The loss of the sound of "r" after a vowel and before another consonant in the middle of a word is common in spoken English. This linguistic idiosyncrasy has given our language a few new words, such as cuss from curse, bust from burst, and our featured word passel from parcel. The spelling passel originated in the 15th century, but the word's use as a collective noun for an indefinite number is a 19th-century Americanism. It was common primarily in local-color writing before getting a boost in the 1940s, when it began appearing in popular weekly magazines such as Time, Newsweek, and Saturday Review.
As an aside about 'luggage' my partner (Hungarian/Romanian) is the only person I know who uses a plural for it, as in 'bring the luggages' etc. (Her use of plurals in general is a little idiosyncratic though, as she might say 'bring me that trouser' etc for words that are always plural normally.)
This isn't about luggage OR baggage but in Canada, apparently the French speaking folks say "percussions" instead of just percussion when talking about drum sets and other percussion instruments. I was watching a video from Cirque Du Soleil, discussing the preparations for "Dralion", a Cirque show from the mid 1990's. One of the musical directors kept mentioning all the "percussions". I guess that's a French thing as I have heard percussion instruments, collectively called percussion. Interesting. The RE-percussions are unthinkable! I'll get my coat...
I have recently been catching up with Donna Leon's Venetian novels featuring Comissario Brunetti, recommended by a former Bishop here as the only detective stories he knew of containing recipes. I have noticed how frequently in casual speech between the characters the first word is omitted completely, as in 'You like a coffee?' This grates on the British ear - we would say 'Would you like a coffee?' or 'D'you (do you) want a coffee?' It sounds brusque to me. Donna Leon is American, of course, recounting a conversation supposedly between Italian police officers. Presumably this is regular usage in the US rather than in Italy. Would any American shipmate care to comment?
It sounds brusque to me. Donna Leon is American, of course, recounting a conversation supposedly between Italian police officers. Presumably this is regular usage in the US rather than in Italy. Would any American shipmate care to comment?
It sounds like a usage I have heard in native speakers of Italian with imperfect English. I think I've heard it in native speakers of other romance languages, but I know I've heard it from Italians. It is not a use I have heard in native speakers of American English.
This American has never heard “You like a coffee?” in normal speech. I rarely hear anyone refer to “a coffee.” It’s just “coffee” or “some coffee.”
“You like coffee?” would mean “Do you like coffee?” “Would you like some coffee?” would be “You want coffee?,” “Want some coffee” or “Like some coffee?”
My thought as well. I've never heard "Like a coffee?" but often "Want a coffee?" Although that would imply the speaker was going to treat. If not it would be worded "Wanna go get a coffee?"
I rarely hear anyone refer to “a coffee.” It’s just “coffee” or “some coffee.”
Even if they're talking about purchasing it from a coffee shop? "I'm just gonna go grab a coffee on the way to work," or "I'm getting a coffee, you want one?" sounds very natural to me -- but then I am Canadian not American.
I came across this column about how archaic some phrases and words have become in our language. It is a good laugh.
A number of years ago, two Shipmates came here for a visit. (Chukovsky and Mad Ferret.) During the course of some of our conversations, Chukovsky told me that my English was very archaic! Well, to tell the truth, some of my friends have mentioned that to me, but not in so many words!
I came across this column about how archaic some phrases and words have become in our language. It is a good laugh.
From UK,
'Staples', to mean basic foodstuffs, flour, rice etc I'd regard as normal, distinguished from the paper-joiners by context.
'Britches', used here specifically of trousers specifically for riding a horse in.
'Gallivant', used only mockingly.
'Smitten', used here only normally to mean attracted romantically to someone.
'Swell', means to grow fatter or of the sea as to how rough it is. Referring to someone as 'a swell' is definitely archaic. 'Swell' as in 'Wouldn’t it be swell to know someone like that?' we'd hear as an Americanism.
'Slacks', slightly old-fashioned word for women's trousers only. NB 'pants' does not mean trousers in the UK but underwear.
'the wrath of the whoop-de-doo', never heard that one. Likewise, 'more money than Quaker has oats', 'getting all fizzed up', and 'as independent as a hog on ice'. Mind, we don't use 'hog' much here, but I've never heard of a pig on ice either.
I rarely hear anyone refer to “a coffee.” It’s just “coffee” or “some coffee.” “I'm just gonna go grab a coffee on the way to work,” or “I'm getting a coffee, you want one?” sounds very natural to me -- but then I am Canadian not American.
Even if they're talking about purchasing it from a coffee shop? "
Yes. Maybe elsewhere in America it’d be “a coffee,” but here I just hear “I’m just gonna go grab some coffee,” or “I’m getting coffee, you want any?”
"Swell" as an adjective expressing approval is very dated. It is dated to the 1950s at the most recent, I believe.
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Do Brits say "Pardon my French" when they say something naughty?
