O well - whatever lights your candle. To me, Kendrick's stuff is dross, but I appreciate that others may like it.
Had I been at Our Place yesterday, I would have tottered out at the highest speed possible immediately after Communion...
We only sing Shine Jesus and Meekness and Majesty.
We keep the latter for the entrance on Maundy Thursday because it references the foot washing that is part of our liturgy. I rather like it TBH. But I would happily never sing/play the other one again. We even repeat the chorus at the end with clapping and a capella until half way through when te instruments come crashing in.
I was struck down with ¥e Plague this week so don't know what was had here. I availed myself of the SEC's offering from St John's, Princes Street, which was MOTR choral eucharist. The choir seemed accomplished and sang a newly composed mass setting and a motet composed by their DoM.
Small World Moment - the composer's mum is our rector.
We’ve returned home after a weekend away, attending the Ordination Mass and the Mass of Thanksgiving of the son of friends.
The Ordination Mass was Saturday; five ordinands to the priesthood, and by our estimate 1,200+ in attendance. The music was phenomenally good. The church where the Mass was held had very good acoustics for music (not as good for speaking voices, I’m afraid). The choir from the cathedral sang, and along with the organ there was brass, tympani and (effectively used) cymbals. The congregation sang with gusto. The hymns were:
“Lord, You Give the Great Commission”/ABBOT’S LEIGH
“All People that on Earth Do Dwell”/OLD HUNDREDTH
“O God Beyond All Praising”/THAXTED
“All People . . .” was Vaughan-Williams’ “mess-up” written for Elizabeth II’s coronation. I’ll admit to having enjoyed there being a good metrical psalm sung to a Genevan psalm tune at the offertory.
And I think I’ve said here before that I really don’t like THAXTED as a hymn tune; it loses the beauty and energy of the “Jupiter, the Bringer of Jollity” when accommodations have to be made for a reasonable singing range. The brass and percussion did their best to make up for that problem, however, and my wife thought it was particularly beautiful.
The Mass of Thanksgiving (his first Mass) was yesterday (Sunday) afternoon. Maybe 300+ were present, and again the music and the congregational singing were very good. The hymns were:
“Creator Spirit, by Whose Aid”/LASST UNS ERFREUEN Veni, Sancte Spiritus
“Oh Spirit, All-Embracing”/THAXTED (yes, again)
“Draw Us In the Spirit’s Tether/UNION SEMINARY Salve Regina
“Holy God, We Praise Thy Name”/GROßER GOTT, WIR LOBEN DICH
In both services, the choirs sang additional music—Tallis and Arcadelt, among others, made appearances—during the laying on of hands, fraternal kiss and Communion.
“All People . . .” was Vaughan-Williams’ “mess-up” written for Elizabeth II’s coronation. I’ll admit to having enjoyed there being a good metrical psalm sung to a Genevan psalm tune at the offertory.
I love it, bit (as I'm sure you'd agree) it has to be done with panache!
I really don’t like THAXTED as a hymn tune; it loses the beauty and energy of the “Jupiter, the Bringer of Jollity” when accommodations have to be made for a reasonable singing range.
You're not alone - at least you were Praising God rather than Vowing to your Country.
The tune is OK-ish (although I agree with @Nick Tamen that it's best kept in its proper place), but it's forever tainted by association with that awful Tosh I vow to thee, my country...
The tune is OK-ish (although I agree with @Nick Tamen that it's best kept in its proper place), but it's forever tainted by association with that awful Tosh I vow to thee, my country...
The original in The Planets is very fine indeed. The problem with the hymn tune is that it shifts bits of the tune down an octave to make it singable - a bit like re-arranging the features on the Mona Lisa. It is completely beyond the pale.
The original in The Planets is very fine indeed. The problem with the hymn tune is that it shifts bits of the tune down an octave to make it singable - a bit like re-arranging the features on the Mona Lisa. It is completely beyond the pale.
The tune is OK-ish (although I agree with @Nick Tamen that it's best kept in its proper place), but it's forever tainted by association with that awful Tosh I vow to thee, my country...
At least on this side of The Pond, that’s not a problem; “I Vow to Thee, My Country” is known here only by the kinds of people who spend too much time on a vessel like the Ship, or who are zealous Anglophiles to the point of obsession. The problem with the tune here is that which @Alan29 mentioned. The brass were doing their best to overcome that problem by not shifting down an octave, and it did help.
The tune is OK-ish (although I agree with @Nick Tamen that it's best kept in its proper place), but it's forever tainted by association with that awful Tosh I vow to thee, my country...
