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Fucking Guns

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  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re sale of guns increasing after shootings:

    Yes. Example: After the Colorado theater shooting years ago--the one where the shooter dressed as a "Batman" character*--gun sales went up. Shooting back in a darkened theater would likely be disastrous. And cops entering the darkened theater wouldn't necessarily know who the original shooter was, so more disaster.

    I don't know how much of the buying was fear and self-defense. There is a conservative streak in Colorado culture, plus a lot of military folks and their families. May have had an effect.

    *I'm purposely not naming the character. Don't want that scary picture stuck in anyone's mind!
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Re sale of guns increasing after shootings:

    Yes. Example: After the Colorado theater shooting years ago--the one where the shooter dressed as a "Batman" character*--gun sales went up. Shooting back in a darkened theater would likely be disastrous. And cops entering the darkened theater wouldn't necessarily know who the original shooter was, so more disaster.

    I don't know how much of the buying was fear and self-defense. There is a conservative streak in Colorado culture, plus a lot of military folks and their families. May have had an effect.

    *I'm purposely not naming the character. Don't want that scary picture stuck in anyone's mind!

    It almost seems not so much a matter of self-defense, as sexual. Shootings turn some people on. That makes them want to buy more guns.
  • NicoleMR wrote: »
    There has been a shooting in Alabama too, 10 injured, some critically, at a high school football game.

    That was listed as Aug. 30, and counted n that day's stats.
  • IS IT TIME YET? Sunday Sept. 1, 2019

    US Deaths by gun violence Saturday Aug. 31, 2019
    25
    US Injuries by gun violence Saturday Aug. 31, 2019
    74
    Incidents in 21 states*
    *Does not include shootings with no casualties

    DAYS SINCE LAST MASS SHOOTING**: 0
    **4 or more deaths/injuries to victims

    Information courtesy of GunViolenceArchive.org
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    mt--
    mousethief wrote: »

    It almost seems not so much a matter of self-defense, as sexual. Shootings turn some people on. That makes them want to buy more guns.

    Actual shootings, or holding/shooting a gun oneself*, or both?

    Thx.

    *Occurs to me that gun owning can be a "to have and to hold" relationship, which might be one reason for having and keeping guns.
  • It is my opinion, and not based on any research but just an opinion, that some people are turned on by hearing about violence caused by others.

    I do have personal experience with one guy -- a housemate -- who was in Vietnam and said that killing another human being was the greatest power rush he had ever felt. I take that back, I heard that from TWO people, the other one a fellow panelist at a conference for Christian writers!
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    When I was a teacher and when my own children were young I didn’t let them play with guns or make pretend guns, or play at shooting each other.

    I told them “Play is practice and we don’t practice killing.” The culture in my house and classroom was strictly anti gun.

  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Other than going target shooting once with adults, the only time IIRC I played with a gun was with a squirt gun. (Shoots water, for anyone unfamiliar.) It was fun, though I think I may have had mixed feelings.

    If I had kids and let them have squirt guns, they'd only get ones that aren't very gun-looking--animals, etc. And only use them in neighborhood yards. No sense triggering cops, other people with guns, or people who aren't familiar with squirt guns.
  • edited September 2019
    I remember a teacher doing that (banning lego guns I think) when I was about age 6 or 7, and all us boys running round using our fingers as guns, arms as spitfire wings etc, as normal. I was obsessed with war - lots of model kits, endless drawings of Messerschmitts going down in flames, tanks, guns, the lot. I was not encouraged in all this by parents - it just seems natural in many if not most small boys. I grew out of it in my teens.

    Ohher - thanks for these posts. I read them and don't know what to say.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    It means changing our culture. I have been looking at TV schedules for weeks now, looking for something entertaining to watch in the odd free evening. I used to complain about all the brain-dead sitcoms; then switched my ire to "reality" TV, but now? Granted, I have a low-budget cable subscription, but the crime dramas are vastly outnumbering everything else. You can scarcely turn the TV on through umpty-leven channels without viewing gun violence.

    It means challenging the myth of redemptive violence.