"Swell" as an adjective expressing approval is very dated. It is dated to the 1950s at the most recent, I believe.
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Do Brits say "Pardon my French" when they say something naughty?
I think that that usage of swell here dates back to the 20's at least, perhaps more. Swell was used as a description of an over-smart man, usually young often with a moderately perjorative overtone. That usage goes back to the 1890's or so.
"Swell" as an adjective expressing approval is very dated. It is dated to the 1950s at the most recent, I believe.
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Do Brits say "Pardon my French" when they say something naughty?
I think that that usage of swell here dates back to the 20's at least, perhaps more. Swell was used as a description of an over-smart man, usually young often with a moderately perjorative overtone. That usage goes back to the 1890's or so.
We we have a no earlier than and a no later than. Looks like we've pinned it.
I've quickly skimmed some of Banjo Paterson's poems online, but can't find "swell" in there - I thought it was in The Man from Ironbark, but it's not. Paterson was writing from the 1890's.
I’d say ‘britches’ strikes me as a US spelling with the UK version being ‘breeches’. In older literature, a boy moving from nursery clothing to more grown up wear might be said to be ‘breeched’.
"Swell" as an adjective expressing approval is very dated. It is dated to the 1950s at the most recent, I believe.
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Do Brits say "Pardon my French" when they say something naughty?
Casserole. I came across a difference of meaning while trying to find the best setting for reheating one in the microwave. To me, a casserole is very like a stew, but cooked in the oven or a slow cooker (like Piglet's beef one for tonight) instead of on the hob. But all the ones I found online were not like that. A few sites advised slicing it before reheating, which implies a totally different texture. Another referred to the problem with the topping not being at its best, and there were pictures of casseroles with what looked like grated cheese or breadcrumbs on top.
So I'm wondering if this is a pond difference.
I came across this column about how archaic some phrases and words have become in our language. It is a good laugh.
From UK,
'Gallivant', used only mockingly.
I use "gallivant" with no tone, mocking or otherwise. I'd use it to mean going somewhere new, interesting and fun. Going somewhere with a suggestion of exploring or discovering. In my case, gallivanting might involve an exhibition, or historical attraction.
'Off gallivanting' would have an overtone of disapproval in my upbringing. It suggested the gallivanter was engaged careless enjoyment to the neglect of serious employment.
Some other odd differences of meaning, syntax and usage I've noticed over the last few years and which it's easy not to pick up on:-
1. USEnglish, 'River' follows the name, e.g. the Jordan River; BrEnglish it precedes the name or is omitted altogether e.g just, the Jordan or the River Jordan. I think Australia follows US usage on this. The reason may be that rivers here already had their names before anyone spoke English, whereas in the US and Australia, rivers were discovered and then named. So in BrEnglish 'River' is an adjective and the name is a noun, but in USEnglish the name is an adjective and 'River' is a noun.
2. USEnglish 'named' takes 'for', e.g. 'she was named for her mother's sister'; BrEnglish 'named' takes 'after' e.g. 'she was named after her mother's sister'.
3. USEnglish 'ship' (verb) used to mean send e.g. in adverts, 'shipping now'; BrEnglish 'ship' (verb) has, until influenced by international internet sites, meant specifically 'send by boat'.
4. BrEnglish uses the verb tense formed with 'have' much more than USEnglish. There was a discussion a few years ago about this on the Ship. The computer message 'did you forget your password?' in BrEnglish would be 'have you forgotten your password?'. 'Did you forget?' here refers to something that has happened in the past, even if very recent past like an hour ago. 'Have you forgotten?' refers to something that has happened and is still happening.
5. This one and the next come from Bible translations that have been anglicised using a spelling-checker but not read by a native BrEnglish speaker. USEnglish 'immorality' means specifically sexual misconduct. BrEnglish 'immorality' is more general and includes anything that is morally wrong, e.g. theft, dishonesty.
6. The curious expression a 'bushel-basket'. BrEnglish doesn't use that. A 'basket' is a shopping basket or any other sort of container made of straw. A 'bushel' is an obsolete measure of volume, 8 UK gallons.
7. Finally, in BrEnglish 'twice' and 'fortnight' are the normal words a person would say. I get the impression, but USians may want to correct me on this, that in USEnglish they sound a bit quaint and one would normally say 'two times' and 'two weeks'. On this, I've also picked up that Australians don't refer to fractions, a half, a third, a quarter, a fifth, three eighths etc as readily as we do, but have no idea whether the same applies to USians.
"Swell" as an adjective expressing approval is very dated. It is dated to the 1950s at the most recent, I believe.
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Do Brits say "Pardon my French" when they say something naughty?
Not heard ‘’ Pardon my French’ since the 70’s. Even then only by women of a certain age.
Certainly affected, but not slightly archaic - very archaic is closer to the mark. I don't think I've heard it for over 40 years in ordinary speech.