The original in The Planets is very fine indeed. The problem with the hymn tune is that it shifts bits of the tune down an octave to make it singable - a bit like re-arranging the features on the Mona Lisa. It is completely beyond the pale.
I don't think I quite realised that, not being either a musician or a singer!
Man, I'm just full of unpopular opinions...I like THAXTED, dangit !
I do agree it can be a bit unwieldy given the range of the tune, but I think, if arranged properly, it can be really well done. The trick, I think, is to think of it as being only inspired by the melody from Jupiter so as to not be disappointed by the differences.
Man, I'm just full of unpopular opinions...I like THAXTED, dangit !
I do agree it can be a bit unwieldy given the range of the tune, but I think, if arranged properly, it can be really well done. The trick, I think, is to think of it as being only inspired by the melody from Jupiter so as to not be disappointed by the differences.
... “All People . . .” was Vaughan-Williams’ “mess-up” ...
What do you mean, "mess-up"?!? That was David's favourite hymn, and what I came up the aisle to when we got married.
Re: Thaxted (the place rather than the tune) - I once gave David a book called The Field Guide to the English Country Parson, which was basically a mini-biography of slightly barmy vicars, of whom a disproportionate number seemed to have served in Thaxted.
... “All People . . .” was Vaughan-Williams’ “mess-up” ...
What do you mean, "mess-up"?!? That was David's favourite hymn, and what I came up the aisle to when we got married.
I mean that Vaughan Williams thought it a shame that there was nothing for the congregation to sing at the coronation, so he said to William McKee, the Organist and Master of Choristers of Westminster Abbey, “If you can persuade the Archbishop to have a hymn in the Coronation service, I’ll make a mess-up of ‘Old Hundredth.’” So I was quoting RVW.
Yes, I definitely love "All People..." as well as most of RVW's efforts, of course.
It seems to be a frequent choice for the first hymn in hymnals, I've noticed. It was also one of our school hymns at the parochial Lutheran school I attended, so has nostalgia there, too.
Yes, I definitely love "All People..." as well as most of RVW's efforts, of course.
It seems to be a frequent choice for the first hymn in hymnals, I've noticed.
Not for Methodists, at least United Methodists. That honor always goes to “O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing.” (Not necessarily all 18 original verses, though.)
Never heard of that last one but, yes, of course you're right.
However most hymnbooks aren't simply alphabetical, but only alphabetical within categories. Hence "Angel voices" fits into (say) "Worship and praise" while the two you mention come later, under (say) "Christian experience".
Of course the CofS book starts with metrical psalms!
Never heard of that last one but, yes, of course you're right.
However most hymnbooks aren't simply alphabetical, but only alphabetical within categories. Hence "Angel voices" fits into (say) "Worship and praise" while the two you mention come later, under (say) "Christian experience".
Of course the CofS book starts with metrical psalms!
Well, strictly speaking it's Psalms in general as of CH4, not just metrical ones - the third entry is Psalm 5 pointed for Anglican chant (I think), and the eighth is John Bell getting creative with antiphons around a chant version of Psalm 15.
You have caught me out - I didn't bother to look at the book!
I remember the old Metrical Psalms book, with the pages divided half-way down so that the tunes could be matched to the music.
I think CH3 (or possibly CH2) maintained that tradition for the Psalm section. I presume it also came in useful for playing a suitably Presbyterian (dour) version of One song to the tune of another.
... “All People . . .” was Vaughan-Williams’ “mess-up” ...
What do you mean, "mess-up"?!? That was David's favourite hymn, and what I came up the aisle to when we got married.
I mean that Vaughan Williams thought it a shame that there was nothing for the congregation to sing at the coronation, so he said to William McKee, the Organist and Master of Choristers of Westminster Abbey, “If you can persuade the Archbishop to have a hymn in the Coronation service, I’ll make a mess-up of ‘Old Hundredth.’” So I was quoting RVW.
You have caught me out - I didn't bother to look at the book!
I remember the old Metrical Psalms book, with the pages divided half-way down so that the tunes could be matched to the music.
I think CH3 (or possibly CH2) maintained that tradition for the Psalm section. I presume it also came in useful for playing a suitably Presbyterian (dour) version of One song to the tune of another
I used to be a Presbyterian* - we're not all dour!
True, although there are quite a few Common Metre tunes that warm the cockles of my little Scottish heart.
Whenever David and I were driving through certain bits of Scotland, the place names on some of the road signs would make us spontaneously burst into song - Kilmarnock, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Caithness, Stracathro ...
