I know I'll get through it, but is it a case of wait until time washes it away or conduct some kind of Closure Ceremony?
Or are these even the right questions to ask?
I think @Nick Tamen is right: there are no wrong questions. There are no right or wrong ways to feel. And if there is a smidgeon of bacon somewhere, could you simply trust that it will come to you in time, rather than you having to rummage through the turds?
I think a closure ceremony, or an action such as casting a pretty stone (perhaps with her name on it) into some deep water, can be helpful. It depends on the kind of person you are as to how that meaningful that could be. I did something similar some years ago with a hope I was cherishing. It doesn't mean things don't remain tender, even painful, but it kind of draws a line.
Sorry to keep on, but I feel as if I'm in a Club Sandwich made of Grief. A layer of Grief for my Late Wife, another layer of Grief for a Relationship that Never Was.
Perhaps be open to the possibility that the two sandwiches are connected; i.e that there's some part of you that's taking your bereavement with rather less equanimity than your conscious self, and this is why the latest loss feels like more.
Sure. Which is why I used the analogy of a club sandwich and not two separate ones.
I think you are right. I know I've not accepted my bereavement with complete equanimity even in my conscious self. Grief doesn't work like that. Even the 'Acceptance' stage, if we follow the 'Stages of Grief' model, doesn't mean we achieve a Zen-like level of dispassion about these things.
A bloke once told me how he'd lost his first wife when she was in her '30s. Even though he'd married again and had children with his second wife, a day hadn't gone by since his first wife died when he hadn't shed a tear.
It doesn't make the shit sandwich any easier to swallow. All that does is give me a greater understanding of the consistency of the turd that is before me.
I'm now wondering what practical use this insight or lesson the shit sandwich analogy provides. The layers are linked. Now what?
Chuck them in the bin?
Find proper nourishment?
Acknowledge it and find some way of disposing of the turd and the stale bread?
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Sure. I do that too. I'm sure it's natural and can help, but it can also 'reinforce' feelings of loneliness.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm always composing imaginary conversations in my head. It's how I think things through. I imagine myself talking to this, that or the other person - not always close friends or family or people I've had crushes on - but even people I don't encounter very often- depending on what the issue is.
Mrs Gamaliel wouldn't have wanted to trek into the rainforest looking for lemurs. But she'd have wanted to hear about the lemurs.
And she's not here to hear about them.
Sure, we hope and trust she's in a 'better place', but I'll still want to tell her about it.
There's no way around that. We just have to deal with it.
Whether or not our beloved dead can simply hear us, hear our thoughts, etc. “on their own” or not, you could ask God to pass it along to them. (I tend to think they can, but I’ve asked Him anyway.)
Kubler-Ross’ model was actually written for people dying and was only adapted later for grieving. Consequently, there is little evidence behind it as a grief model and even Kubler-Ross said she never intended it to be in a set process. People grieve in their own ways and some people find different models helpful. I teach models of grief and like the model Continuing Bonds, with the idea that grief is ongoing and you don’t get over people you have lost but instead maintain a relationship and sense of connection with them that evolves.
(I’m going to my brother in law’s funeral today, the second ‘sibling’ death in a year)
Kubler-Ross’ model was actually written for people dying and was only adapted later for grieving. Consequently, there is little evidence behind it as a grief model and even Kubler-Ross said she never intended it to be in a set process. People grieve in their own ways and some people find different models helpful. I teach models of grief and like the model Continuing Bonds, with the idea that grief is ongoing and you don’t get over people you have lost but instead maintain a relationship and sense of connection with them that evolves.
That is extremely helpful and fits well with my experience of grief. My brother died at 18, and will in November have been dead longer than he was alive. But neither his twin or I are in any sense "over" him. She carries her connection to him very much everywhere she goes and I probably too though less so. That model helps by sharing how that is perhaps right and healthy. One does get so tired of people who think grief should end and be neatly packaged. (In fact I actually shared a bit about the model with her in case she's interested too.)
Finally read through all this. Mixed emotions I must say.
HUGE amounts of empathy, I hope each and every one of you gets what you want.
I’m 43.
I’m enraged (sadly) that so many of you have been able to retire by earlier than 70 - what on earth is the world that those of you over about 70 have built and handed on??? I feel like Charlton Heston on the beach at the end of Planet of the Apes.
I won't be retiring at age 70. There are plenty of us out here.
I suppose my point is that there are people on these boards who are going to reminisce fondly about older relatives who got the post war settlement while wondering what we’re supposed to be happy about as the first generation to go backwards.
Oh God there’s a whole other page… massive MASSIVE apologies, I’ve really messed this up and can only apologise for the juxtaposition of what I’ve just written with many of the posts immediately before it. Not really any other way to say sorry for that so hopefully that will do
I'm 51. I worked out when I was about 22 that I would probably be 70 before I could afford to retire. My pension planning is taking that probability into account, and may yet cover the gap.