I've heard several people say "Pardon my French" to "excuse" their use of a mildly rude word. Whether it's common or not depends on the attitude to swearing in the circles in which you move.
@Enoch: I get a lot of confused looks when I use the word "fortnight" here. It's about as current in the US as "sennight" in the UK. I hear Americans use "twice", but few people say "thrice".
Americans talk about fractions a lot. There are "quarter dollar" and "half dollar" coins (although only the quarters are in routine use), musical notes are called "quarter notes" and "eighth notes" rather than "crotchets" and "quavers", drill bits, nuts and bolts are all sized in fractions (I have a 5/16 wrench in my pocket at the moment, as it happens) and so on.
Americans talk about fractions a lot. There are "quarter dollar" and "half dollar" coins (although only the quarters are in routine use), musical notes are called "quarter notes" and "eighth notes" rather than "crotchets" and "quavers", drill bits, nuts and bolts are all sized in fractions (I have a 5/16 wrench in my pocket at the moment, as it happens) and so on.
I think that although Brits may frequently refer to fractions of half, and quarter in general usage, the smaller fractions less so.
Probably due to our complex relationship with continental Europe, which uses metric measurement. UK uses metric measurement increasingly for practical purposes, but still has cultural affinity with Imperial measurements.
Some other odd differences of meaning, syntax and usage I've noticed over the last few years and which it's easy not to pick up on:-
. . .
2. USEnglish 'named' takes 'for', e.g. 'she was named for her mother's sister'; BrEnglish 'named' takes 'after' e.g. 'she was named after her mother's sister'.
I hear "named for" and "named after" interchangeably in the America South.
3. USEnglish 'ship' (verb) used to mean send e.g. in adverts, 'shipping now'; BrEnglish 'ship' (verb) has, until influenced by international internet sites, meant specifically 'send by boat'.
Yes as to "ship" meaning "send" in the case of ordered merchandise. And of course, we wouldn't say "advert." It's an "advertisement" or an "ad."
5. This one and the next come from Bible translations that have been anglicised using a spelling-checker but not read by a native BrEnglish speaker. USEnglish 'immorality' means specifically sexual misconduct. BrEnglish 'immorality' is more general and includes anything that is morally wrong, e.g. theft, dishonesty.
It is not the case in my experience that "immorality" is used in America only to mean sexual immorality.
6. The curious expression a 'bushel-basket'. BrEnglish doesn't use that. A 'basket' is a shopping basket or any other sort of container made of straw. A 'bushel' is an obsolete measure of volume, 8 UK gallons.
I'm not sure how you've heard "bushel basket" used, but a "bushel basket" is simply a basket that holds a bushel in volume.
7. Finally, in BrEnglish 'twice' and 'fortnight' are the normal words a person would say. I get the impression, but USians may want to correct me on this, that in USEnglish they sound a bit quaint and one would normally say 'two times' and 'two weeks'.
As @Leorning Cniht says, you're right as to "fortnight." That sounds quintessentially British to American ears. But there's nothing at all unusual or quaint sounding here about "twice." I hear it all the time. Again as Leorning Cnihy says, it's "thrice" that sounds quaint; "three times" would be used instead.
Casserole. I came across a difference of meaning while trying to find the best setting for reheating one in the microwave. To me, a casserole is very like a stew, but cooked in the oven or a slow cooker (like Piglet's beef one for tonight) instead of on the hob. But all the ones I found online were not like that. A few sites advised slicing it before reheating, which implies a totally different texture. Another referred to the problem with the topping not being at its best, and there were pictures of casseroles with what looked like grated cheese or breadcrumbs on top.
So I'm wondering if this is a pond difference.
In the US, a casserole is a baked dish (so not cooked in a slow cooker) usually containing meat or some other protein, chopped vegetables and usually pasta, egg noodles, potatoes or some other starch, with a sauce or binder. Often there is a crunchy/breadcruimby or cheesy topping. (The tuna casserole of my youth was always topped with potato chips/crisps.)
A casserole can function as a one-dish meal or as a side dish. In many parts of the country, casseroles, especially those made with ingredients like cream of mushroom soup, are staples of church potlucks. I know lots of Americans who don't think Thanksgiving dinner is complete without green bean casserole.
Most casseroles I can think of are served with a spoon, but there are some—lasagna comes to mind—that can be sliced.
Some other odd differences of meaning, syntax and usage I've noticed over the last few years and which it's easy not to pick up on:-
2. USEnglish 'named' takes 'for', e.g. 'she was named for her mother's sister'; BrEnglish 'named' takes 'after' e.g. 'she was named after her mother's sister'.