    It means changing our language. I just this minute almost typed, "It means shooting down the myth of . . . " instead of "changing the myth of the Lone Hero Good Guy Slaughtering All the Bad Guys to Solve All the Problems." It means not talking about "fighting" for everything in our political discourse, but "working" for it instead. It means we stop claiming we're "fighting" our diabetes, our cancer, our heart disease, our assorted other ills, instead of saying we're "treating" these. It means demanding that our media stop presenting complex multifaceted issues as one side "fighting" some other.

    It means we start requiring that people who wish to own guns be required to purchase liability policies starting at $100,000. One per firearm. Can't show proof of insurance for the WWI Luger Gramps passed down to you? You get every firearm you own confiscated.

    It means limiting the amounts of ammo you can legally store in your residence(s).

    It means you submit to annual (at least) inspections of your storage, collections, ammo stockpiles, etc. It means you show up for 2 hours minimum of monthly target practice at a registered gun range if you want to own firearms.

    It means every ownership transfer of every firearm gets registered, and a background check is performed with every transfer.

    It means that police who retire and military personnel who separate from their services surrender their service weapons, and these surrenders are registered.

    First and foremost it means banning assault weapons and getting a generous buy-back scheme happening in conjunction with a limited amnesty period.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    .

    First and foremost it means banning assault weapons and getting a generous buy-back scheme happening in conjunction with a limited amnesty period.

    Can't be said enough. I'm a firm believe in making concrete changes first and social attitudes will follow. It takes too long the other way.
    mousethief wrote: »
    It is my opinion, and not based on any research but just an opinion, that some people are turned on by hearing about violence caused by others.
    I think you're right. The last time we went to the movies, we had to sit through about ten trailers and the first thing shown in almost all of them was a big close up of a big gun. Not the actors or the tanks or some building exploding, but a really big gun. We don't need to do the research the movie marketers have done it for us.

  • US GUN VIOLENCE MONTHLY REPORT

    AUGUST 2019 (8/8-8/31 inclusive)

    Deaths: 433, including 18 children under 12.
    Injuries: 1,173

    Info courtesy of Gun Violence Archive.org
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    I wonder what would happen if the die hard proponents of the Second Amendment were only allowed to have the guns of the period when the Amendment was written? Just a thought. Really, I just want all the guns to be gone.
  • Hmmm. Flintlock pistols and muskets? That sounds like an idea. Highly inaccurate, inefficient, and (having no doubt deteriorated in the nearly 2.5 centuries since) potentially inoperable. I like it. (I went with the date of ratification (1791), btw.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host, Glory
    I believe in the rights of hunters (my father and grandfather provided our holiday wildfowl for many years; my brother lives in Alaska, where bringing in one's annual moose is pretty much an imperative for most non-vegetarian families) and in the right to self-defense. (I once used a borrowed handgun to scare off a would-be rapist who broke into my apartment in the middle of the night: the simple act and sound of cocking it was enough to send him bolting down the hall, down the stairs, down the alley. I would have been about the sixth victim in that building alone.)

    But that does not preclude believing that everyone with a firearm of any kind must be trained properly to use and store it safely. Real hunters don't use combat-style semi-automatic rifles. And no one should be able to purchase a firearm without going through a proper background check. No. One.

  • New month, new format:

    US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/2/19
    Statistics for 9/1/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 43
    States + DC where incidents occurred: 17 (CA, CT, GA, IL, IN, KS, MD, MI, MO, NC, OH, OR, PA, SC, TN, VA, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 1 in Toledo, OH: 4 injured
    Total deaths: 20
    Total injuries: 26
    Children under 12 killed: 0
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.

  • Thanks for your work on this, @Ohher .
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    I believe in the rights of hunters (my father and grandfather provided our holiday wildfowl for many years; my brother lives in Alaska, where bringing in one's annual moose is pretty much an imperative for most non-vegetarian families) and in the right to self-defense. (I once used a borrowed handgun to scare off a would-be rapist who broke into my apartment in the middle of the night: the simple act and sound of cocking it was enough to send him bolting down the hall, down the stairs, down the alley. I would have been about the sixth victim in that building alone.)

    But that does not preclude believing that everyone with a firearm of any kind must be trained properly to use and store it safely. Real hunters don't use combat-style semi-automatic rifles. And no one should be able to purchase a firearm without going through a proper background check. No. One.