My mother took redundancy (with a reasonable payout) in her late 50s, but due to a lack of NI payments whilst looking after us 3 kids, she didn't get any pension at all till Dad had to retire almost 10 years later. She spent a lot of that time doing freelance work; which paid better than the salaried job had IIRC!
Oh God there’s a whole other page… massive MASSIVE apologies, I’ve really messed this up and can only apologise for the juxtaposition of what I’ve just written with many of the posts immediately before it. Not really any other way to say sorry for that so hopefully that will do
No need to apologise. I can only speak for myself but I'm not at all offended by your post.
Whether or not our beloved dead can simply hear us, hear our thoughts, etc. “on their own” or not, you could ask God to pass it along to them. (I tend to think they can, but I’ve asked Him anyway.)
So do I. My late husband once told me he asked God to tell his father that he was loved and missed. He said he heard someone say,"Your message has been delivered." He was not an overly religious man or one who had flights of fancy.
I'm just 58 and very grateful to have had today what by first accounts was a perfectly fine upper and lower GI scope (microscope stuff to come later). I've always expected to work till I drop, and this gives me hope that will be much farther into the future.
On the other hand, having just gotten my first arthritis pain in my fingers (I work as a writer), all is not entirely rosy on the horizon.
I do that. I also visit her grave and 'tell' her things. I'm Orthodox. We are less squeamish about this sort of thing.
I hasten to add that I don't expect replies or hold any truck with Spiritualism or necromancy.
Amen. I’ve had my own paranormal experiences and I’m okay with some things, but definitely not others. One of the big no-nos is definitely that. (I’m perfectly fine with loved ones or whomever dropping in to say hello, if God allows, but that’s more natural than me trying to force it to happen.)
I heard today that my Dad's last surviving sibling has died. I only met her about three times, and she was the sort who always had a face like a wet week, but I am certainly feeling the loss of the generation.
I know the feeling @Sandemaniac - I'd been feeling a bit glum about that too. Recently nephew and his partner had a new little one and it has helped a bit with that feeling, but not entirely gone.
Just a quick update folks. I'm feeling a lot happier and settled and also rather silly for allowing myself to get carried away and all upset.
But I'm not beating myself up about that. Still some slight aftershocks and tremors but things are settling down.
Thanks for all your concern thoughts and prayers.
Glad you are feeling more settled. It’s good not to beat yourself up too: just because your feelings weren’t reciprocated, that doesn’t mean that they were worthless. You have the capacity to love and that’s a fine thing.
I know how it feels. After a couple of decades with no romantic partner, I am OK with being by myself and I think I actually prefer it. Which is just as well! But there is still a jolt, sometimes, when some conversation - even a look or smile - leads to the dream-world of perhaps… and then after a while I laugh and carry on.
Good luck to you, and many kinds of love, in the days ahead.
Interesting thread with really thoughtful responses. I'm 58 and the State Pension in the UK doesn't kick in till 67 now, and clergy keep going till past 70 now for as full a pension benefit that may be possible. By the time I'm 67, they'll have bumped the age up another couple of years, no doubt, supposing there is any pension pot left.
I've been in my present parish several years and am beginning to feel some effects of administering to and performing funerals of people I've known for some time, who were relatively able and lively when I first knew them. My home communion/nursing home list is all but re-newed with new people, as the former folk have gone to glory. Even with a belief in some kind of after-life, sometimes it seems to be a lot of sadness and bereavement to be dealing with on a regular basis.
And on a personal level, the generation 'above' me in the family is all but gone. I'm next, in other words. I don't regret that I have no children of my own. I'm fairly close to nieces and nephews, but have an increasing feeling that I don't want to burden them with my old age problems, when they get worse. So I don't know where to go when I eventually do retire.
With osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis, my body often feels knackered and exhausted. I've lost a bit of timber, to relieve the knees that no longer have cartilage, which helps. And am still trying to lose weight for that purpose, as it undoubtedly makes life easier. Lots of my favourite foods are verboten because my digestive system is not to be depended upon. And my old capacities for alcohol are much reduced! Which is probably just as well.
I look at my big dog - 38 kgs of elderly increasing weakening bulk - and I think that when he goes, I shall never get another dog, because I probably won't be fit enough to care properly for the kind of dog I'd like to have. And life without a dog does not appeal.
I love my work, I love the people and the ministry here, the location, and being part of the life here. What a tremendous blessing and privilege it is. But I day-dream about retiring and sleeping a lot, reading a lot, and looking at the sea, before my body gives up altogether or I contract one of the many dementias that I have seen afflict so many of my former acquaintances - almost as a matter of course, it often seems.
Obviously from the perspective of 74, 58 seems like springtime, but the same insights apply. Not only is the generation ahead of you dying, but so are your contemporaries -and many younger.