5. BrEnglish uses the verb tense formed with 'have' much more than USEnglish. There was a discussion a few years ago about this on the Ship. The computer message 'did you forget your password?' in BrEnglish would be 'have you forgotten your password?'. 'Did you forget?' here refers to something that has happened in the past, even if very recent past like an hour ago. 'Have you forgotten?' refers to something that has happened and is still happening.
We have the same distinction. However, there is a tendency in computer interfaces to (pardon me) "dumb down" language and grammar for the sake of people who are semi-literate or English-as-a-second-language. Thus the simple past instead of the perfect tense.
6. This one and the next come from Bible translations that have been anglicised using a spelling-checker but not read by a native BrEnglish speaker. USEnglish 'immorality' means specifically sexual misconduct. BrEnglish 'immorality' is more general and includes anything that is morally wrong, e.g. theft, dishonesty.
This is also true in the U.S., but people often hunt for euphemisms for anything about sex--and those who are prissy about saying "adultery," "incest," "rape," "fornication," or event he word "sexual" (!) seize on "immorality" to cover the lot. Which then confuses their hearers into thinking that sexual sin is the only and proper meaning of the word "immorality."
7. The curious expression a 'bushel-basket'. BrEnglish doesn't use that. A 'basket' is a shopping basket or any other sort of container made of straw. A 'bushel' is an obsolete measure of volume, 8 UK gallons.
AFAIK we don't have those around in common usage, at least anymore. I always took it to be a farming reference.
8. Finally, in BrEnglish 'twice' and 'fortnight' are the normal words a person would say. I get the impression, but USians may want to correct me on this, that in USEnglish they sound a bit quaint and one would normally say 'two times' and 'two weeks'. On this, I've also picked up that Australians don't refer to fractions, a half, a third, a quarter, a fifth, three eighths etc as readily as we do, but have no idea whether the same applies to USians.
We certainly use fractions, and "twice" is a normal and completely un-noteworthy word. You won't hear "fortnight," though, unless it's in reference to the game.
1. USEnglish, 'River' follows the name, e.g. the Jordan River; BrEnglish it precedes the name or is omitted altogether e.g just, the Jordan or the River Jordan. I think Australia follows US usage on this. The reason may be that rivers here already had their names before anyone spoke English, whereas in the US and Australia, rivers were discovered and then named. So in BrEnglish 'River' is an adjective and the name is a noun, but in USEnglish the name is an adjective and 'River' is a noun.
I don't think that's quite right. 'Jordan' would usually be seen as qualifying 'River' to distinguish it from other rivers. But both words are nouns as in e.g. Senator Pelosi, or President Washington.
4. BrEnglish uses the verb tense formed with 'have' much more than USEnglish. There was a discussion a few years ago about this on the Ship. The computer message 'did you forget your password?' in BrEnglish would be 'have you forgotten your password?'. 'Did you forget?' here refers to something that has happened in the past, even if very recent past like an hour ago. 'Have you forgotten?' refers to something that has happened and is still happening.
To me the difference between the two usages is that 'have you forgotten your password?' implies that you still can't remember it. Whereas 'did you forget…' allows for the possibility that the state no longer continues. E.g. 'I had trouble logging in on my laptop.' 'Did you forget your password?' 'Yes, that was the problem, then I remembered I had changed it to grandmother's maiden name.'
5. This one and the next come from Bible translations that have been anglicised using a spelling-checker but not read by a native BrEnglish speaker. USEnglish 'immorality' means specifically sexual misconduct. BrEnglish 'immorality' is more general and includes anything that is morally wrong, e.g. theft, dishonesty.
In British English, too, 'immorality is sometimes used euphemistically for specifically sexual immorality.
6. The curious expression a 'bushel-basket'. BrEnglish doesn't use that. A 'basket' is a shopping basket or any other sort of container made of straw. A 'bushel' is an obsolete measure of volume, 8 UK gallons.
I had always assumed that bushel-basket was a translational attempt to clarify for the contemporary reader what kind of thing a bushel might be. It has not been used as a normal unit of measure or as measuring device in Britain for decades now. I agree the 'normal' British usage would be just to refer to a bushel, and the phrase about 'not hiding your light under a bushel' persists even when people no longer remember the source or what a bushel is.
I had always assumed that bushel-basket was a translational attempt to clarify for the contemporary reader what kind of thing a bushel might be. It has not been used as a normal unit of measure or as measuring device in Britain for decades now. I agree the 'normal' British usage would be just to refer to a bushel, and the phrase about 'not hiding your light under a bushel' persists even when people no longer remember the source or what a bushel is.
There's a pick-you-own-apples orchard near me which sells apples by the bushel and the peck. One colleague (an older gentleman) grows various sorts of fruit, and talks about how many bushels he's picked.
Thanks Nick - and it makes it much clearer when applied to folks taking round a casserole to a person temporarily not able to feed themself properly. The stew type would not travel well. Potatoes would generally be the only starch component here, along with meat and other vegetables, but possibly not always present.