Man, I'm just full of unpopular opinions...I like THAXTED, dangit !
I do agree it can be a bit unwieldy given the range of the tune, but I think, if arranged properly, it can be really well done. The trick, I think, is to think of it as being only inspired by the melody from Jupiter so as to not be disappointed by the differences.
It could be worse. Anyone remember Kiri Te Kanawa singing 'World in Union' for the Rugby World Cup? Same tune, different timing.
My Spy is away tomorrow, so here's the Plan for Trinity Sunday hymns at Our Place:
Holy, holy, holy! Lord God almighty (Nicaea) Bright the vision that delighted (Laus Deo) Our Father (traditional Caribbean) Immortal, invisible, God only wise (St Denio) I, the Lord of sea and sky (Here I am)
Only three songs this morning as it was monthly communion (shifted from the usual third week to avoid a clash with Pentecost). No pianist so we sang a cappella
Love Divine (Blaenwern)
As the Deer Pants for the Water (Nystrom)
Crown Him with Many Crowns (Diademata)
Trinity Sunday - sadly no Paddy's Bra, but mostly not a bad selection otherwise:
Holy, holy, holy - Nicaea Father of heaven, whose love profound - Rievaulx Holy Spirit, come, confirm us - Laus Deo O Lord my God, when I in awesome wonder - How Great Thou Art* God of love, you freely give us - Blaenwern
We were rather a select bunch this morning - I'm not sure whether it was because tomorrow's a bank holiday and people are Away, or because it was pishing with rain ...
* I could very easily live without that one, but the congregation seemed to be giving it welly.
“Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!” - Nicaea (a bit too fast!)
“Be still, for the presence of the Lord”.
“There is a Redeemer”.
“At your feet we fall”.
“Bright the vision that delighted” - Laud Deo.
“God is in his temple” - Groningen.
Holy Holy Holy Lord God Almighty
Venite in full
Psalm 119 vv 105-144. would it ever end!
Te Deum
Benedictus
Now wait for this ...the Athanasian Creed sung to Anglican chant. The one in the (old) Cathedral Psalter was an awfully dull single chant and for 41 verses, no less, you need a double and a 'bright' one imho. They agreed but it was still as dreary as could be 😩 Only Anglican shipmates of riper yeats are likely to be familiar with the Creed in question I suspect or at least used liturgically.
Firmly I believe and truly (Halton Holgate)
Bright the vision (Laus Deo)
The God of Abraham praise (Leoni)
In case anyone is interested the whole damn thing took close on 50 minutes! I am tempted to decline further requests from this place.
@Bishops Finger the hymn you mentioned in the 'cheese' tune comments "I am not worthy holy Lord" was sung quite a bit in my younger years. I have not played it now for a while but in (usually rural) churches it can appear at (usually BCP) Communion services if the old blue A&M is used. A nice slushy tune if rather inclined to invite slushy singing! Never come across it in any other standard book, it got cut out of the 1959 edition and EH never had it.
We have BCP Matins (without music) at Our Place at 930am on Sundays. The congregation usually just consists of FatherInCharge and Madam Sacristan, but they say the whole damn thing (including the Venite, the Psalm(s), the Benidicite in Lent, and the unctuous State Prayers).
I know from past experience that the Athanasian Creed would have been said today, assuming FatherInCharge used the BCP - Madam S is at Away this weekend! - as he mostly uses the Roman Catholic Offices when on his own.
Holy Holy Holy Lord God Almighty
Venite in full
Psalm 119 vv 105-144. would it ever end!
Te Deum
Benedictus
Now wait for this ...the Athanasian Creed sung to Anglican chant. The one in the (old) Cathedral Psalter was an awfully dull single chant and for 41 verses, no less, you need a double and a 'bright' one imho. They agreed but it was still as dreary as could be 😩 Only Anglican shipmates of riper yeats are likely to be familiar with the Creed in question I suspect or at least used liturgically.
Firmly I believe and truly (Halton Holgate)
Bright the vision (Laus Deo)
The God of Abraham praise (Leoni)
In case anyone is interested the whole damn thing took close on 50 minutes! I am tempted to decline further requests from this place.
Some years ago, our Associate Vicar threatened to preach the Athanasian Creed on Trinity Sunday, but let us off in the end!
Holy Holy Holy Lord God Almighty
Venite in full
Psalm 119 vv 105-144. would it ever end!