The decimation of state care suggests you need children to support you in old age, which is not a guarantee - I think of Robert Frost on the subject.
My mom died in 1984 aged 61. Her breast cancer had returned. My Dad died in 1969 aged 47. His health had started to fail 10 years earlier due to work issues. He did not have the advantage of modern medicine. I am telling you this because I never expected to live to the age I am now because I have been overweight for about 40 years.
I am 77 in October and I would not be offended if anyone said I was a drain on the NHS due to all the prescription drugs I take every day. My wife's health is probably worse than mine.
I retired from full time work in 1996 and worked part time untill 2005. I played cricket till I was 48 and then umpired in League cricket for about 12 years. I was heavily involved in cricket adminstration untill I moved address in 2016.
In 2016 we moved 80 miles away to a bungalow in Sheffield to be near to my daughter and her husband who do look after us as best as they can. Financially, we have never been so well off but our health does not let us enjoy it.
Advice.....There are some illnesses that you can't avoid but don't assume that you are going to die young. Just try and keep fit so you can make the most of retirement.
Thank you and sorry to hear of your health problems. My dad died at 64 but my mother lived until 91. Both were smokers but did not die of smoking-related diseases. I am 70 and, apart from a cancer scare about 12 years ago, am fit and healthy, my weight is fine too. I've never been one for fitness but, since moving to Wales, have taken to regular swimming as it was free for over-60s. It isn't now but having to pay a monthly subscription does provide an incentive to do it! I also try to walk or use public transport whenever possible as that provides a bit more exercise.
My mom died in 1984 aged 61. Her breast cancer had returned. My Dad died in 1969 aged 47. His health had started to fail 10 years earlier due to work issues. He did not have the advantage of modern medicine. I am telling you this because I never expected to live to the age I am now because I have been overweight for about 40 years.
I am 77 in October and I would not be offended if anyone said I was a drain on the NHS due to all the prescription drugs I take every day. My wife's health is probably worse than mine.
I retired from full time work in 1996 and worked part time untill 2005. I played cricket till I was 48 and then umpired in League cricket for about 12 years. I was heavily involved in cricket adminstration untill I moved address in 2016.
In 2016 we moved 80 miles away to a bungalow in Sheffield to be near to my daughter and her husband who do look after us as best as they can. Financially, we have never been so well off but our health does not let us enjoy it.
Advice.....There are some illnesses that you can't avoid but don't assume that you are going to die young. Just try and keep fit so you can make the most of retirement.
Telford, something that helped me address my type II diabetes and my weight issues is Mounjaro. There are other GLP-1 meds out there. So far, I have lost 40 lbs. My blood sugar is below 100, and my blood pressure is usually 100/50.
Not sure what is available through NHIS, but you might want to check it out.
I am also taking a ton of medications. I am due to see my doctor in September. I think we will discuss reducing if not eliminating some of the dope I am taking.
I've never been one for fitness but, since moving to Wales, have taken to regular swimming as it was free for over-60s. It isn't now but having to pay a monthly subscription does provide an incentive to do it! I also try to walk or use public transport whenever possible as that provides a bit more exercise.
About 10 years ago I did go to a gym for people with heart problems. I could only manage 1 hour once or twice a week. It probably did help me a bit and I can't remember why I gave it up. Nearly 9 years ago I has a fall backward from the 3rd step up the stairs and hurt my back. This still prevents me from walking for more than a minute without the need to sit down.
My mom died in 1984 aged 61. Her breast cancer had returned. My Dad died in 1969 aged 47. His health had started to fail 10 years earlier due to work issues. He did not have the advantage of modern medicine. I am telling you this because I never expected to live to the age I am now because I have been overweight for about 40 years.
I am 77 in October and I would not be offended if anyone said I was a drain on the NHS due to all the prescription drugs I take every day. My wife's health is probably worse than mine.
I retired from full time work in 1996 and worked part time untill 2005. I played cricket till I was 48 and then umpired in League cricket for about 12 years. I was heavily involved in cricket adminstration untill I moved address in 2016.
In 2016 we moved 80 miles away to a bungalow in Sheffield to be near to my daughter and her husband who do look after us as best as they can. Financially, we have never been so well off but our health does not let us enjoy it.
Advice.....There are some illnesses that you can't avoid but don't assume that you are going to die young. Just try and keep fit so you can make the most of retirement.
Telford, something that helped me address my type II diabetes and my weight issues is Mounjaro. There are other GLP-1 meds out there. So far, I have lost 40 lbs. My blood sugar is below 100, and my blood pressure is usually 100/50.
Not sure what is available through NHIS, but you might want to check it out.
I am also taking a ton of medications. I am due to see my doctor in September. I think we will discuss reducing if not eliminating some of the dope I am taking.
