapido might think about it...you could suggest it to them, maybe?
The J15s seem to have mostly worked in former GER territory in their last years, including hauling six-wheeled coaches on the former Mid-Suffolk Light Railway. Like the E4s, they were small, but powerful (though they probably didn't have much in the way of steep gradients to contend with).
Which it ain't.
The flattest area is the fen country north of Cambridge.
My constant refrain regarding my home island is "it's not flat it's low-lying".
Yes, bumpy is a good description!
The J15s worked in that area, too, I think - or would that have been Great Northern territory? I'm afraid my knowledge of railway geography in that part of the world is sketchy, to say the least, and my handy atlas of pre-grouping lines isn't handy IYSWIM
BTW, Rails' ad for the blue J15 refers to it as a *highly anticipated new edition*, which implies that it's not a brand-new tooling, but an addition to the previous range of J15s.
It certainly looks stunning, and the original model (even in black) is very good (well, mine is). The price is not too silly by today's standards.
https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news/hornbys-new-ger-class-y14-lner-j15-steam-loco-is-due-soon
I'm tempted...Get thee behind me, Satan! My Suffix Border Railway has no need whatsoever for such a large engine, though I suppose our Greatly Elongated Railway offshoot might...
Of course, it would just be the small matter of procuring a reasonable number of GE horseboxes and a suitable brake vehicle.
Rhymney Railway, Isle of Wight Railway - so not much chance of cross-pollination there.
LB&SCR pretty extensively from the 1870s though… some air braked terriers IIRC predate E4s by getting on for 20 years.
...I think @betjemaniac is referring to the LBSCR's use of air brakes.
Indeed, to @Baptist Trainfan ’s point about dearth of air braked other railways in the south of England. Which is mostly true, but with one glaring (large) exception. And aside from the GER itself.
At one time, they had a few ex-LNWR coaches equipped with Webb's chain brake, which AIUI wasn't the most reliable brake ever invented. The BCR's lack of speed probably meant that this wasn't a problem.
I think I am right in saying that it spent almost its entire existence in receivership.
Bishop's Castle is a fascinating place and they have a small museum with many relics of the old line.
There is a story (possibly apocryphal) which relates that Colonel Stephens once thought of taking over the BCR (which was in Chancery for most of its life), and adding it to his empire. His assistant, W H Austen, reported that it was best not to touch the railway - they apparently chopped down a tree in the neighbouring woodland if they needed new sleepers...
My brother lives not far from Bishop's Castle, and it is indeed an interesting town. When I last visited it, though, some 20 years ago, it was plastered with UKIP posters.
And a wonderful little brewery.
Thanks @mark_in_manchester - I didn't know about the Dinorwic sleepers! Mind you, the Bishop's Castle Railway in the 1920s (which is roughly when Austen visited) was in a pretty parlous state all round. Stephens would have licked it into some sort of shape, no doubt, and, if it survived him (which it did - he died in 1931, and the BCR struggled on until 1935), Austen may well have tidied things up as he did on the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire, East Kent, and Kent & East Sussex lines.
Not much in the way of suitable rolling stock AFAICT, but Hornby's own generic 4-wheel and 6-wheel coaches were produced in GER livery, and (although simple, and not of any particular prototype vehicle) look the part.
Captain Parsley has an appointment with the Bank Manager tomorrow, to see if the Suffix Border Railway's overdraft can be extended in a Great Easterly direction.
The Frank Bough of railways?
Our Town was at one time served by the impecunious London, Chatham & Dover Railway* (along with their arch-enemy, the South Eastern), and I gather that LCDR locomotives were painted plain black, with simple red lining, but were always kept clean and smart. The elaborate baroque livery introduced by the artistic and flamboyant Harry Wainwright, when the two railways joined forces, must have made the Chatham men's eyes water.
*Also known as the Blunder, Smash'em & Turnover, mostly by people who didn't like them, such as the South Eastern...
Some of the early GWR names were rather good, as were I think Brighton and South Eastern ones. The "Tilbury" had the rather splendid "Thundersley" (still extant of course) which, rather disappointingly, turns out to be the name of a place in Essex.
The Chatham had some fine names, including two 0-6-0s named Huz and Buz, but it was left to the South Eastern to have Gog and Magog (Bury 0-4-0s of 1843/44).
I was in error earlier re LCDR livery - the black with simple red lining was used for goods engines under Kirtley's regime, but passenger classes had blue-grey lining relieved by fine vermilion and yellow lines. Still quite restrained compared to Wainwright's psychedelic scheme. Kirtley's predecessor on the LCDR, W Martley, used varying shades of green on all his engines.
This post comes to you courtesy of D L Bradley's seminal works on locomotives of the Southern Railway and its predecessors - books well worth buying if you want Detail.
The MR didn't go in for locomotive naming: I can think of only one, "Beatrice" ("Big Emma" doesn't count as that was a nickname).
The Great Western, for much of its long life, got through a great number of names. I gather that, at one time, they were really scratching around for names of Granges, Manors, and Halls.
I don't think the GWR got to "Dotheboys Hall" though!
Thinking of GWR locos, wasn't the name "Earl of Berkeley" taken off the "Dukedog" and given to a "Castle" because the Earl objected?
Theoretically, I think some of what had once been Beatrice eventually survived through various rebuildings - eventually into a Midland 2P of the 483 class - until sometime in the 1950s. It had long since lost its name.
Not that earl specifically - the story is that *some * earls did, so they were given to castles instead. I don’t think EoB ever actually carried the name in service, it was the name it was supposed to have.
They did, but they really only went totally off-piste with a couple. They managed to stay relatively appropriate by including places where they had at least running powers - so 1022 County of Northampton feels wrong but they did have 3 GW stations in the county*, and ‘Hinton Manor’ is ok because GW locomotives frequently made it to Woodford and Hinton.**
*off the top of my head, Kings Sutton, Aynho for Deddington and Aynho Park
**modern-day Woodford Halse