Re the verbal attack on the Pope. There are over 79 million Catholics in the USA and apparently thosr who voted voted 55% for Trump in 2024. Crude arithmetic suggests that was maybe about 8 to 10 million votes for Trump out of the 80 million he got. (I’m guessing a lot of that related to Roe v Wade.)
He won’t be standing in 2028, but I guess his attack has done some further damage to the GOP mid term prospects.
I note also that J D Vance is Catholic. I haven’t seen any comments from him re Trump’s anti-Catholic outburst. Has there been anything?
JD Vance made some comment about how the Pope should stick to moral issues. Which I am fairly sure is what the Pope had been doing
Vance isnt the first politician who would prefer it if religious leaders concentrated on matters of personal ethics and sterred clear of the public sphere.
JD Vance made some comment about how the Pope should stick to moral issues. Which I am fairly sure is what the Pope had been doing
Vance isnt the first politician who would prefer it if religious leaders concentrated on matters of personal ethics and sterred clear of the public sphere.
Heck, I've heard arguments that the "Christian" "Right"'s obsession with policing sex became predominant precisely to avoid attention to the incongruity of their support for slavery and, later, segregation.
JD Vance made some comment about how the Pope should stick to moral issues. Which I am fairly sure is what the Pope had been doing
Vance isnt the first politician who would prefer it if religious leaders concentrated on matters of personal ethics and sterred clear of the public sphere.
Ah but Hegseth is a political leader! (I know he shouldn’t be). Freedom of speech allows him to say anything.
Ah but the Pope is not American. Oh, bugger, so he is! But he’s in an international office and that obviously makes a difference. Not really American any more. Too global.
Re the verbal attack on the Pope. There are over 79 million Catholics in the USA and apparently thosr who voted voted 55% for Trump in 2024. Crude arithmetic suggests that was maybe about 8 to 10 million votes for Trump out of the 80 million he got. (I’m guessing a lot of that related to Roe v Wade.)
He won’t be standing in 2028, but I guess his attack has done some further damage to the GOP mid term prospects.
I think if you're the kind of Catholic who voted Republican to overturn Roe v Wade, there's a good chance you're not gonna ever gonna vote Democrat, regardless of what Trump is saying about the Pope.
JD Vance made some comment about how the Pope should stick to moral issues. Which I am fairly sure is what the Pope had been doing
Vance isnt the first politician who would prefer it if religious leaders concentrated on matters of personal ethics and sterred clear of the public sphere.
Henry II?
In the 1980s, the centre-left Canadian PM Trudeau introduced an economic austerity program, and after being criticized by the Catholic bishops, replied "They should stick to handing out Communion." I don't think that stayed in the news for more than a few days.
I think if you're the kind of Catholic who voted Republican to overturn Roe v Wade, there's a good chance you're never gonna vote Democratic, regardless of what Trump is saying about the Pope.
Bishop Mariann Budde was on CNN re Trump and the Pope. Also J D Vance said he thought the Pope should be careful in his theology(!). Yes really.
Raphael Warnock was on as well, talking about how fascists urge religious leaders to “stay in their lanes”.
Not sure I can get a link to it yet, nor do I want to oversimplify by summary but it was a very good segment.
(Bishop Budde got into hot water because of her sermon at Washington Cathedral just before Trump's second inauguration. She talked about mercy. Got flak from Trump and the loyalists, amounting to “inappropriate on the day, stay in your lane” but a lot of support from Christians across the denominations and the world. I must say I really rate her.)
Oh I’m sure some of that 55% will stay loyal to Trump regardless. That’s in the nature of MAGAism.
But when the numbers come in I wouldn’t be surprised to see Catholic support significantly down in the mid-terms.
The real problem for Trump is he gets trapped in the extremism of his own rhetoric. Plus he always doubles down. There was quite an easy way of producing a respectful response but his ego always gets in the way of it.
Oh I’m sure some of that 55% will stay loyal to Trump regardless. That’s in the nature of MAGAism.
But when the numbers come in I wouldn’t be surprised to see Catholic support significantly down in the mid-terms.
The real problem for Trump is he gets trapped in the extremism of his own rhetoric. Plus he always doubles down. There was quite an easy way of producing a respectful response but his ego always gets in the way of it.
Trump seems to be perpetually in the grip of the shower arguments in his own head.
I think if you're the kind of Catholic who voted Republican to overturn Roe v Wade, there's a good chance you're not gonna ever gonna vote Democrat, regardless of what Trump is saying about the Pope.
If a bunch of them sit the next election out, that will already be a problem for the Republican party.
It’s important not to collapse the Roman Catholic vote into MAGA. National data from 2024 shows that a substantial share of Roman Catholics voted for Harris, and Roman Catholics have a long history of supporting Democratic candidates, especially on economic and social‑justice grounds. Roe v. Wade is only one factor shaping Roman Catholic political behavior, and it has never been the sole determinant. If Democrats articulate a platform that focuses on social teaching themes—human dignity, workers’ rights, immigration, poverty, and the common good—they are likely to draw many Roman Catholics who don’t see themselves reflected in the current Republican coalition.
The major issue that Trump focused on in 2024 was affordability. However, his presidency broke the social contract he had developed with the majority of his voters with imposing illegal tariffs and now the war. It will be a very hard slog for the Republicans to heal that break with the American public both in the mid-terms and then the general election. I would argue the pocket book of a Roman Catholic voter will speak larger than their feelings about the freedom reproductive choice.
Re Bishop Mariann Budde and CNN. I googled and found a link to Facebook which covers the final two minutes of the interview. I won’t provide the link but it’s easy to get to if you’re comfortable with that route. She talks about moral courage. It’s not the whole interview but it’s good.