I am told that my diabetes is under control and a couple of years ago I dropped one of my tablets. My cardiologist is loath to do anything invasive but keeps giving me more tablets
I’ve been pondering this a bit given that I reach my Superannuation pensionable age next year, but won’t have access to a government part pension for another 7 years. I don’t know how renting works for people in other countries, but the fastest age group of homeless people here is women over the age of 50 whose marriage or defacto relationship has broken down, my grandmother experienced some insecurity post the death of her husband which has made me a bit of a planner.
When I think about being retired I think about H’s – health, home, help and how much money do I need.
Health, we both have chronic health conditions. I note Gramps suggestion of Mounjaro but to get it privately here is very expensive and at present there are many medication shortages including Ozempic and the like as well as many others. I have been making lifestyle changes over the last 6 years but weight has not declined, I’m concentrating on not gaining more and eating as low GI as I can. I’m honestly not active enough, gardening and walking are my main two ways of moving and I’m happy to stick with those. For mental health husband and I will need to pursue our individual interests and maintain our friendships. We approach those differently, but that’s ok.
Re home, we made the decision to move about 6 years ago. We moved from a low energy rated home, to a better one in anticipation of retirement and spending more time at home. This home deliberately has no stairs. A friend who worked in aged care policy indicated there is a benefit in stairs for cardiac health and staving off dementia, but the husband has had one ankle fused and we decided we’d just have to take the risk and go for a single level home. I had not thought about bathroom access, but Mother in law on a zimmer frame had no issues at our place, so that’s an added bonus. The home gets a lot of natural light and that helps with feeling bright and cheery.
Help, means looking at outside services to assist us. We may in time be able to get some help with home cleaning and may seek someone privately to help with the garden. If it really becomes too much and we can’t keep up the home maintenance, we might need to look into moving to an apartment or downsizing to a smaller home and would look for one on the public transport route to enable travel once we can no longer drive. I would like to be closer to shops than we are currently but do enjoy being able to order supplies online and I hope this option remains to be something we can access.
How much money do I need? I’m not too concerned about this due to Superannuation which is a government policy established not long after we commenced work. Husband and I will receive a pension, but obviously, I don’t want the money to run out before I do! so I need to get some input about this from the staff at the fund. It may be that I can receive a top up government pension, known as a part pension, which also gives access to discounts on things like car registration and cheaper train fares and medications. I won’t be eligible for this for a number of years yet, so will see whether there are changes in government policy between now and then. I hated having to put money aside when the kids were young and money tight, but am now glad of it’s coming to fruition after 40 years.
I am not anticipating much help from kids, one wants to live overseas and the other needs additional support from us, so am hoping we can stay independent for as long as possible. I am due to son's illness used to my plan being, "the plan is, there is no plan", am aware of how life can change in an instant due to illness or injury and having to go with the flow. So any plan I make can just be ripped up and we make a new one!!
I’ve been pondering this a bit given that I reach my Superannuation pensionable age next year, but won’t have access to a government part pension for another 7 years. I don’t know how renting works for people in other countries, but the fastest age group of homeless people here is women over the age of 50 whose marriage or defacto relationship has broken down, my grandmother experienced some insecurity post the death of her husband which has made me a bit of a planner.
When I think about being retired I think about H’s – health, home, help and how much money do I need.
Health, we both have chronic health conditions. I note Gramps suggestion of Mounjaro but to get it privately here is very expensive and at present there are many medication shortages including Ozempic and the like as well as many others. I have been making lifestyle changes over the last 6 years but weight has not declined, I’m concentrating on not gaining more and eating as low GI as I can. I’m honestly not active enough, gardening and walking are my main two ways of moving and I’m happy to stick with those. For mental health husband and I will need to pursue our individual interests and maintain our friendships. We approach those differently, but that’s ok.
Re home, we made the decision to move about 6 years ago. We moved from a low energy rated home, to a better one in anticipation of retirement and spending more time at home. This home deliberately has no stairs. A friend who worked in aged care policy indicated there is a benefit in stairs for cardiac health and staving off dementia, but the husband has had one ankle fused and we decided we’d just have to take the risk and go for a single level home. I had not thought about bathroom access, but Mother in law on a zimmer frame had no issues at our place, so that’s an added bonus. The home gets a lot of natural light and that helps with feeling bright and cheery.
Help, means looking at outside services to assist us. We may in time be able to get some help with home cleaning and may seek someone privately to help with the garden. If it really becomes too much and we can’t keep up the home maintenance, we might need to look into moving to an apartment or downsizing to a smaller home and would look for one on the public transport route to enable travel once we can no longer drive. I would like to be closer to shops than we are currently but do enjoy being able to order supplies online and I hope this option remains to be something we can access.