    I think our Gun laws allow for these sorts of activities. My best mate's mate, who I follow on facebook, is a gun nut. He is also a collector, and he has various different licenses for each of the guns he owns. He recently bought an antique pistol and only has a license for the gun itself. He can't have ammo (if you could get it) and he can't even shoot it at a gun range. He can collect it. That's it. This bloke mainly uses his gun as a sporting shooter at gun ranges, but you can get licenses to hunt also, but they are limited in scope for conservation reasons. Please note that my knowledge of gun laws comes from conversations in pubs between two blokes, one of whom is scared of guns, and the other who gave up his gun license in the 1980's, when he was diagnosed as bi-polar.

    In Australia, I don't think self-defence is a valid reason to own a gun, but I'm not sure. My opinion is that the community generally does not consider self-defence a valid reason. However, Australia is not the United States. I think this self-defence attitude is one of the major differences between Australians and Americans, and I explicitly do not judge.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Self-defence has never been a valid reason to have a gun in the UK either, ever since our first significant gun laws a century back.
  • Good grief; I do not know WHEN to collect these stats so they come close to reflecting reality.
    New month, new format:

    US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/2/19
    CORRECTIONS IN BOLD
    Statistics for 9/1/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 43 135
    States + DC where incidents occurred: 17 35 (AL, AK, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, ID, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA, MD, MI, MN, MS, MO, NV, NJ, NY,, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 1 4: AL (7 injured); CT (4 injured); OH: 4 injured; NC (4 injured)
    Total deaths: 20 46
    Total injuries: 26 95
    Children under 12 killed: 0 1, age 7
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/3/19
    Statistics for 9/2/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 110
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 36 (AL, AZ, CA, CO, FL, GA, ID, IL, IN, KY, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NH, NJ, NY, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, TN, VT, TX, VA, WV, WI, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 3 (AL, 5 dead; IL, 4 injured; NC, 2 dead, 2 injured)
    Total deaths: 38
    Total injuries: 81
    Children under 12 killed: 3, ages 0, 5, and 6
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • @Ohher does that include suicides?
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host, Glory
    Kyrie eleison.
  • And today a 14 year old massacred his family in Alabama. Somehow, we still have to process this and respond like humans.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host, Glory
    It's a struggle, @Stercus Tauri.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    @Ohher does that include suicides?

    Yes, it does.
  • Apparently, and correct me if I've got it wrong please, but the American supreme court has been stacked with maniacs consistently. And are responsible for a good measure of your gun massacre mess. Along with a number of other pieces of legal stupidity.

    It took Americans a civil war to stop people ownership. Don't know what that means for this, what form of violence be wrought? I'm recalling the Gandhi movie scene where the people walked up to the British soldiers who clubbed their heads. Piles of fractured head people. Might a people's invasion of courts who say "some guns good, more guns better" be required? What form of protest beyond wringing hands, feeling sad, empty prayers (prayers without works are nothing), proposals of things your country has rejected consistently? Must you revise your governance or your constitution, and what will force it?
  • I think it is mendacious hyperbole to say that the American Supreme Court has been stacked with maniacs consistently. You still have to be a reasonable jurist to get on that Heritage Foundation list Trump uses.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/4/19
    Statistics for 9/3/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 84
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 30 (AL, AR, AZ, CA, DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, KY, LA, MD, MA, MI, MO, NJ, NY, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, RI, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA, WI, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 0
    Total deaths: 27
    Total injuries: 52
    Children under 12 killed: 0
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/5/19
    Statistics for 9/4/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 140
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 30 (AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, NJ, NY, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, TN, TX, UT, WA, WI, WV, WY, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 2 (FL 4 injured; LA 2 dead, 2 injured)
    Total deaths: 21
    Total injuries: 50
    Children under 12 killed: 1, age 6
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/6/19

    Statistics for 9/5/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 62
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 29 (AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, KY, LA, MD, MA, MS, MO, NJ, NY, NC, OH, OK, PA, RI, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 2 (FL 4 injured; LA 2 dead, 2 injured)
    Total deaths: 22
    Total injuries: 30
    Children under 12 killed: 1, age 2
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/6/19
    CORRECTION
    Statistics for 9/5/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 62
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 29 (AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, KY, LA, MD, MA, MS, MO, NJ, NY, NC, OH, OK, PA, RI, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties) 0
    Total deaths: 22
    Total injuries: 30
    Children under 12 killed: 1, age 2
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/7/19