The major issue that Trump focused on in 2024 was affordability. However, his presidency broke the social contract he had developed with the majority of his voters with imposing illegal tariffs and now the war. It will be a very hard slog for the Republicans to heal that break with the American public both in the mid-terms and then the general election. I would argue the pocket book of a Roman Catholic voter will speak larger than their feelings about the freedom reproductive choice.
Okay, but for these Catholic voters whose pivotal issue is affordability, their main concern in November is going to be whether or not they still think Trump is crashing the economy. Not outrage over his insults against the Leo XIV.
Basically, for a Catholic's vote to be in play on religious grounds, he'd have to be someone who was cool with Trump, tariffs, wars and all, up until April 4th, but then got supremely alienated by a post calling the Pope "soft on crime".
The BBC has an article up today with a headline about how Trump's spat with Leo is "costing him valuable support", but most of the quotes come from two conservative Catholics: Bishop Strickland, who spoke at a CPAC event in 2024, and a guy named Peter Wolfgang, who heads something called The Family Institute Of Connecticut. Both men seem pretty strongly opposed to the war against Iran, though Wolfgang does qualify it by saying that the Pope is not above criticism.
Basically, for a Catholic's vote to be in play on religious grounds, he'd have to be someone who was cool with Trump, tariffs, wars and all, up until April 4th...
Sorry. April 12th was the date of that Truth Social.
For lack of a better place to ask, without starting a new thread, is there much discussion in the UK whether the King should call off his planned visit to the US?
I don't know if there's been a lot of discussion, but Starmer is on record as saying that the visit should go ahead. His rationale appears to be that good US-UK relations ought to be maintained, as they transcend the periods of office of leaders.
The Greens and Liberal Democrats want the visit to be cancelled - I'm not sure what Reform or the increasingly-irrelevant Tories think.
The King must be dreading his forthcoming ordeal. After all, he's elderly, and not in perfect health - a diplomatic illness, or being forbidden by his doctors to fly, are possibilities...
Basically, for a Catholic's vote to be in play on religious grounds, he'd have to be someone who was cool with Trump, tariffs, wars and all, up until April 4th, but then got supremely alienated by a post calling the Pope "soft on crime".
Not necessarily. You could have someone who has been getting more and more frustrated with Trump, and this is just the last straw. That seems to me a rather likely scenario, to tell the truth.
Comments
True. All the ones I’ve read make the same point. I think Jim Wallis’s quote is original, making the same point in a different way.
He won’t be standing in 2028, but I guess his attack has done some further damage to the GOP mid term prospects.
I note also that J D Vance is Catholic. I haven’t seen any comments from him re Trump’s anti-Catholic outburst. Has there been anything?
Vance isnt the first politician who would prefer it if religious leaders concentrated on matters of personal ethics and sterred clear of the public sphere.
Heck, I've heard arguments that the "Christian" "Right"'s obsession with policing sex became predominant precisely to avoid attention to the incongruity of their support for slavery and, later, segregation.
Henry II?
Ah but the Pope is not American. Oh, bugger, so he is! But he’s in an international office and that obviously makes a difference. Not really American any more. Too global.
I think if you're the kind of Catholic who voted Republican to overturn Roe v Wade, there's a good chance you're not gonna ever gonna vote Democrat, regardless of what Trump is saying about the Pope.
In the 1980s, the centre-left Canadian PM Trudeau introduced an economic austerity program, and after being criticized by the Catholic bishops, replied "They should stick to handing out Communion." I don't think that stayed in the news for more than a few days.
Raphael Warnock was on as well, talking about how fascists urge religious leaders to “stay in their lanes”.
Not sure I can get a link to it yet, nor do I want to oversimplify by summary but it was a very good segment.
(Bishop Budde got into hot water because of her sermon at Washington Cathedral just before Trump's second inauguration. She talked about mercy. Got flak from Trump and the loyalists, amounting to “inappropriate on the day, stay in your lane” but a lot of support from Christians across the denominations and the world. I must say I really rate her.)
Oh I’m sure some of that 55% will stay loyal to Trump regardless. That’s in the nature of MAGAism.
But when the numbers come in I wouldn’t be surprised to see Catholic support significantly down in the mid-terms.
The real problem for Trump is he gets trapped in the extremism of his own rhetoric. Plus he always doubles down. There was quite an easy way of producing a respectful response but his ego always gets in the way of it.
Trump seems to be perpetually in the grip of the shower arguments in his own head.
AFF
The major issue that Trump focused on in 2024 was affordability. However, his presidency broke the social contract he had developed with the majority of his voters with imposing illegal tariffs and now the war. It will be a very hard slog for the Republicans to heal that break with the American public both in the mid-terms and then the general election. I would argue the pocket book of a Roman Catholic voter will speak larger than their feelings about the freedom reproductive choice.
Okay, but for these Catholic voters whose pivotal issue is affordability, their main concern in November is going to be whether or not they still think Trump is crashing the economy. Not outrage over his insults against the Leo XIV.
Basically, for a Catholic's vote to be in play on religious grounds, he'd have to be someone who was cool with Trump, tariffs, wars and all, up until April 4th, but then got supremely alienated by a post calling the Pope "soft on crime".
Sorry. April 12th was the date of that Truth Social.
The Greens and Liberal Democrats want the visit to be cancelled - I'm not sure what Reform or the increasingly-irrelevant Tories think.
The King must be dreading his forthcoming ordeal. After all, he's elderly, and not in perfect health - a diplomatic illness, or being forbidden by his doctors to fly, are possibilities...
Not necessarily. You could have someone who has been getting more and more frustrated with Trump, and this is just the last straw. That seems to me a rather likely scenario, to tell the truth.