Te Deum
Benedictus
Now wait for this ...the Athanasian Creed sung to Anglican chant. The one in the (old) Cathedral Psalter was an awfully dull single chant and for 41 verses, no less, you need a double and a 'bright' one imho. They agreed but it was still as dreary as could be 😩 Only Anglican shipmates of riper yeats are likely to be familiar with the Creed in question I suspect or at least used liturgically.
Firmly I believe and truly (Halton Holgate)
Bright the vision (Laus Deo)
The God of Abraham praise (Leoni)
In case anyone is interested the whole damn thing took close on 50 minutes! I am tempted to decline further requests from this place.
Some years ago, our Associate Vicar threatened to preach the Athanasian Creed on Trinity Sunday, but let us off in the end!
A priest helping us out during our previous interregnum-but-one did just that - on Trinity Sunday, he simply read the Athanasian Creed from the BCP (with a brief word of explanation).
We had a couple of visitors that morning, but we never saw them again.
Comments
Had I been at Our Place yesterday, I would have tottered out at the highest speed possible immediately after Communion...
Drambuie? Or is that more a liqueur?
We only sing Shine Jesus and Meekness and Majesty.
We keep the latter for the entrance on Maundy Thursday because it references the foot washing that is part of our liturgy. I rather like it TBH. But I would happily never sing/play the other one again. We even repeat the chorus at the end with clapping and a capella until half way through when te instruments come crashing in.
Small World Moment - the composer's mum is our rector.
PS - hope you feel better soon!
The Ordination Mass was Saturday; five ordinands to the priesthood, and by our estimate 1,200+ in attendance. The music was phenomenally good. The church where the Mass was held had very good acoustics for music (not as good for speaking voices, I’m afraid). The choir from the cathedral sang, and along with the organ there was brass, tympani and (effectively used) cymbals. The congregation sang with gusto. The hymns were:
“Lord, You Give the Great Commission”/ABBOT’S LEIGH
“All People that on Earth Do Dwell”/OLD HUNDREDTH
“O God Beyond All Praising”/THAXTED
“All People . . .” was Vaughan-Williams’ “mess-up” written for Elizabeth II’s coronation. I’ll admit to having enjoyed there being a good metrical psalm sung to a Genevan psalm tune at the offertory.
And I think I’ve said here before that I really don’t like THAXTED as a hymn tune; it loses the beauty and energy of the “Jupiter, the Bringer of Jollity” when accommodations have to be made for a reasonable singing range. The brass and percussion did their best to make up for that problem, however, and my wife thought it was particularly beautiful.
The Mass of Thanksgiving (his first Mass) was yesterday (Sunday) afternoon. Maybe 300+ were present, and again the music and the congregational singing were very good. The hymns were:
“Creator Spirit, by Whose Aid”/LASST UNS ERFREUEN
Veni, Sancte Spiritus
“Oh Spirit, All-Embracing”/THAXTED (yes, again)
“Draw Us In the Spirit’s Tether/UNION SEMINARY
Salve Regina
“Holy God, We Praise Thy Name”/GROßER GOTT, WIR LOBEN DICH
In both services, the choirs sang additional music—Tallis and Arcadelt, among others, made appearances—during the laying on of hands, fraternal kiss and Communion.
All in all, some superb liturgy and music.
You're not alone - at least you were Praising God rather than Vowing to your Country.
The tune is OK-ish (although I agree with @Nick Tamen that it's best kept in its proper place), but it's forever tainted by association with that awful Tosh I vow to thee, my country...
The original in The Planets is very fine indeed. The problem with the hymn tune is that it shifts bits of the tune down an octave to make it singable - a bit like re-arranging the features on the Mona Lisa. It is completely beyond the pale.
Hang on - it's quite a nice place really, and people do live there.
I don't think I quite realised that, not being either a musician or a singer!
Still, ISWYM.
Indeed it is. I've been there, and the place is well worth a visit (especially the splendid church!).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaxted_Parish_Church
Interestingly, it was in the Diocese of Rochester from 1846 to 1877, despite being rather a long way from here...
🤣🤣
Well, each to their own. I used to be able to manage a few Morris dancing steps...
🕺
I do agree it can be a bit unwieldy given the range of the tune, but I think, if arranged properly, it can be really well done. The trick, I think, is to think of it as being only inspired by the melody from Jupiter so as to not be disappointed by the differences.
A bit like watching a film "based on" a book.
What do you mean, "mess-up"?!? That was David's favourite hymn, and what I came up the aisle to when we got married.