How much money do I need? I’m not too concerned about this due to Superannuation which is a government policy established not long after we commenced work. Husband and I will receive a pension, but obviously, I don’t want the money to run out before I do! so I need to get some input about this from the staff at the fund. It may be that I can receive a top up government pension, known as a part pension, which also gives access to discounts on things like car registration and cheaper train fares and medications. I won’t be eligible for this for a number of years yet, so will see whether there are changes in government policy between now and then. I hated having to put money aside when the kids were young and money tight, but am now glad of it’s coming to fruition after 40 years.
I am not anticipating much help from kids, one wants to live overseas and the other needs additional support from us, so am hoping we can stay independent for as long as possible. I am due to son's illness used to my plan being, "the plan is, there is no plan", am aware of how life can change in an instant due to illness or injury and having to go with the flow. So any plan I make can just be ripped up and we make a new one!!
You are wise to plan but I am not qualified give advice on how much you need. 60 years ago I chose a job that would give me a good pension so I have never had to save. We have a garden which is far too big for us so we do have a gardener who visits twice a week in Spring, Summer and early Autumn. He mainly just cuts the grass but he does do bigger jobs in Spring and Autumn.
My daughter and her husband are better off than us but find time to help us with smaller jobs and the computers. We have a cleaner who visits for 3 hours every month and she gives the bungalow a really good clean.
Thanks @Telford, I've been watching the services that my mother in law, aunt and to a lesser extent, my Dad are or had been receiving. I think the biggest thing from my perspective, having a parent that didn't plan well, is to know what is around and how to access it before it's actually needed. Trying to manage a crisis and scramble for services if no good for anyone, particularly the person needing the service.
I don' t want to be as out of the loop information wise as my Dad was. I really detest dealing with government departments, but know that unfortunately it's a necessary evil! So I'd better start doing my homework now!
That is a good idea. Starting from scratch is hard especially in a crisis.
I am feeling really pleased as, following advice from me, a friend has made a successful claim for Pension Credit. With an increased income, she now feels able to dip into her savings to replace her shower, for example. She will also qualify for the Winter Fuel Allowance, which has recently become means-tested.
I have been staring at the utter incompatibility of me being in my seventies. However, there are increasing signs that my body is giving in to the idea.
In the United States certain GLP-1 medications have already been approved by Medicare and are, therefore, covered by insurance programs. As I had already said, I am not sure what is covered by the NHIS in GB, but it should be investigated.
Our last house move was planned as somewhere we could live indefinitely unless one or both of us needs to go into residential care. Access at the front is possible with a simple wedge ramp, there are no internal level changes, the stairs are a single straight flight which is wide enough for a stair lift if needed, and we’re about 10 minutes’ walk from a hospital. And a small railway station. The bus stop is 2 minutes away and the well-stocked corner shop is 5 minutes.
Having worked in social services for over 20 years, I have a good idea of what’s available - and also of what isn’t available, and what’s being heavily cut back. I’m fairly healthy for 58, but I’m aware that my dad and three of his four sisters had macular degeneration, as did my mum, which is a concern.
I keep thinking of the Jane Eyre quote, when Mr Brocklehurst asks Jane how she will avoid hell and her response is “I must keep in good health, and not die.”
Almost 86 here, the mind is fine, but the body is falling apart. I have several cronic health issues. Living alone but with help, that thankfully because of monthly gift of one of my sons, and his wife. I can afford. They pay for my House keeper twice a month, I pay for a home health aide twice a month.She takes me to hair dresser, bank and such as I no longer drive. We have a group of volunteers in our area who are reimbursed by State of California for gas miles, who will take you to medical appointments. I order my groceries on line for delivery. My other son visits me several times as month as he lives closer and does any handy man chores I need. He is also ready to come in any emergency, such as a hospital visit. I know I am very blessed to have help and able to live alone, I do miss my late husband, but I have great neighbors to visit with. We also look out for each other. I live in a senior mobile home park. I moved here 4 years ago selling our large family home, freeing up money by buying a mobile home and investing the rest. My one advice is move to your final home sooner rather than later. Packing and moving in your 80's is hard work.
Totally agree with this @Ruth and @Graven Image. I suspect my Dad had a brain injury from low oxygen during heart event as his subsequent behaviours were not rational. He indicated about 3 months before he died that he was interested in moving to a retirement village, he was way past that at the time and it sounds terrible but we just ignored him because he was not capable of organising that himself and I was really pushing things with my workplace taking so much time away to be with him. Moving him was not practical at that point. I could also truthfully see us getting part way through the process and him changing his mind, which I knew was going to be impossible. I've learnt a lot through watching his decline and in comparing him with his sister who made a move about 5 years ago to a retirement community with lots of events and support through making new friends. I don't know if it's a gendered thing, but she is doing so much better since the loss of her partner than Dad did.