I have recently been catching up with Donna Leon's Venetian novels featuring Comissario Brunetti, recommended by a former Bishop here as the only detective stories he knew of containing recipes. I have noticed how frequently in casual speech between the characters the first word is omitted completely, as in 'You like a coffee?' This grates on the British ear - we would say 'Would you like a coffee?' or 'D'you (do you) want a coffee?' It sounds brusque to me. Donna Leon is American, of course, recounting a conversation supposedly between Italian police officers. Presumably this is regular usage in the US rather than in Italy. Would any American shipmate care to comment?
(Just catching up.)
I don't know Italian but I know a little Spanish. In Spanish the pronoun is often part of the verb in usual speech such as in Quiere una quesadilla? (Do you want a quesadilla?). If you say Usted quiere una quesadilla? the Usted for You emphasizes that I'm trying to be clarify something- perhaps I didn't know if I understood correctly or maybe I'm ordering for more people so maybe she wants it or he wants it.
Sorry that I don't know how to code for the opening Spanish question mark.
I would never describe something with pasta in as a casserole, let alone lasagne as a casserole.
The tuna casserole sounds like what I would calla tuna bake, including cheese or crumbly topping. Baked pasta is usually a ‘bake’ here in the UK.
I generally wouldn’t describe lasagna as a casserole either, but it meets the definition, at least as “casserole” is used here.
Meanwhile, I’d certainly refer to chicken tetrazzini—which I’ve invariably had with the pasta baked in, not with the chicken and sauce over pasta—as a casserole.
"Casserole" in my experience means baked moist thingy with several ingredients, often layered, normally heavy on starch, suitable to be taken to a church potluck in and reheated. Being an actual soup or soupy stew will disqualify it (possibly because the liquid is so easy to spill). Soups and stews may also be taken to potlucks, but must--absolutely MUST, it's de rigeur--come in a crockpot. No real pots, even if there is a stove.
@Enoch Your thing about rivers sounds reasonable. However, there is one notable exception in the UK: the Welsh (so original British) for river is Afon, pronounced Avon. Yes, it is the river river 🤣
"Casserole" in my experience means baked moist thingy with several ingredients, often layered, normally heavy on starch, suitable to be taken to a church potluck in and reheated.
I have it on good authority that Lutherans in Minnesota call that "hot dish".
Some other odd differences of meaning, syntax and usage I've noticed over the last few years and which it's easy not to pick up on:-
1. USEnglish, 'River' follows the name, e.g. the Jordan River; BrEnglish it precedes the name or is omitted altogether e.g just, the Jordan or the River Jordan. I think Australia follows US usage on this. The reason may be that rivers here already had their names before anyone spoke English, whereas in the US and Australia, rivers were discovered and then named. So in BrEnglish 'River' is an adjective and the name is a noun, but in USEnglish the name is an adjective and 'River' is a noun.
7. Finally, in BrEnglish 'twice' and 'fortnight' are the normal words a person would say. I get the impression, but USians may want to correct me on this, that in USEnglish they sound a bit quaint and one would normally say 'two times' and 'two weeks'. On this, I've also picked up that Australians don't refer to fractions, a half, a third, a quarter, a fifth, three eighths etc as readily as we do, but have no idea whether the same applies to USians.
"River" can either precede or follow. It would be more common to refer to the River Jordan than the Jordan River, but for most others it usually follows. 4 main rivers in suburban Sydney and in each case "River" would follow. It sounds odd for it to precede. Then you get to the Murray and the Darling where it can precede or follow, or commonly be omitted - in giving river heights in radio programmes directed to country interests (and that's perhaps dating the practice), it would be usual to give the height for "the Murray" at Mildura, or "the Murrumbidgee" at Balranald. For most other inland rivers, "river" would follow - eg Macquarie River. In any event, the words together make a noun.
Your phrase about the rivers being "discovered" in that simple form is just plain wrong. I assume that you mean "discovered by Europeans". The rivers were discovered millenia ago by the first inhabitants.
As far as I am aware, it's common to refer to "a half, quarter, third etc". I would rarely have heard of "three-eighths" but more likely "a bit under half" or "a bit over a quarter".
@Enoch Your thing about rivers sounds reasonable. However, there is one notable exception in the UK: the Welsh (so original British) for river is Afon, pronounced Avon. Yes, it is the river river 🤣
I thought of including an aside on that, but then thought it was too much of a digression.
I've always imagined the reason is the same as with what used to be called Lake Nyasa in Africa. It's now Lake Malaŵi. Nyasa is the word for lake in the local language. Everyone has assumed that the explorer - possibly Dr Livingstone - who first found it, pointed at it and asked a bearer, 'What's that?' . The bearer replied 'a lake', i.e. Nyasa. The explorer assumed that was its name. So that's what it became in English. The Anglo-Saxons heard people referring to various local rivers as the river i.e. 'avon' and so that was what they called them.