    Statistics for 9/6/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 100
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 30 (AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, IL, IN, IA, KY, LA, MD, MI, MO, NV, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OH, OK, PA, SC, TN, TX, WV, WI, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 0
    Total deaths: 31
    Total injuries: 57
    Children under 12 killed: 0
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • Imagine if 31 Americans were killed in Iraq and 57 injured yesterday.
  • Imagine if 5 Americans died from vaping in the last couple of days. Oh, wait . . . they did. Almost immediately, there are cries of Emergency!! Public Health Crisis!! Ban e-cigarettes immediately!!

    31 people die from gunshots, and . . . <crickets> . . .
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    The Founders didn't have the foresight to declare vaping a right.
    (sarcasm)
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/8/19

    Statistics for 9/7/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 102
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 29 (AL, AR, CA, CT, FL, GA, IL, IN, KY, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, NJ, NY, NC, OH, OK, PA, TN, TX, VA, WA, WI, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 1 (NC)
    Total deaths: 36
    Total injuries: 67
    Children under 12 killed: 2; 1 age 5, 1 age 6
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    Imagine if 5 Americans died from vaping in the last couple of days. Oh, wait . . . they did. Almost immediately, there are cries of Emergency!! Public Health Crisis!! Ban e-cigarettes immediately!!

    31 people die from gunshots, and . . . <crickets> . . .

    yeah. I totally missed that comparison.
  • The one cause of death which close to guns in terms of total numbers is car crash deaths in America https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    One of the many things I don't understand, from reading American novels, is how worried folk are about under age drinking, while being so relaxed about gun ownership.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host, Glory
    The one cause of death which close to guns in terms of total numbers is car crash deaths in America https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm
    And car crash deaths have been declining (generally speaking) for years, whilst gun deaths are steadily climbing.

  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    And car crash deaths have been declining (generally speaking) for years, whilst gun deaths are steadily climbing.

    "Steadily climbing" doesn't seem to be an accurate description of the data.
    Pew Research graph here. Gun suicides have been climbing steadily for the last decade or so; Gun murders stepped up around 2015.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/9/19

    Statistics for 9/8/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 122
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 33 (AL, AZ, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, HI, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, LA, MD, MI, MN, MO, NE, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OH, OK, PA, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV, WI, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 1 (SC)
    Total deaths: 41
    Total injuries: 91
    Children under 12 killed: 0
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/10/19

    Statistics for 9/9/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 94
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 32 (AL, AZ, AR, CA, CO, FL, GA, IL, IN, IA, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OH, OK, PA, SC, TN, TX, UT, WA, WV, WI, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 0
    Total deaths: 29
    Total injuries: 44
    Children under 12 killed: 0
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • US SHOOTINGS REPORT 9/11/19

    Statistics for 9/10/2019
    Total US shooting incidents: 105
    # States + DC where incidents occurred: 33 (AL, AZ, AR, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, LA, MD, MN, MS, MO, NV, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OH, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA, WV, DC)
    Total mass shootings (4 or more casualties): 1 (IL, 4 injured)
    Total deaths: 26
    Total injuries: 71
    Children under 12 killed: 0
    Info courtesy of GunViolence Archive.org.
    Any errors mine.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host, Glory
    I find that my eyes go first to the "Children under 12 killed" line; I heave a sigh of relief when it's 0. What have we become?

    As always, Ohher, thank you for doing this.

  • I see the WH is getting behind bans on flavored vaping.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    I see the WH is getting behind bans on flavored vaping.
    You can be sure this is not out of concern for the health of our youth. He must have been snubbed by the tobacco lobby.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    I did wonder about that. T doesn't drink at all, due to a promise to the brother he lost to alcoholism. I wonder what he feels about smoking, pot, etc.?
  • If I were you, I wouldn't waste effort into inquiring into 45's "feelings." I'd pay attention to the fact that a small number of deaths related to vaping has stirred the administration into frenzied demands for immediate action, while dozens of deaths and injuries every. single. day. from gun violence aren't even mentioned.
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