So I am right on acting sooner rather than later and trying to think things through now while I've still got most of my marbles. I've mentally earmarked a couple of places that would be good for shops and public transport, but am not sure how the Cheery other half would feel about that. If he shuffles off before me, I'll be out of here quicker than you can say the proverbial!
We'd intended when we bought this place - our first joint property - to stay maybe 10 years. Thirty-four years later...
We have way too much stuff, and too much room to put it in. I barely manage to keep on top of the housework. But this is undoubtedly Peak House in terms of space, comfort, locality, amenity.
I suspect we will just keep on living here (probably with paid help eventually) until we're carried out.
Well, you certainly pulled that "rabbit" out of its hat for us!
Re NHS: yes, it's UK-wide, but it's also one of the issues devolved to the four nations. So here in Wales we have, unlike in England, free prescriptions for all and slightly lower dental charges (but even longer hospital waiting lists). I can't speak for Scotland except to say that it works out dental charges in a completely different way. I know nothing about NI.
Mind you, I've just got back from a 15 day trip to Madagascar.
That's certainly put my minor woes into perspective.
When I lived in Guinea-Bissau, West Africa, 40 years ago one of the doctors told me that they rarely saw cancers or age-related diseases because other illnesses generally led to people dying relatively young.
Comments
I think @Nick Tamen is right: there are no wrong questions. There are no right or wrong ways to feel. And if there is a smidgeon of bacon somewhere, could you simply trust that it will come to you in time, rather than you having to rummage through the turds?
I think a closure ceremony, or an action such as casting a pretty stone (perhaps with her name on it) into some deep water, can be helpful. It depends on the kind of person you are as to how that meaningful that could be. I did something similar some years ago with a hope I was cherishing. It doesn't mean things don't remain tender, even painful, but it kind of draws a line.
Perhaps be open to the possibility that the two sandwiches are connected; i.e that there's some part of you that's taking your bereavement with rather less equanimity than your conscious self, and this is why the latest loss feels like more.
I think you are right. I know I've not accepted my bereavement with complete equanimity even in my conscious self. Grief doesn't work like that. Even the 'Acceptance' stage, if we follow the 'Stages of Grief' model, doesn't mean we achieve a Zen-like level of dispassion about these things.
A bloke once told me how he'd lost his first wife when she was in her '30s. Even though he'd married again and had children with his second wife, a day hadn't gone by since his first wife died when he hadn't shed a tear.
It doesn't make the shit sandwich any easier to swallow. All that does is give me a greater understanding of the consistency of the turd that is before me.
I'm now wondering what practical use this insight or lesson the shit sandwich analogy provides. The layers are linked. Now what?
Chuck them in the bin?
Find proper nourishment?
Acknowledge it and find some way of disposing of the turd and the stale bread?
A loss is a loss is a loss.
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Whether or not our beloved dead can simply hear us, hear our thoughts, etc. “on their own” or not, you could ask God to pass it along to them. (I tend to think they can, but I’ve asked Him anyway.)
I hasten to add that I don't expect replies or hold any truck with Spiritualism or necromancy.
Kubler-Ross’ model was actually written for people dying and was only adapted later for grieving. Consequently, there is little evidence behind it as a grief model and even Kubler-Ross said she never intended it to be in a set process. People grieve in their own ways and some people find different models helpful. I teach models of grief and like the model Continuing Bonds, with the idea that grief is ongoing and you don’t get over people you have lost but instead maintain a relationship and sense of connection with them that evolves.
(I’m going to my brother in law’s funeral today, the second ‘sibling’ death in a year)
Yes, I don't take any of these 'models' in a prescriptive sense, whether this one, Fowler's Stages of Faith or whatever else.
But yes, I'd certainly respect your professional judgement on these things and appreciate your prayer and concern.
Peace be to all here.
That is extremely helpful and fits well with my experience of grief. My brother died at 18, and will in November have been dead longer than he was alive. But neither his twin or I are in any sense "over" him. She carries her connection to him very much everywhere she goes and I probably too though less so. That model helps by sharing how that is perhaps right and healthy. One does get so tired of people who think grief should end and be neatly packaged. (In fact I actually shared a bit about the model with her in case she's interested too.)
HUGE amounts of empathy, I hope each and every one of you gets what you want.
I’m 43.
I’m enraged (sadly) that so many of you have been able to retire by earlier than 70 - what on earth is the world that those of you over about 70 have built and handed on??? I feel like Charlton Heston on the beach at the end of Planet of the Apes.
I suppose my point is that there are people on these boards who are going to reminisce fondly about older relatives who got the post war settlement while wondering what we’re supposed to be happy about as the first generation to go backwards.
My mother took redundancy (with a reasonable payout) in her late 50s, but due to a lack of NI payments whilst looking after us 3 kids, she didn't get any pension at all till Dad had to retire almost 10 years later. She spent a lot of that time doing freelance work; which paid better than the salaried job had IIRC!