I've quickly skimmed some of Banjo Paterson's poems online, but can't find "swell" in there - I thought it was in The Man from Ironbark, but it's not. Paterson was writing from the 1890's.
It appears to date back as far as James Hardy Vaux's 1812 A New and Comprehensive Dictionary of the Flash Language where the definition appears as:
SWELL: a gentleman; but any well-dressed person is emphatically termed a
swell, or a rank swell. A family man who appears to have plenty of money,
and makes a genteel figure, is said by his associates to be in swell
street. Any thing remarkable for its beauty or elegance, is called a
swell article; so a swell crib, is a genteel house; a swell mollisher, an
elegantly-dressed woman, etc. Sometimes, in alluding to a particular
gentleman, whose name is not requisite, he is styled, the swell, meaning
the person who is the object of your discourse, or attention; and whether
he is called the swell, the cove, or the gory, is immaterial, as in the
following (in addition to many other) examples: I was turned up at
China-street, because the swell would not appear; meaning, of course, the
prosecutor: again, speaking of a person whom you were on the point of
robbing, but who has taken the alarm, and is therefore on his guard, you
will say to your pall, It's of no use, the cove is as down as a hammer;
or, We may as well stow it, the gory's leary. See COVE and DOWN.
"Casserole" in my experience means baked moist thingy with several ingredients, often layered, normally heavy on starch, suitable to be taken to a church potluck in and reheated.
I have it on good authority that Lutherans in Minnesota call that "hot dish".
So I'm told!
I'm looking forward to being brainwashed re-educated when LL has got himself thoroughly indoctrinated up there.
Comments
Source Merriam Webster online Dictionary
And, known use of the word in literature from the 1500s
This isn't about luggage OR baggage but in Canada, apparently the French speaking folks say "percussions" instead of just percussion when talking about drum sets and other percussion instruments. I was watching a video from Cirque Du Soleil, discussing the preparations for "Dralion", a Cirque show from the mid 1990's. One of the musical directors kept mentioning all the "percussions". I guess that's a French thing as I have heard percussion instruments, collectively called percussion. Interesting. The RE-percussions are unthinkable! I'll get my coat...
It sounds like a usage I have heard in native speakers of Italian with imperfect English. I think I've heard it in native speakers of other romance languages, but I know I've heard it from Italians. It is not a use I have heard in native speakers of American English.
This American has never heard “You like a coffee?” in normal speech. I rarely hear anyone refer to “a coffee.” It’s just “coffee” or “some coffee.”
“You like coffee?” would mean “Do you like coffee?” “Would you like some coffee?” would be “You want coffee?,” “Want some coffee” or “Like some coffee?”
My thought as well. I've never heard "Like a coffee?" but often "Want a coffee?" Although that would imply the speaker was going to treat. If not it would be worded "Wanna go get a coffee?"
Even if they're talking about purchasing it from a coffee shop? "I'm just gonna go grab a coffee on the way to work," or "I'm getting a coffee, you want one?" sounds very natural to me -- but then I am Canadian not American.
A number of years ago, two Shipmates came here for a visit. (Chukovsky and Mad Ferret.) During the course of some of our conversations, Chukovsky told me that my English was very archaic! Well, to tell the truth, some of my friends have mentioned that to me, but not in so many words!
'Staples', to mean basic foodstuffs, flour, rice etc I'd regard as normal, distinguished from the paper-joiners by context.
'Britches', used here specifically of trousers specifically for riding a horse in.
'Gallivant', used only mockingly.
'Smitten', used here only normally to mean attracted romantically to someone.
'Swell', means to grow fatter or of the sea as to how rough it is. Referring to someone as 'a swell' is definitely archaic. 'Swell' as in 'Wouldn’t it be swell to know someone like that?' we'd hear as an Americanism.
'Slacks', slightly old-fashioned word for women's trousers only. NB 'pants' does not mean trousers in the UK but underwear.
'the wrath of the whoop-de-doo', never heard that one. Likewise, 'more money than Quaker has oats', 'getting all fizzed up', and 'as independent as a hog on ice'. Mind, we don't use 'hog' much here, but I've never heard of a pig on ice either.
Or in the phrase "too big for his britches". Or breeks, as my Scots Granny would have it.
Thank you. I suspected that was the case.
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Do Brits say "Pardon my French" when they say something naughty?
I think that that usage of swell here dates back to the 20's at least, perhaps more. Swell was used as a description of an over-smart man, usually young often with a moderately perjorative overtone. That usage goes back to the 1890's or so.
We we have a no earlier than and a no later than. Looks like we've pinned it.
It's current but fairly uncommon.
So I'm wondering if this is a pond difference.