Re: Thaxted (the place rather than the tune) - I once gave David a book called The Field Guide to the English Country Parson, which was basically a mini-biography of slightly barmy vicars, of whom a disproportionate number seemed to have served in Thaxted.
A very good choice on your and David’s part!
It seems to be a frequent choice for the first hymn in hymnals, I've noticed. It was also one of our school hymns at the parochial Lutheran school I attended, so has nostalgia there, too.
The reason is suggested it is that it might follow "All People ..." alphabetically.
"Amazing grace" and "And can it be..." would precede it, surely?
Also "And now, O Father, mindful of the love" but I think that's a less likely selection, fond of it though I am.
However most hymnbooks aren't simply alphabetical, but only alphabetical within categories. Hence "Angel voices" fits into (say) "Worship and praise" while the two you mention come later, under (say) "Christian experience".
Of course the CofS book starts with metrical psalms!
Well, strictly speaking it's Psalms in general as of CH4, not just metrical ones - the third entry is Psalm 5 pointed for Anglican chant (I think), and the eighth is John Bell getting creative with antiphons around a chant version of Psalm 15.
I remember the old Metrical Psalms book, with the pages divided half-way down so that the tunes could be matched to the music.
I think CH3 (or possibly CH2) maintained that tradition for the Psalm section. I presume it also came in useful for playing a suitably Presbyterian (dour) version of One song to the tune of another.
I used to be a Presbyterian* - we're not all dour!
* I got better.
Whenever David and I were driving through certain bits of Scotland, the place names on some of the road signs would make us spontaneously burst into song - Kilmarnock, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Caithness, Stracathro ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQavW-elyo0
I don't think I've ever sung either hymn or tune, but they're certainly appropriate for a quiet, meditative Communion service.
However there is this: https://hymnary.org/page/fetch/VoP1883/182/low/251 - suspiciously like Tichfield which, as far as I know, has no cheese named after it!
At the risk of turning this into a Circus thread, here's a lugubrious hymn tune named Cheshire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzsufedDdM&list=RDUwzsufedDdM&start_radio=1
It could be worse. Anyone remember Kiri Te Kanawa singing 'World in Union' for the Rugby World Cup? Same tune, different timing.
Holy, holy, holy! Lord God almighty (Nicaea)
Bright the vision that delighted (Laus Deo)
Our Father (traditional Caribbean)
Immortal, invisible, God only wise (St Denio)
I, the Lord of sea and sky (Here I am)
No Shiny Song this week...
Love Divine (Blaenwern)
As the Deer Pants for the Water (Nystrom)
Crown Him with Many Crowns (Diademata)
Holy, holy, holy - Nicaea
Father of heaven, whose love profound - Rievaulx
Holy Spirit, come, confirm us - Laus Deo
O Lord my God, when I in awesome wonder - How Great Thou Art*
God of love, you freely give us - Blaenwern
We were rather a select bunch this morning - I'm not sure whether it was because tomorrow's a bank holiday and people are Away, or because it was pishing with rain ...
* I could very easily live without that one, but the congregation seemed to be giving it welly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heBlb0I9vGM&ab_channel=CatholicNurture
“Be still, for the presence of the Lord”.
“There is a Redeemer”.
“At your feet we fall”.
“Bright the vision that delighted” - Laud Deo.
“God is in his temple” - Groningen.
Trinity Sunday Mattins
Holy Holy Holy Lord God Almighty
Venite in full
Psalm 119 vv 105-144. would it ever end!
Te Deum
Benedictus
Now wait for this ...the Athanasian Creed sung to Anglican chant. The one in the (old) Cathedral Psalter was an awfully dull single chant and for 41 verses, no less, you need a double and a 'bright' one imho. They agreed but it was still as dreary as could be 😩 Only Anglican shipmates of riper yeats are likely to be familiar with the Creed in question I suspect or at least used liturgically.
Firmly I believe and truly (Halton Holgate)
Bright the vision (Laus Deo)
The God of Abraham praise (Leoni)
In case anyone is interested the whole damn thing took close on 50 minutes! I am tempted to decline further requests from this place.
I know from past experience that the Athanasian Creed would have been said today, assuming FatherInCharge used the BCP - Madam S is at Away this weekend! - as he mostly uses the Roman Catholic Offices when on his own.
Some years ago, our Associate Vicar threatened to preach the Athanasian Creed on Trinity Sunday, but let us off in the end!
A priest helping us out during our previous interregnum-but-one did just that - on Trinity Sunday, he simply read the Athanasian Creed from the BCP (with a brief word of explanation).
We had a couple of visitors that morning, but we never saw them again.