No need to apologise. I can only speak for myself but I'm not at all offended by your post.
So do I. My late husband once told me he asked God to tell his father that he was loved and missed. He said he heard someone say,"Your message has been delivered." He was not an overly religious man or one who had flights of fancy.
On the other hand, having just gotten my first arthritis pain in my fingers (I work as a writer), all is not entirely rosy on the horizon.
Amen. I’ve had my own paranormal experiences and I’m okay with some things, but definitely not others. One of the big no-nos is definitely that. (I’m perfectly fine with loved ones or whomever dropping in to say hello, if God allows, but that’s more natural than me trying to force it to happen.)
But I'm not beating myself up about that. Still some slight aftershocks and tremors but things are settling down.
Thanks for all your concern thoughts and prayers.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Glad you are feeling more settled. It’s good not to beat yourself up too: just because your feelings weren’t reciprocated, that doesn’t mean that they were worthless. You have the capacity to love and that’s a fine thing.
I know how it feels. After a couple of decades with no romantic partner, I am OK with being by myself and I think I actually prefer it. Which is just as well! But there is still a jolt, sometimes, when some conversation - even a look or smile - leads to the dream-world of perhaps… and then after a while I laugh and carry on.
Good luck to you, and many kinds of love, in the days ahead.
I don't think I'm completely out of the woods yet. Still some what if?s or perhaps ... but I imagine these will recede over time.
But I'm certainly in a better place than I was but there's no room for complacency and I still need to 'manage' my response when these thoughts occur.
Blessing on you.
I've been in my present parish several years and am beginning to feel some effects of administering to and performing funerals of people I've known for some time, who were relatively able and lively when I first knew them. My home communion/nursing home list is all but re-newed with new people, as the former folk have gone to glory. Even with a belief in some kind of after-life, sometimes it seems to be a lot of sadness and bereavement to be dealing with on a regular basis.
And on a personal level, the generation 'above' me in the family is all but gone. I'm next, in other words. I don't regret that I have no children of my own. I'm fairly close to nieces and nephews, but have an increasing feeling that I don't want to burden them with my old age problems, when they get worse. So I don't know where to go when I eventually do retire.
With osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis, my body often feels knackered and exhausted. I've lost a bit of timber, to relieve the knees that no longer have cartilage, which helps. And am still trying to lose weight for that purpose, as it undoubtedly makes life easier. Lots of my favourite foods are verboten because my digestive system is not to be depended upon. And my old capacities for alcohol are much reduced! Which is probably just as well.
I look at my big dog - 38 kgs of elderly increasing weakening bulk - and I think that when he goes, I shall never get another dog, because I probably won't be fit enough to care properly for the kind of dog I'd like to have. And life without a dog does not appeal.
I love my work, I love the people and the ministry here, the location, and being part of the life here. What a tremendous blessing and privilege it is. But I day-dream about retiring and sleeping a lot, reading a lot, and looking at the sea, before my body gives up altogether or I contract one of the many dementias that I have seen afflict so many of my former acquaintances - almost as a matter of course, it often seems.
The decimation of state care suggests you need children to support you in old age, which is not a guarantee - I think of Robert Frost on the subject.
I am 77 in October and I would not be offended if anyone said I was a drain on the NHS due to all the prescription drugs I take every day. My wife's health is probably worse than mine.
I retired from full time work in 1996 and worked part time untill 2005. I played cricket till I was 48 and then umpired in League cricket for about 12 years. I was heavily involved in cricket adminstration untill I moved address in 2016.
In 2016 we moved 80 miles away to a bungalow in Sheffield to be near to my daughter and her husband who do look after us as best as they can. Financially, we have never been so well off but our health does not let us enjoy it.
Advice.....There are some illnesses that you can't avoid but don't assume that you are going to die young. Just try and keep fit so you can make the most of retirement.
Eubie Blake
Telford, something that helped me address my type II diabetes and my weight issues is Mounjaro. There are other GLP-1 meds out there. So far, I have lost 40 lbs. My blood sugar is below 100, and my blood pressure is usually 100/50.
Not sure what is available through NHIS, but you might want to check it out.
I am also taking a ton of medications. I am due to see my doctor in September. I think we will discuss reducing if not eliminating some of the dope I am taking.
I am told that my diabetes is under control and a couple of years ago I dropped one of my tablets. My cardiologist is loath to do anything invasive but keeps giving me more tablets
When I think about being retired I think about H’s – health, home, help and how much money do I need.
Health, we both have chronic health conditions. I note Gramps suggestion of Mounjaro but to get it privately here is very expensive and at present there are many medication shortages including Ozempic and the like as well as many others. I have been making lifestyle changes over the last 6 years but weight has not declined, I’m concentrating on not gaining more and eating as low GI as I can. I’m honestly not active enough, gardening and walking are my main two ways of moving and I’m happy to stick with those. For mental health husband and I will need to pursue our individual interests and maintain our friendships. We approach those differently, but that’s ok.