I use "gallivant" with no tone, mocking or otherwise. I'd use it to mean going somewhere new, interesting and fun. Going somewhere with a suggestion of exploring or discovering. In my case, gallivanting might involve an exhibition, or historical attraction.
only a pig in clover? As in "happy as a .."
1. USEnglish, 'River' follows the name, e.g. the Jordan River; BrEnglish it precedes the name or is omitted altogether e.g just, the Jordan or the River Jordan. I think Australia follows US usage on this. The reason may be that rivers here already had their names before anyone spoke English, whereas in the US and Australia, rivers were discovered and then named. So in BrEnglish 'River' is an adjective and the name is a noun, but in USEnglish the name is an adjective and 'River' is a noun.
2. USEnglish 'named' takes 'for', e.g. 'she was named for her mother's sister'; BrEnglish 'named' takes 'after' e.g. 'she was named after her mother's sister'.
3. USEnglish 'ship' (verb) used to mean send e.g. in adverts, 'shipping now'; BrEnglish 'ship' (verb) has, until influenced by international internet sites, meant specifically 'send by boat'.
4. BrEnglish uses the verb tense formed with 'have' much more than USEnglish. There was a discussion a few years ago about this on the Ship. The computer message 'did you forget your password?' in BrEnglish would be 'have you forgotten your password?'. 'Did you forget?' here refers to something that has happened in the past, even if very recent past like an hour ago. 'Have you forgotten?' refers to something that has happened and is still happening.
5. This one and the next come from Bible translations that have been anglicised using a spelling-checker but not read by a native BrEnglish speaker. USEnglish 'immorality' means specifically sexual misconduct. BrEnglish 'immorality' is more general and includes anything that is morally wrong, e.g. theft, dishonesty.
6. The curious expression a 'bushel-basket'. BrEnglish doesn't use that. A 'basket' is a shopping basket or any other sort of container made of straw. A 'bushel' is an obsolete measure of volume, 8 UK gallons.
7. Finally, in BrEnglish 'twice' and 'fortnight' are the normal words a person would say. I get the impression, but USians may want to correct me on this, that in USEnglish they sound a bit quaint and one would normally say 'two times' and 'two weeks'. On this, I've also picked up that Australians don't refer to fractions, a half, a third, a quarter, a fifth, three eighths etc as readily as we do, but have no idea whether the same applies to USians.
Not heard ‘’ Pardon my French’ since the 70’s. Even then only by women of a certain age.
“ Well love a duck”. I think they had no idea it was a euphemism.
I've heard several people say "Pardon my French" to "excuse" their use of a mildly rude word. Whether it's common or not depends on the attitude to swearing in the circles in which you move.
@Enoch: I get a lot of confused looks when I use the word "fortnight" here. It's about as current in the US as "sennight" in the UK. I hear Americans use "twice", but few people say "thrice".
Americans talk about fractions a lot. There are "quarter dollar" and "half dollar" coins (although only the quarters are in routine use), musical notes are called "quarter notes" and "eighth notes" rather than "crotchets" and "quavers", drill bits, nuts and bolts are all sized in fractions (I have a 5/16 wrench in my pocket at the moment, as it happens) and so on.
Yes as to "ship" meaning "send" in the case of ordered merchandise. And of course, we wouldn't say "advert." It's an "advertisement" or an "ad."
It is not the case in my experience that "immorality" is used in America only to mean sexual immorality.
I'm not sure how you've heard "bushel basket" used, but a "bushel basket" is simply a basket that holds a bushel in volume.
As @Leorning Cniht says, you're right as to "fortnight." That sounds quintessentially British to American ears. But there's nothing at all unusual or quaint sounding here about "twice." I hear it all the time. Again as Leorning Cnihy says, it's "thrice" that sounds quaint; "three times" would be used instead.
In the US, a casserole is a baked dish (so not cooked in a slow cooker) usually containing meat or some other protein, chopped vegetables and usually pasta, egg noodles, potatoes or some other starch, with a sauce or binder. Often there is a crunchy/breadcruimby or cheesy topping. (The tuna casserole of my youth was always topped with potato chips/crisps.)
A casserole can function as a one-dish meal or as a side dish. In many parts of the country, casseroles, especially those made with ingredients like cream of mushroom soup, are staples of church potlucks. I know lots of Americans who don't think Thanksgiving dinner is complete without green bean casserole.
Most casseroles I can think of are served with a spoon, but there are some—lasagna comes to mind—that can be sliced.
We actually use both forms.
We have the same distinction. However, there is a tendency in computer interfaces to (pardon me) "dumb down" language and grammar for the sake of people who are semi-literate or English-as-a-second-language. Thus the simple past instead of the perfect tense.
This is also true in the U.S., but people often hunt for euphemisms for anything about sex--and those who are prissy about saying "adultery," "incest," "rape," "fornication," or event he word "sexual" (!) seize on "immorality" to cover the lot. Which then confuses their hearers into thinking that sexual sin is the only and proper meaning of the word "immorality."
AFAIK we don't have those around in common usage, at least anymore. I always took it to be a farming reference.
We certainly use fractions, and "twice" is a normal and completely un-noteworthy word. You won't hear "fortnight," though, unless it's in reference to the game.
I don't think that's quite right. 'Jordan' would usually be seen as qualifying 'River' to distinguish it from other rivers. But both words are nouns as in e.g. Senator Pelosi, or President Washington.
To me the difference between the two usages is that 'have you forgotten your password?' implies that you still can't remember it. Whereas 'did you forget…' allows for the possibility that the state no longer continues. E.g. 'I had trouble logging in on my laptop.' 'Did you forget your password?' 'Yes, that was the problem, then I remembered I had changed it to grandmother's maiden name.'
In British English, too, 'immorality is sometimes used euphemistically for specifically sexual immorality.
I had always assumed that bushel-basket was a translational attempt to clarify for the contemporary reader what kind of thing a bushel might be. It has not been used as a normal unit of measure or as measuring device in Britain for decades now. I agree the 'normal' British usage would be just to refer to a bushel, and the phrase about 'not hiding your light under a bushel' persists even when people no longer remember the source or what a bushel is.
There's a pick-you-own-apples orchard near me which sells apples by the bushel and the peck. One colleague (an older gentleman) grows various sorts of fruit, and talks about how many bushels he's picked.
(Just catching up.)
I don't know Italian but I know a little Spanish. In Spanish the pronoun is often part of the verb in usual speech such as in Quiere una quesadilla? (Do you want a quesadilla?). If you say Usted quiere una quesadilla? the Usted for You emphasizes that I'm trying to be clarify something- perhaps I didn't know if I understood correctly or maybe I'm ordering for more people so maybe she wants it or he wants it.
Sorry that I don't know how to code for the opening Spanish question mark.
The tuna casserole sounds like what I would calla tuna bake, including cheese or crumbly topping. Baked pasta is usually a ‘bake’ here in the UK.
Meanwhile, I’d certainly refer to chicken tetrazzini—which I’ve invariably had with the pasta baked in, not with the chicken and sauce over pasta—as a casserole.
I have it on good authority that Lutherans in Minnesota call that "hot dish".
"River" can either precede or follow. It would be more common to refer to the River Jordan than the Jordan River, but for most others it usually follows. 4 main rivers in suburban Sydney and in each case "River" would follow. It sounds odd for it to precede. Then you get to the Murray and the Darling where it can precede or follow, or commonly be omitted - in giving river heights in radio programmes directed to country interests (and that's perhaps dating the practice), it would be usual to give the height for "the Murray" at Mildura, or "the Murrumbidgee" at Balranald. For most other inland rivers, "river" would follow - eg Macquarie River. In any event, the words together make a noun.
Your phrase about the rivers being "discovered" in that simple form is just plain wrong. I assume that you mean "discovered by Europeans". The rivers were discovered millenia ago by the first inhabitants.
As far as I am aware, it's common to refer to "a half, quarter, third etc". I would rarely have heard of "three-eighths" but more likely "a bit under half" or "a bit over a quarter".
I've always imagined the reason is the same as with what used to be called Lake Nyasa in Africa. It's now Lake Malaŵi. Nyasa is the word for lake in the local language. Everyone has assumed that the explorer - possibly Dr Livingstone - who first found it, pointed at it and asked a bearer, 'What's that?' . The bearer replied 'a lake', i.e. Nyasa. The explorer assumed that was its name. So that's what it became in English. The Anglo-Saxons heard people referring to various local rivers as the river i.e. 'avon' and so that was what they called them.
It appears to date back as far as James Hardy Vaux's 1812 A New and Comprehensive Dictionary of the Flash Language where the definition appears as:
SWELL: a gentleman; but any well-dressed person is emphatically termed a
swell, or a rank swell. A family man who appears to have plenty of money,
and makes a genteel figure, is said by his associates to be in swell
street. Any thing remarkable for its beauty or elegance, is called a
swell article; so a swell crib, is a genteel house; a swell mollisher, an
elegantly-dressed woman, etc. Sometimes, in alluding to a particular
gentleman, whose name is not requisite, he is styled, the swell, meaning
the person who is the object of your discourse, or attention; and whether
he is called the swell, the cove, or the gory, is immaterial, as in the
following (in addition to many other) examples: I was turned up at
China-street, because the swell would not appear; meaning, of course, the
prosecutor: again, speaking of a person whom you were on the point of
robbing, but who has taken the alarm, and is therefore on his guard, you
will say to your pall, It's of no use, the cove is as down as a hammer;
or, We may as well stow it, the gory's leary. See COVE and DOWN.
So I'm told!
I'm looking forward to being brainwashed re-educated when LL has got himself thoroughly indoctrinated up there.