Re home, we made the decision to move about 6 years ago. We moved from a low energy rated home, to a better one in anticipation of retirement and spending more time at home. This home deliberately has no stairs. A friend who worked in aged care policy indicated there is a benefit in stairs for cardiac health and staving off dementia, but the husband has had one ankle fused and we decided we’d just have to take the risk and go for a single level home. I had not thought about bathroom access, but Mother in law on a zimmer frame had no issues at our place, so that’s an added bonus. The home gets a lot of natural light and that helps with feeling bright and cheery.
Help, means looking at outside services to assist us. We may in time be able to get some help with home cleaning and may seek someone privately to help with the garden. If it really becomes too much and we can’t keep up the home maintenance, we might need to look into moving to an apartment or downsizing to a smaller home and would look for one on the public transport route to enable travel once we can no longer drive. I would like to be closer to shops than we are currently but do enjoy being able to order supplies online and I hope this option remains to be something we can access.
How much money do I need? I’m not too concerned about this due to Superannuation which is a government policy established not long after we commenced work. Husband and I will receive a pension, but obviously, I don’t want the money to run out before I do! so I need to get some input about this from the staff at the fund. It may be that I can receive a top up government pension, known as a part pension, which also gives access to discounts on things like car registration and cheaper train fares and medications. I won’t be eligible for this for a number of years yet, so will see whether there are changes in government policy between now and then. I hated having to put money aside when the kids were young and money tight, but am now glad of it’s coming to fruition after 40 years.
I am not anticipating much help from kids, one wants to live overseas and the other needs additional support from us, so am hoping we can stay independent for as long as possible. I am due to son's illness used to my plan being, "the plan is, there is no plan", am aware of how life can change in an instant due to illness or injury and having to go with the flow. So any plan I make can just be ripped up and we make a new one!!
You are wise to plan but I am not qualified give advice on how much you need. 60 years ago I chose a job that would give me a good pension so I have never had to save. We have a garden which is far too big for us so we do have a gardener who visits twice a week in Spring, Summer and early Autumn. He mainly just cuts the grass but he does do bigger jobs in Spring and Autumn.
My daughter and her husband are better off than us but find time to help us with smaller jobs and the computers. We have a cleaner who visits for 3 hours every month and she gives the bungalow a really good clean.
I don' t want to be as out of the loop information wise as my Dad was. I really detest dealing with government departments, but know that unfortunately it's a necessary evil! So I'd better start doing my homework now!
I am feeling really pleased as, following advice from me, a friend has made a successful claim for Pension Credit. With an increased income, she now feels able to dip into her savings to replace her shower, for example. She will also qualify for the Winter Fuel Allowance, which has recently become means-tested.
Having worked in social services for over 20 years, I have a good idea of what’s available - and also of what isn’t available, and what’s being heavily cut back. I’m fairly healthy for 58, but I’m aware that my dad and three of his four sisters had macular degeneration, as did my mum, which is a concern.
I keep thinking of the Jane Eyre quote, when Mr Brocklehurst asks Jane how she will avoid hell and her response is “I must keep in good health, and not die.”
So I am right on acting sooner rather than later and trying to think things through now while I've still got most of my marbles. I've mentally earmarked a couple of places that would be good for shops and public transport, but am not sure how the Cheery other half would feel about that. If he shuffles off before me, I'll be out of here quicker than you can say the proverbial!
We have way too much stuff, and too much room to put it in. I barely manage to keep on top of the housework. But this is undoubtedly Peak House in terms of space, comfort, locality, amenity.
I suspect we will just keep on living here (probably with paid help eventually) until we're carried out.
We are the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.'
GB is the largest island in the archipelago, the one where England, Scotland and Wales rub shoulders.
But moving on ... all this health or ill-health talk is sobering.
I'm still a pretty healthy 63, but have no idea how long that will continue of course.
So far, my 'issues' have been emotional ones - bereavement etc.
I'm not sure how I'd handle ill-health alongside that but I'm bound to start wearing out eventually.
My sympathy towards all those, like @Telford and others who have hitherto led active and quite sporty lives but who now find themselves constrained.
That's certainly put my minor woes into perspective.
Re NHS: yes, it's UK-wide, but it's also one of the issues devolved to the four nations. So here in Wales we have, unlike in England, free prescriptions for all and slightly lower dental charges (but even longer hospital waiting lists). I can't speak for Scotland except to say that it works out dental charges in a completely different way. I know nothing about NI.
When I lived in Guinea-Bissau, West Africa, 40 years ago one of the doctors told me that they rarely saw cancers or age-related diseases because other illnesses generally led to people dying relatively young.